Personally I think it's flat out moronic and completely unbefitting of the LMF to defend any deck with the attitude "I know it's great, it doesn't matter what you think." There's no logical basis to defend the ancient UWR list and no grounds to claim that it's superior to 4C Landstill or any other Landstill build.
In fact, any claim I've ever heard about any Landstill color scheme being superior to any other Landstill color scheme is completely subjective and relative to the scenarios in which the deck is being presented.
For example, if you tell me that any Landstill deck packing Lightning Bolt is good in the current metagame where Threshold and Ichorid are running rampant, I'll tell you that you're wrong. Lightning Bolt is barely on the playable side of the invisible line that divides playable and unplayable in Legacy, and 600 decks packing Tarmogoyf didn't make it any better. 4C Landstill, however, will have a much easier time slaughtering the Tarmogoyf brigade as in addition to STP, it also has Edict and Explosives where the Bolts would be and Deeds instead of the Disks.
That's just a single example of how, with clever writing and a little bit of reasoning, you can present any Landstill deck to be superior over any other Landstill deck.
Originally Posted by majikal
What do you all think of Gaddock Teeg in the SB in place of Meddling Mage? It is a great way to hinder a lot of the combo decks that usually have their way with Landstill and backed up with significant amounts of permission he can end the game on turn 2.
How would that be good? Teeg is actually terrible for you, I can't imagine what matchup you would board him in for.
He stops Tendrils, EtW, Charbelcher, Dread Return, while shutting off your FoWs and FoFs. Board out something useless against those decks and bring in 4 Teeg and 3 Duress for those combo matches and suddenly Landstill has a much better chance of winning. He can be burned like Mage but the decision on which card to stop becomes much much easier because he shuts down multiple win conditions. I play 4C Landstill so I wouldn't lose nearly as much as UW/UWR.
If you have Duress - and, I guess, Extirpate - along with maindeck FoW, Stifle, EE and Counterspell, then more combo hate seems pretty much overkill.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
I may have been a little aggressive with my posting.... The build is strong, and has a much easier time with dealing with Tarmogoyf than UR. It is a lot more stable and consistant than most other 3c and 4c landstill builds I know of (especially BHWW). I know the deck is old, but it is like my old faithful... feal like getting first, eh I play landstill.
Landstill has always had a strong thresh MU, and with goblins on the decline (this deck has a pretty good MU anyways) the deck is even more suitable for the meta.
I just don't understand why older decks are considered inherently weaker when sometimes it is simply the obvious reverse. I play old school, and teach a lot of lessons because of unsuspecting meta.
You guys could be right, about the disks and disenchant... but the list has never led me astray before, so I am far from willing to change it without proper cause.
Taco style Landstill
// Lands 26
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Nantuko Monastery
1 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Underground Sea
4 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
1 Island
// Spells 34
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
3 Fact or Fiction
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Life from the Loam
// Sideboard 15
4 Engineered Plague
4 Meddling Mage
4 Duress
3 Hydroblast
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
got a question for every landstill deck out there. what do you do against 42 land decks???? no matter how many times i try i have not won the first game ever. and with a little bit of side change, i have a better chance but it is still hard. does anyone have any suggestions? im running the 4c build exact to the deck that made top 8 at gencon cept diff side.
This is the fourth time I've deleted or edited one of your posts in this thread because of grammar and spelling. Infraction issued for failure to obey site rules. Be aware, this is your second infraction. Three strikes and you're out. ~ Nightmare
Uhm... You basically pray that they've all been paired against combo in the first round.
Really, there isn't much you can do with the 4c List because they attack your mana base pretty badly, because your Creature Hate is only about a fog and because all your winconditions are stopped by their Mazes.
Even postboard, I don't really see any hope of an improvement in the Matchup because there's just very little you can do about their deck (yey, you Extirpated/Maged their Life from the Loam, wath how they go broken with manland beatdown).
If you plan on playing Landstill in a field from which you know that it contains a significant proportion of Life from the Loam decks (which is a very very bad idea), you should be playing an UWb build similar to mine or to Hausman's and include at least 2-3 Crucibles of Worlds, 3-4 Wastelands and access to Extirpate in game one (eg. via Cunning Wish)... even then, Life from the Loam/Lands based aggro is your very nightmare matchup (even worse than the rest of Life from the Loam based decks which arn't a really good Matchup to beginn with).
I think your best bet for 42/43Land.dec is to just pretend it doesn't exist and don't spend any effort weakening your other matchups. You're going to lose. It undermines your win plan by being better at it than you are, and it can beat you without resolving a spell. Good luck.
Ordinary Loam Control decks can be a different story, though. With Extirpate and some good use of Meddling Mage, this isn't an unwinnable match in the second and third games. You're probably going to lose here also, but it's not a complete waste of time.
If you're paired against 43 Land and you don't have a loss*, I'd seriously scoop the match, go get a snack, go for a short walk or jog, and take the rest of the round time to rest and relax your brain. It'll pay off more in the later rounds.
*Obviously, if scooping takes you out of top 8 contention, fight it out.
With my sideboard being this:
3 leyline of the void
3 pithing needle
4 tarmagoyf
3 meddling mage
2 extripate
ive actually found myself able to have the upper half against every deck i have fact after sideboarding:
goblins: i bring in tarmagoyf, this change right now with many of the goblin decks in my area are green(krosan grip) and white(disenchant). and with engineered plague in the format soo much, goblin players have found a way around it.
iggy pop: i bring in 3 meddling mage and 2 extripates. this with the maindeck 3 stifles, is usually enough as long as you know what you are doing.
threshold: i bring in leyline and tarmagoyf just to stop the goose and to counter act their tarmagoyf. ( havnt lost one of these yet)
and for any aggro deck i always bring in the tarmagoyf and maybe something else if needed, but the tarmagoyfs are usually enough to either slow them for me to get control or even a kill mech.
42 land: i bring in well everything.
does anyone have any thoughts about my side????
tarmogoyf over E-plague is a terrible thought. Yes, they do run disenchant / grip, but they also run this card called gempalm incinerator. Gempalm is tutorable via ringleader and matron, while disenchant / grip is dependant on topdecking.
Goyf is also in your deed / EE range. Deed is your best card against gobbos, and you dont want cards with poor synergy.
Goyf actually isn't a horrible idea, although not necessarily in place of E. plague. Goyf makes the goblin player over extend. To kill the goyf they have to have at least 4-5 goblins in play, which then makes your deed/wrath effect that much better. It also gives you a nice clock once you stop them so that they don't have infinite time to build back up.
Along with slowing goblins, which is not really a huge issue right now, you also stop opposing goyfs, again, causing your opponent to over extend. The card acts as more spot removal, letting you wait longer before you sweep, making your sweepers much more effective. Also, in the mirror he alleviates some of the time issues.
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Goyf can be like a cheaper Exalted Angel. If you think about it, it is always better to go for a threat after a board sweeper, so you can actually apply pressure towards opponent once you've kept them off beating your face in. Also, Goyf is really good as a Goyf-Wall and random blocker against Goblins too.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
you hit it right on the button for what goyf is ment for. i always brought in as a blocker, not as a kill mech. because in thresh decks, goyf with counterspell back up are hard to remove and when you do you usually lose card advantage. goyf is great for any match up other than combo and some combo it is good like ichorid.
Banned for repeated failure to follow site rules. Proper capitalization, grammar, and spelling are absolute requirements on these boards. - Zilla
Has mox diamond ever been considered in this deck. I know it doesn't have the greatest synergy with pernicious dead, but it would speed up the deck and smooth out the manabase a little more. Turn 1 standstill seems pretty good.
Grammar-related discussion removed. - Zilla
And: Tarmogoyf is good against combo, because he is a fast clock.
Having a fast clock beside disruption is very important.
Against combo, you have to win as fast as you can in general.
Tarmogoyf allows you to do so.
It wins within 4 or 5 turns. Without Goyf, you need 20+ turns (exaggerating, but you know what I mean).
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<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
Regarding red builds of Landstill.
Has anyone ever tried Shard Phoenix? With goyf running arround, red-still is weak, and Phoenix isn't a solution. So I guess its not much of a idea. When I first started playing legacy, Red Landstill was the deck I built, and I tried it. It was pretty effective, I used it as a bogerden pyroclasm if you will. I could block a werebear, or a mongoose and sac it to kill them. I guess this is not relevant now, unless someone has a playable substitution I don't know of.
LED, LED, Announce my intention to play Yawgmoth's Bargain...
Grammar-related discussion removed. - Zilla
goyf is great at making a clock, but makes it hard to choose what to take out. why would you want to take out your control to the combo to force them to go off when teh combo will go off before you kill them anyway.
What to take out? Is THAT really such a difficult question for you?
What about dead removal like 4 Swords, 2-3 Edicts and the useless Life from the Loam?
That would make 8 Slots for Meddling Mages and Tarmogoyf.
Deeds, C//P and EE are kept against thingy...Empty the Warrens.
Grammar-related discussion removed. - Zilla
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
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