[OLD] UGw Threshold

[Citrus-God]

Yeah, thanks to you all... While looking through my binder I found another card that might be very good in the Ichorid and Goblins matchup: Duelling Grounds. It's not that narrow as eg. Tormod's Crypt and really shines in the Goblins Matchup and will probably therefore make it into my sideboard. The casting cost is a little restricitve but I think that you can just about stall Ichorid with early blockers and countermagic until you can bring it down.

That's kinda a good idea, but that would mean they Dread Return and then stuff happens. But honestly, that card serious warrants some testing.

Is that even a safe sideboard? I don't think I'd want to devote so much to one(ish) matchup(s) unless the metagame was really saturated with Ichorid and grave-based decks.

Leyline of Singularity is definitely another option, and probably better than Void for a UGW deck. Now, I don't really play UGW Thresh so I won't test it (and I don't know the answer other than, perhaps, theoretically), but I wonder how effective it is more generally speaking? Have you tried it yourself?

Actually, I tried the 4 Leyline of the Void, 2 Leyline of Singularity in Vintage with the rise of Ichorid and Flash everywhere. I think it's amazing.



@georgjorge: Other options are Engineered Explosives, Ray of Revelation, Naturalize, Serenity, and more stuff.

[thefreakaccident]

I didn't know whether to post this in the UGB varient thread or this one... I went with this one.

I have been running a 4 color build that has been doing wonders for me personally, and I will be attending a tourney with it tomorrow night... I was wondering if you guys could give any decent advice.

remember, I am hellbent on keeping it 4 color

lands//18
4 flooded strand
3 polluted delta
4 tropical island
2 tundra
2 underground sea
1 island
1 plains
1 swamp

creatures//13
4 dark confidant
4 tarmogoyf
4 nimble mongoose
1 mystic enforcer

spells//29
4 force of will
2 daze
3 counterspell
4 brainstorm
4 portent
4 serum visions
3 stifle
4 swords to plowshares
2 ghastly demise

sideboard//
4 meddling mage
4 engineered plague
4 krosan grip
3 pithing needle

thanks in advance fr any quick suggestions before the tourney!

[Mister Agent]

I didn't know whether to post this in the UGB varient thread or this one... I went with this one.

I have been running a 4 color build that has been doing wonders for me personally, and I will be attending a tourney with it tomorrow night... I was wondering if you guys could give any decent advice.

remember, I am hellbent on keeping it 4 color

lands//18
4 flooded strand
3 polluted delta
4 tropical island
2 tundra
2 underground sea
1 island
1 plains
1 swamp

creatures//13
4 dark confidant
4 tarmogoyf
4 nimble mongoose
1 mystic enforcer

spells//29
4 force of will
2 daze
3 counterspell
4 brainstorm
4 portent
4 serum visions
3 stifle
4 swords to plowshares
2 ghastly demise

sideboard//
4 meddling mage
4 engineered plague
4 krosan grip
3 pithing needle

thanks in advance fr any quick suggestions before the tourney!

I say the deck looks standard in my eye. 4 Krosan grips seem a bit much in my opinion I would possibly cut one or two for 2 engineered explosives for any random aggro deck you might face and they can be relevant in the mirror but since your playing in san diego it might not even be that necassary to run EE I personally don't know though. ;) They are just minor suggestions and the fact that i think EE is pretty awesome.

[thefreakaccident]

thanks kev., you are an EE nut... lol jk.

no, I might just do that; seeing as I can set it anywhere between 0-4... could be sweet!

I will run it as a 2 of, I think krosan grip is kinda important.... there are a lot of blue decks and the only cards boarded in against this deck are artifacts/enchantments anyways... that was my original reasoning.

thanks for the advice, I think I will do just that (maybe tweak the numbers to fix 2 EE and 3 grip).

[Mister Agent]

thanks kev., you are an EE nut... lol jk.

no, I might just do that; seeing as I can set it anywhere between 0-4... could be sweet!

I will run it as a 2 of, I think krosan grip is kinda important.... there are a lot of blue decks and the only cards boarded in against this deck are artifacts/enchantments anyways... that was my original reasoning.

thanks for the advice, I think I will do just that (maybe tweak the numbers to fix 2 EE and 3 grip).

Your probably right about me being a EE nut haha considering i run 4 in AFS. Yeah setting your explosives from 0-4 seems like a deed jr. pretty much. I do think your thresh 4c deck is pretty standard though seems to have the right amount of cantrips and threats. Well don't get me wrong but i think Krosan Grips are awesome but i think 3 is good enough besides you have ee as well which sweeps anything.

[Solpugid]

Thefreakaccident, that list looks pretty good. I ran stifle maindeck as a three-of a while ago, though, and it didn't do enough for me. So I dropped it to 2 and it still didn't feel right. Eventually I put it in my sideboard in place of pithing needles, which I might suggest depending on your meta.

In their place maindeck I would add 2 duress and 1 daze. Daze really should be a 3-of, even if you have to replace a counterspell with one, just because you want to see it early.

My only other concern is the basic lands. Are they needed? I don't see a lot of wasteland around, so unless there is a substantial amount of goblins in your area I'm not so sure you wouldn't be better off with another underground sea or another tundra. Or both. Just something to consider. Good luck with your tournament.

Oh right, and the sideboard. Krosan grip is great, no doubt, but I'm not sure you need 4. I've been running 2 or 3 and they feel really good. Is it possible to drop one or two, and maybe a mage, for a couple of tormod's crypts? The graveyard is getter more and more important with stuff like ichorid and cephalid breakfast running around. Ok, I'm done. Again, good luck.

[Citrus-God]

// Tempo Grow
// Lands 18
4 Wasteland
2 Windswept Heath
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Tropical Island


// Creatures 12
4 Meddling Mage
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf


// Spells 30
4 Brainstorm
4 Opt
4 Mental Note
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Engineered Explosves


// Sideboard 15
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Pithing Needle
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Chill
2 Hydroblast
3 Ray of Revelation

I'm still testing this deck. So far, I think EE and Jotun Grunts are amazing. The LD buy time for you to bash face, as well as time to get from neutral position, to dominant position.

I also like the Ray of Revelations. They help you out against 43 Land, which is a hell match up. They're also decent against Moat.Dec too.

[Kronicler]

Why is opt played over Sleight of Hand? The improved card selection seems more important than the instant speed.

Kronicler

[Citrus-God]

Why is opt played over Sleight of Hand? The improved card selection seems more important than the instant speed.

Kronicler

First turn Stifle or EOT Opt ftw? Personally, I think Opt warrants a slot here.

[thefreakaccident]

you need sorceries in the deck to fuel your own tarmogoyf... right now you have...
creature
land
artifact (2 of)
instant

ideally you don't want your creatures going to the yard, and always finding the explosives can be an issue (unless you have my luck).

I never liked mental note, it never really gives you card selection and you can never safely play it when you haven't cantripped previously (mill the cards you actually want).

[Citrus-God]

you need sorceries in the deck to fuel your own tarmogoyf... right now you have...
creature
land
artifact (2 of)
instant

ideally you don't want your creatures going to the yard, and always finding the explosives can be an issue (unless you have my luck).

I never liked mental note, it never really gives you card selection and you can never safely play it when you haven't cantripped previously (mill the cards you actually want).

I didnt see Sorceries in my deck... shame on me...


// Lands 18
6 Fetchlands
4 Tundra
4 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland


// Creatures 11
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Meddling Mage
3 Jotun Grunt


// Spells 31
4 Brainstorm
4 Portent
4 Opt
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Spell Snare


Does this look alright?

[Brushwagg]

Umm where's the Goose? Seriously, I've been able to ride a first turn Goose all the way many times. I think the trade off of 1 power and toughness is worth the untargetability.

@The mana base: WOW you scoop it up to Wasteland. I'm not sure if adding in Wastland yourself is worth the weakened mana base for the splashes. U/G can get away with it because it's not supporting a 3rd color and being cut off from it can really suck.

[Citrus-God]

Umm where's the Goose? Seriously, I've been able to ride a first turn Goose all the way many times. I think the trade off of 1 power and toughness is worth the untargetability.

I'm running Grunts because he actually busts a cap in Tarmogoyfs, unlike Geese. I also dont run Geese due to lack of room.

@The mana base: WOW you scoop it up to Wasteland. I'm not sure if adding in Wastland yourself is worth the weakened mana base for the splashes. U/G can get away with it because it's not supporting a 3rd color and being cut off from it can really suck.

UGr got away with it, and it made Top 8. I was confident it could do the same for me as well.

Also, as for Wasteland, thats what Stifles are for. They're simply amazing. I'm so happy I'm playing Bird Shit right now.

[Adan]

@The mana base: WOW you scoop it up to Wasteland. I'm not sure if adding in Wastland yourself is worth the weakened mana base for the splashes. U/G can get away with it because it's not supporting a 3rd color and being cut off from it can really suck.

He won't scoop to Wasteland. Not if he can actually play the deck. A good player can always play around Wasteland.

And, I also find it amusing when player waste my land when I opened with: Land, Portent. Portent increases the cardquality a lot. Starting with 7 handcards plu speeking the next 3...that would make 10 cards. 10 Cards are approximatley 15% of your whole deck. the chance that you won't find a second land decreases by playing Portent...

So, a player that can actually play his NQG won't lose to Wasteland.
Anyways, NQG never really needed non-Island manasources.
And you mustn't run non-Island manasources when playing with Counterbalance! Even if you play 1 random forest, it won't allow you to drop a 2nd Turn Counterbalance and often means auto-mulligan to 6 when you got it in your opening hand. You CAn drop 1st Turn Mongoose obv. but then you can't Daze (it's annoying, especially when you are running 4 Dazes for the purpose of dazing 1st Turn).

@ UG Thresh:

It looks quite interesting, but I actually don't see a reason to play without a Splash.

[Brushwagg]

He won't scoop to Wasteland. Not if he can actually play the deck. A good player can always play around Wasteland.

HUH? The deck is running a total of 8 lands that produce colored mana. Getting cut off from one of those colors is really easy. While there is Stifle to help out, I still wounldn't run NQG (yes I've played UGR/UGW/UGB/UG) without basics and I think I know what I'm doing.

@ UG Thresh:

It looks quite interesting, but I actually don't see a reason to play without a Splash.

Being able to play Wasteland and not having to weaken your own. Plus the splash cards are replaced with more counters and what not. Worth playtesting at least.

UGr got away with it, and it made Top 8. I was confident it could do the same for me as well.

I still haven't found what they played aganist or who. I think it was a Combo Gro filled meta where it would be fine. But I think if there was a good showing Landstill or Goblins there I think this would have went differently.

[Adan]

I still would not run non-Island Lands.

If you master to play play the Catrips well, no one will cut you from any colors with 1 oder 2 Wastelands.

Somehow, I would simply play the Hatfields' list with white instead of red and without that basic Forest:

// Lands
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [RAV] Island
4 [A] Tropical Island
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [B] Volcanic Island -> Tundra
1 [RAV] Forest
3 [ON] Wooded Foothills -> Windsweapt Heath

// Creatures
4 [OD] Nimble Mongoose
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
2 [JU] Fledgling Dragon -> Mystic Enforcer

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [IA] Portent
3 [SOK] Pithing Needle -> cut down to 2, 3 are too much
2 [FD] Serum Visions -> increase to 3, CQ is important
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [OD] Predict
4 [A] Lightning Bolt -> Swords to Ploshares
2 [MM] Counterspell -> Counterbalance

So we end up with this (after remodeling the manabase):

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [RAV] Island
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [B] Tundra
4 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
2 [OD] Mystic Enforcer
4 [OD] Nimble Mongoose
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
4 [IA] Portent
2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
3 [FD] Serum Visions
2 [CS] Counterbalance
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [OD] Predict

CB Engine is not THAT importent, you usually don't want the 3rd Counterbalance in several matchups. And 3 SDT are too mana-intensive.

[Nihil Credo]

I agree, but I'd definitely put the third Counterbalance in the sideboard.

[Citrus-God]

I agree, but I'd definitely put the third Counterbalance in the sideboard.

My list is like Adan's list, but it has the Basic Forest. My SB goes as follows...


1 Pithing Needle
1 SDT
2 Counterbalance
2 Control Magic
3 Krosan Grip
3 Stifle
3 Hydroblast

[Brushwagg]

@Anti: You can probably change the Control Magic to Threads of Disloyalty. It caost 1 less and can get alot of the creatures in the format. Another card I've been testing also is Shackels and it's been doing good things for me. I really like the fact that it stays around even if the creature is killed.

[Citrus-God]

@Anti: You can probably change the Control Magic to Threads of Disloyalty. It caost 1 less and can get alot of the creatures in the format. Another card I've been testing also is Shackels and it's been doing good things for me. I really like the fact that it stays around even if the creature is killed.

I really like Control Magic in this deck actually. Because it runs more cantrips, it let's you see more land. Running Control Magic is easy with a deck like this. I also like the fact this card can grab stuff like Fledgling Dragon. Then again, I'm not really scared of Dragon, I just know that in my meta, White Thresh is everywhere. I think Control Magic will reward me in that kind of metagame.