I considered Strategic Planning when I started playing Threshold, but then I discovered Predict. Predict sends one card less than S.P. to the graveyard, but it's instant speed and it enables you (generally) to draw an extra card (assuming you don't blindly Predict too often). If you already play Brainstorm, Portent/Serum Visions and Top, I think Predict is a way better choice than Strategic Planning. Props to Kronickler for having the balls to ask the question.
Edit: On a similar note, I'd like to know your impressions on Opt since I haven't tested it yet.
If it were an instant, it might be playable. But it aint.Originally Posted by Kronicler
Team Info-Ninja: Shhh... We don't exist.
Depending on your build of thresh, opt is either reallllly good, or realllllly bad. If you play Stifles and or Quirion Dryad then Opt is good. Being able to sit to go turn 1: land, go with a stifle and an opt in hand is just sooo good. If they play a fetch, stifle it. GFG. If they don't then Opt EOT. Opt is good with Dryad because you can chain instants and sometimes grow it significantly if you get a nice chain, ex. Opt -> Bstorm -> Bolt. Oh look, Mr. 10 Life Guy, my 4/4 Dryad is now a 7/7 and you just took 3 damage! You lose.
Now if you play predicts in your build, then Opt is trash because it doesn't allow you to set a predict up.
Kronicler
Team Info-Ninjas: Catchphrases so secret, I don't even know what they are!
It's interesting, but it's a sorcery.
If I want to tap 2 lands for one spell during my turn I'm:
Playing Goyf/Werebear
Playing Counterbalance
Playing against solidarity.
Team Rehab- We Keep Coming Back For More
Team Blitzkrieg- Swagga.
Storm Boards
LOL, against what should they board Krosan Grip??? Shackles maybe. So what? And my diuscussion is not about Counterbalance vs. BTS. It's about BTS > Fledgling Dragon.
And well, I bet no one of you had ever tried to play BTS. There must be a reason why BTS shashes some face in nowadays.
Like here:
http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.ph...light=8#place8
or here:
http://www.morphling.de/top8decks.ph...light=1#place1
or like this:
http://www.germagic.de/dc/event.php?...gacy+Open+2007
(Frederic Timmer T8ed, but got a strange SB because they were in a traffic jam and he received a gameloss because his Sb was not complete, so he put in 2 cards from a draft deck).
or here:
http://www.germagic.de/dc/deck.php?id=10203 (2nd out of 60. That's Oddball btw. who played it for a long time and I also played against him at the German Legacy Open. He also smashed my face in because BTS dodged CB.)
http://www.germagic.de/dc/deck.php?id=10099 (3rd out of dunno how much, Frederic again)
Also, that kind of NQGr is even good against counterbalanced Landstill because it gets more pressure on the board quite faster than other NQGs.
That's also the secret in winning mirrormatches, the player who get's more pressure on the table faster wins the game.
Fire/Ice and Shackles can help dealing or racing enemy Tarmogoyfs, and repeal is simply a fucking versatile card, also a very good out against nearly everything (Blood Moon, Counterbalance because CC3 on the stack).
Also, postboard there are a lotmore cards in the CC3 slots. And would you board in Grips just to counter BTS? I don't think so.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
I know people that board in Grips just to have on top to counter opposing Grips.
K, but they can't be good players then.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
Even if the opponent has a Grip on top of his library constantly with SDT, he has to Top the card one down before draw. That's Krosan Grip's window of opportunity.
It's also quite hard to keep a card on top constantly with 7-8 fetchlands. Even if you have enough mana you occasionally want to fetch the other cards away to draw the spells that win the game.
TS Crew
Actually I believe they were high level legacy players at Gencon. I am not saying that anyone should do that just saying people do SB it in for a 3 cmc card.
Te believe something is the result of a lack of knowledge.
Anyways, I won't side in a dead card just to "improve" Counterbalance, but weaken the rest of the deck.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
I wasn't saying you should. I said believe because I cannot find the article that I read it in. Plus it is a figure of speech.
the best answer to opponents playing krosan grip is to play multiple Counterbalances. Then the best then can do is kill a top.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
With the amazing Cantrip engine, you can easily replace those destroyed Tops.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
First place in a nice little 8-man tournament here tonight. The field was:
Matt with 4c Goyf
Kyle with Inferior Breakfast (Kiki-Jiki kill, no Goyfs)
Erik with Ichorid
Zach with Goblins
Chad with Suicide-ish black (jump knights!)
Michael with GWB Survival
Adam with some sort of terrible Braids-Trinisphere-Tainted Aether prison deck
some guy with a Null Profusion deck
so 3 good decks, 3 mediocre decks, 2 terrible decks. Yeah, that's about right for a small Legacy tournament. Here's my list, in all its weird glory:
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Quirion Dryad
4 Sleight of Hand
4 Brainstorm
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
3 Swords to Plowshares
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Counterspell
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
2 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Wooded Foothills
SB: 1 Swords to Plowshares
SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 Pyroclasm
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Stifle
SB: 2 Vedalken Shackles
Cards that almost made it into the deck: Serenity, Grunt, Ancient Grudge, Rough/Tumble as a fourth Clasm.
I would have prefered 4 Goyf 0 Dryad and 4 Delta 0 Foothills but as they say, you go to war with the army you've got, not the army you want or might wish to have.
Round one: Zach with Goblins
Game one: I lead by Bolting a Lackey, and swinging with Goyf while getting poked by a Fanatic and a Skirk Prospector. I use my removal to keep the way clear, while adding Goose to the field. When I'm at 14 he has Prospector, Piledriver, Warchief, and a freshly-cast Sharpshooter. He attacks for 11, bringing me to 3. He sacs Piledriver to untap SS and shoots me (2). Then he realizes that if he sacs Prospector to untap and shoot me, he has no way to sac his Warchief to untap for the last point; and if he sacs Warchief to untap his SS, it will have summoning sickness again and be unable to shoot. He is at 4 life. I don't remember how it played out exactly, other than he went with plan A and left me at exactly 1 life, but I won. I was sweating it out; I had thought the game was mine when it was 14-5 and I had two or three guys out and swinging, but he nearly pulled it off.
-4 FoW
-2 Cspell
+3 Clasm
+1 STP
+2 Stifle
Game two: I let him hit me with two Lackeys, which drop a Matron (gets a Piledriver) and a SGC into play. I untap and Clasm them all dead. He Vials in the Piledriver, and I drop Goyf. He gets a Ringleader for Fanatic, Prospector, and Sharpshooter. He gets some of those into play, and I Clasm them all dead too. He can't muster any defense against the large green man after that. There were some shenanigans with gangblocks and Gempalms in here somewhere.
Round two: Michael with Survival
Game one: He leads Temple Garden into BoP, and begins playing Duresses. I use an EE to kill his bird when I notice he hasn't made a second land drop, and he never does get a second land.
-4 Magma Jet
+1 Tormod's Crypt
+1 Vedalken Shackles
+1 Swords to Plowshares
+1 EE
Game two: After Duress takes my Shackles, he has a Bop and Xantid, and I get ready to EE them away when he plays a Survival. He taps out to do it though, and I EE it away. He plays a Deed. I play a Dryad but have nothing to grow it with - I have an STP and a Bolt but I don't want to spend them on his crappy 0/1s, so it's slow going for awhile. He plays another Deed, while I get another EE and play it on x=3 and pop it. He fails to use either Deed, letting them die rather than trading his two 0/1s for my Dryad, which is a huge mistake. He is totally manaflooded. I don't think he plays another spell. At one point when he is at 12, I attack with my 4/4 Dryad. He doesn't block, and I double-Bolt him before combat damage to bring him to 6 facing an unblocked 6/6 Dryad. Whoopee!
Round three: Chad with Suicide
Game one: I get a Threshed Mongoose early on and start hitting him with it. Contagion shrinks a Goyf to proportions that can be eaten by a Sarcomancy token, but I land a second Goose and keep swinging for the fences. By the time he gets a Bob+Jitte out, he's too low on life to survive the Bob damage, my creatures, and Sarcomancy's pings.
-4 FoW
+1 Clasm
+2 Shackles
+1 EE
Game two is sad. He mulligans, and I just ruin his shit with my bombs. I Clasm a Sarcomancy token and a Jump Knight. I have a ton of removal, he can't keep a creature on the table. When he plays a Shade with 3 mana open to face my 4/5 Goyf, I untap, play a fifth land, and drop+activate Shackles to take his guy. He Contagions my Goyf down but he can't stop the Mongoose+Shade beats.
I thought the tournament was over, but apparantly people voted for a fourth round so we played a fourth round, against my objections.
Surprise round four: Erik with Ichorid
Game one: I had planned to play a Dryad and Jet it dead to remove his Bridges, but I accidentally Brainstormed and the Dryad got too big. He slowly amasses eight zombie tokens by recurring an Ichorid and letting it die. I am at 12 and have two blockers, so his zombies have exactly enough to swarm me. The very next turn I would have been able to Sleight into EE, killing his tokens and probably winning me the game.
-4 FoW
-2 Cspell
-2 Daze
+3 Clasm
+3 Crypt
+1 STP
+1 EE
This game he has a weird hand. I play an EE, he plays Chain of Vapor on it and then Therapies it away. I think I Plowed an Ichorid here. He does the same to a Crypt two turns later. Meanwhile he's not getting any kind of gas, and a Goyf is hitting him hard. He taps out to play a Narcomeba. I have a Clasm in hand, and I should have Clasmed it dead. I didn't, which let him Chain my 5/6 Goyf and sac Meba to flashback Therapy naming Goyf. He was at 5 life. I curse myself, and we settle in to playing draw-go. I draw STP, land, Bolt, and he finally gets a dredger in the yard. I draw: another Bolt, and simply double-Bolt him dead.
Game three: at some early point he plays Breakthrough, saccing LED in response, while I have a Crypt. I don't know if that was right to do, but whatever, I RFGed like ten cards. He draws and discards 4, flashes back a Deep Analysis, but he doesn't draw anything and now has like 2 cards in hand and 1 land and nothing relevant in the graveyard, so I do him in fast with double Goose.
4-0, 8-1. I had orginally made the deck with black for Confidants but I had yet to use my Tundras for anything much, and I wanted to use them, so I switched to STPs and white. I liked it a lot! It sure gave me a lot of removal. Eight creatures was honestly enough, and I never felt the need for basic lands, even against Goblins, Suicide, and a BW deck I played a fun game against on the side and won 1-0. Basics would mean more if there were Crucible-Wastelock decks going around, or if people played things like PoP, B2B, or Blood Moon, but there aren't and they don't.
I really liked my sideboard this time, which is good because I usually find something to hate about it. The Grips were pretty much useless but they could be good against certain decks which didn't show.
Having played my Oath deck in a few casual games I found that I really enjoyed many of the aspects of Blue. It's funny because I am normally a fan of red based decks. It's not the counterspells that I enjoy the most, but the cantrips that blue offers and gives me control of my deck. I really liked tinkering with my deck to find that land that I need, or that counterspell that I need for that crazy high tide combo deck to stop them.
As it stands now the only things holding me back are some fetchlands, the lack of 4 tropical islands, no stifles and no Forces of Wills. No one in my local areas has Forces so I need to go online to obtain them. However I have accumlated enough jank cards to trade for 4 tropical islands. Stifles should be easy enough to get my hands on.
I guess the questions is which thresh deck I should try and make.
UG, UGR, UGW, UGB, etc.
The current dual lands/fetches/wastelands I have atm are:
4 Taigas, 4 Bayous, 1 Badlands, 4 wooded foothills, 2 wastelands.
Any suggestions are more than welcome.
What are latest lists you guys are playing. I mean do you play Wastelands+Stifles+Counterbalances in Red *****?
Has anyone given any thought to playing 2-3 Wee Dragonauts MB?
Dragononauts fly, pitch to FoW and have good synergy with the multitude of cantrips.
Here is a list that played 3 MB in the pre-gofy era.
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." --Ash
In the pre-Tarmogoyf era, a friend of mine used to play a Wee-Dragonauts based Ugr Aggro-Control Deck which was pretty efficient. Although it resembles more to a real Gro deck than to the modern NQG archetype, I think it deserves some credit.
Here's a link to his deck in one of the last incarnations.
It uses Intuition an incredible tutor which either spells 'You win the game' fetching 3 Lava Darts when you have Wee Dragonauts or Quirion Dryad out or just gets you whatever you need like additional critters or card draw in the form of Accumulated Knowledge.
The thing I never felt good about in his list are the Grim Lavamancers which are strong but don't really fit into the concept of the deck.
In his list, I'd replace the 2 Misdirections, 1 Lava Dart and the 4 Grim Lavamancers with some assortment of additional Berserks (he only owned one) and 4 Tarmogoyfs.
Also, you'd want to replace the 4 Sleight of Hands with 4 Ponders when Lorwyn becomes legal.
I actually think burning tree-shaman is very efficient I tested shaman out alot as well in ugr threshold. The reason why I think tree-shaman is so efficient is because it makes UGR threshold have a faster clock as well as it's not effected by any graveyard hate. Also burning tree-shaman can win you games you should not have via shaman's ability through my experience.
Team Hammafist!
I'll stick to Fledgling Dragon. 2 Turn clock > shitty 3/4 in Goyf format...
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
