It's not completely free; it costs 4 life for every snuff out you play. With all the life lose you're playing - Dark Confidant, Snuff Out, and Wretched Anurid - you're causing yourself a lot of pain. Plus, if Dark Confidant rips a Snuff Out, that's going to hurt twice as much as Smother. Anyway, I'd much rather hold back turn two for a Tarmogoyf, kill it, and then lay Nantuko Shade and proceed to beat every Tarmogoyf that comes down.
Also Wizards printed Gaddock Teeg. That card shuts down Snuff Out. Smother can kill Teeg, Snuff Out can't.
Wait realy.Originally Posted by Baumeister
Instead of killing the goyf and playing shade on the same turn. I think you should rethink this statement because your logic is definately flawed.
Call me Ishmael
Okay, yeah that could be confusing. Turn two Smother, turn three Shade. That's what I meant, sorry.
I also think smother is way better.
for all of the reasons above, I mean smother owns all main creatures in all decks, and you dont lose life, and it doesnt hurt as bad when Bob ripps it off the top
This is Suicide Black. The deck derived its name from using cards that lost you life, but gave you tempo. If you don't play this deck like you would play chicken on the Grand Canyon, than you just find yourself always losing. Snuff Out is what this deck is all about. Now, using it with Bob may be just enough to throw you off the cliff but I am not even sure about that. Basically, your life matters only when it reaches 0. Until then, spend that shit!
Why not Vendetta or Ghastly Demise?
There both subpar to the other options. Vendetta costs less life then snuff out but snuff out is free. You cant run both because then the deck would have to much self inflicted life loss. Ghastly demise is strictly worse then both because it is dead early game, bad synergy with void, 1 more mana then void/cant hit black creatures like smother. Also it occaionally has trouble with goyf and if you run the white splash for goyfs they interfear with each other.
Call me Ishmael
I really think it depends on the build you're running. It the faster, weenie build, free kill is good. You're trying to win the game quickly anyway, so life is more expendable. In the build Anwar posted, Vendetta and Smother are perfectly acceptable because you only need one threat on the board backed by removal and discard. You're also not taking as much damage from your cards. Smother is still good in both builds, in my opinion.
Heh, you know... its pretty awesome that the original monoblack Suicide is getting more attention on these forums than all the other forms and splashes of the Suicide empire. I don't know if this will last very long, but if just feels good. No offense to Techno and his very sexy White Death build, but I hope monoblack Suicide stays the most popular and keeps its viability (heh this way, tea cup saves himself some money)
I believe that monoblack will always be the most popular of the builds for bugdet reasons. The reason most people pick this deck up is because it is relatively cheap to build compared to other decks and can still place well at tournaments. My Suicide white deck costs around a 150$ more and if you would build the deck from scratch then you might be better off playing a different deck for the same amount of money if your meta requires it.
Call me Ishmael
Ha ha ha, keep the name as Suicide White techno. It works. Hmmm, I think the only advantage that the monoblack build has over the splashes is a more stable manabase. I hope that is enough to keep it competitive in comparison for a while. If not, I am going to have to decide a splash eventually.
Well if your meta is flooded with wastelands then monoblack might be a smarter choice. But if it isnt then then a splash will probably make it better.
Call me Ishmael
Okay, it seems like we have a couple, if not three, different decks floating around right now. I think we should post current decklists and gear them towards the *****-heavy metagame. This is a good time for Suicide Black because it has competent game against ***** and was built to beat Control which is on the rise. I play Anwar's list with Smother.
Heh, I will pilot the McPoor SpecialWe should make an all Suicide Black game squad.
Lets do this!
Hey, poor is not bad. Soliditary was one of the cheapest decks to come out of Legacy in a long time, and it rocked the entire format.
Okay, so the deck has a few cards that have to be in there:
17 Swamps (at least)
Nantuko Shade
Phyrexian Negator
Duress
Dark Ritual
Hymn to Tourach
I think these spots are infallible. These cards are the best black has to offer us.
Other Cards include:
Carnophage
Sarcomancy
Hypnotic Specter
Wretched Anurid
Rotting Giant
Dark Confidant
Sinkhole
Wasteland
Vendetta
Smother
Snuff Out
Diabolic Edict
Umezawa's Jitte
And Sideboard Options:
Dystopia
Deathmark
Infest
Cabal Therapy
Dash Hopes (maybe for surprise factor)
Chalice
Tormod's Crypt
Planar Void
Unmask
Last edited by Baumeister; 09-14-2007 at 12:16 PM.
umm i havent been running shade in a while and it has been working for me. Oh and to help your sideboard options
- dash hopes(nope, no suprise factor for this deck... you never want to be holding back for this)
- deathmark(strictly worse then dystopia, there is zero reason to run this over dystopia)
+ E plauge(single handedly beats gobs, now that there splashing black as there main color its even better)
Call me Ishmael
I don't think strictly means what you think it does.
Also, since when is goblins splashing black? I saw some speculation about trying it and that's it.
Yeah, you're right about Dash Hopes. Combo would probably just look at the card, shrug, pay the life, and kill you. I totally forgot about engineered plague. Wow, that's the number one Goblin hoser. As for Nantuko Shade, I would run him now more than ever. He's one of the few creatures in the format that can beat Tarmogoyf, and, for that matter, almost every other creature. He's a threat that must be dealt with immediately, and he can finish the game for you. He also turns all Dark Rituals into Giant Growths, and you want to be able to use every card you see. He's got pretty good synergy with the deck because you're not going to be playing cards every turn and you're going to have mana open. Maybe it's not the case for your deck, but Shade is the MVP in mine.
Not sure exactly what your trying to say in the first sentence. But your second statement is outdated. Look at any of the new lists and read the posts on lorwyn. the only color there considering is black in addition with red. Black is the other tribal color for goblins so this incourages the use of black.
baumeister: 2 more cards for your list:
leyline
null rod
Well since i run confidant i will be playing a card every turn. In my deck shade is weaker then it probably is in your deck.
Call me Ishmael
Techno, I know you play Suicide White now and you use StP. However, if you were playing mono would you use snuff out even though you run Bob.
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