[Deck] Death and Taxes

[nightbringer]

Teeg is a powerhouse, and so is Mage, but going for both might be going too far

I agree 2 colors is a bit over the top in this deck.
I do think that green is the thing this deck needs however.

[TheRock]

I'm still not seeing Teeg. Granted, combo probably isn't the measly 15% of the format that it was a few months, but it doesn't look like it has any real impact on any combo matchup unless you follow it up with Explosives for Empty the Warrens or a discard spell -- or just...SOMETHING. It does nothing to Ichorid unless you run Explosives or Prison and all Breakfast has to do is run a different bounce spell and actually use their Forces and Therapies.

And let's be real - you can't even consistently make Tarmogoyf much bigger than SotPC unless your opponent does the work for you. On top of that, I don't think it'll be bigger than Grunt that much and Grunt has a very nice bonus. Where is all of the Dark Confidant, Brainstorm, Meddling Mage, Stifle, Duress, and Cabal Therapy hype?

As things stand, I'm going to need much more proof that green is the best color to splash. I've been winning far too many games against other decks with black and blue cards and Explosives.

[Maveric78f]

It's not because you win the mirror that your deck is better.

[TheRock]

It's not because you win the mirror that your deck is better.

I may be misunderstanding you (and if I am, I'll change my post), but how does running green make the mirror matchup better? Pumping Tarmogoyf sure isn't easy and Teeg is just a 2/2 legend.

Resolving Dark Confidant or getting two shots out of a Therapy is far better than anything green can do in the mirror. I would probably argue that blue is better in the mirror too if you're using Brainstorm.

Does green fix the card quality problem D&T has? Nope. Teeg can be card advantage though, and I do like it because of that. But more often that not, Teeg isn't Bob.

[technogeek5000]

Alright i think gaddock teeg is great but i dont think him and goyf warrant the green splash over the blue or black. Storm combo is on a huge decline so teeg wont be hitting tendrills, etw, and belcher often enough. Also this deck wont be able to utilize tarmogoyf effectively or as effectivley as the oter decks in the format can. The green splash doesnt realy improve any of the matchups or it improves the wrong matchups. Aggro has always been easy for this deck to deal with and the goyf only makes this deck beat on a dead horse. The black splash gives this deck the card advantage problem it has and better tools against combo, plus it gives it a bunch of other great sideboard options. Also we have neo duress to look forward to.

Also in the non green lists i have been noticing a lack of maindeck grunt. This card hits on all the goyf decks hard and makes the ichorid matchup easier

[Maveric78f]

Also this deck wont be able to utilize tarmogoyf effectively or as effectivley as the oter decks in the format can.

Do you mean that our tarmogoyfs will be smaller than the opponents' tarmogoyfs ?

[kicks_422]

I think he meant you won't be able to make it grow by yourself when you're playing with it.

Damn, that sounded bad.

[CleverPetriDish]

Geek, we have been hearing about your build with black for some time How about a list?

[technogeek5000]

Umm i havent worked on this deck for a while. My current list is the one is posted on the first page.

Lands(22)
3 plains
4 scrubland
7 fetches
4 wasteland
4 karakas

Creatures(21)
4 serra avenger
4 Silver knight
4 Dark confidant
3 Mangara
3 Isamaru
3 jotun grunt

Control(10)
4 Stp
3 mana tithe
3 Cataclysm

Utility(7)
4 Vial
3 Jitte

Sideboard
4 Chalice
4 Tormod's crypt
3 Duress
3 E plauge
1 Cataclysm

Im thinking of taking out the mana tithes and putting in some of the new neo duresses in its place. I dont run stonecloaker in my black list because there is much better things i can be doing with my mana when im drawing 2 cards a turn off of confidant.

[ebbitten]

Theres a new artifact coming out, noncreature spells costs 1 more; seems like it could be a very very good anti combo bomb.

[APriestOfGix]

I think he meant you won't be able to make it grow by yourself when you're playing with it.

Damn, that sounded bad.

Mine grows just fine when i play with it.

(yes thats supposed to sound bad)

all that matters is it's bigger than anything else at 2 mana, since it's usually a 3/4 or a 4/5

[burkey_boy]

Theres a new artifact coming out, noncreature spells costs 1 more; seems like it could be a very very good anti combo bomb.

glowrider bettter?

[Zilla]

glowrider bettter?

Depends. The fact that Glowrider's a clock is a major boon against combo. Then again, the fact that it's a full turn slower is one of the things making it a questionable inclusion in the first place; turn 3 disruption for combo is often going to be a turn too late.

[Finn]

Eck

This card actually presents a bit of a problem. A good proble, don't get me wrong, but a problem. With the removal of Glowrider, the deck has gained a lot of noncreature spells. Glowrider was too slow by a turn quite often. It was maddening at times, so this sucker fits the bill. It is certainly better than Sphere of Resistence. We just have to watch the problems it can create. That said, I played Sphere right up until recently, when I exchanged it for Orim's Chant. Now, I suppose it deserves some reconsideration.

[chmoddity]

I have been in Athens, GA for three weeks (Go Bulldogs!!). Got home Monday night. I only had two decks with me, and they were just for emergency - you know the kind. One was classic U/W Landstill and one was D+T. To my shock and delight, there was a Legacy tournament with 28 entries at a nearby card store my first weekend there and another one with 17 this past Sunday. I can't recall the name of the store. I chose D+T of course.

I have never had such a run in all my life. I had one game loss in 13 rounds of play and picked up 4 duals for each of my two 1st place finishes. I had no idea that there was anything going on for Legacy in these places. Why don't we ever hear about it?

This is what I used.

White
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Mana Tithe
2 True Believer
4 Serra Avenger
3 Silver Knight
2 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
3 Mangara of Corondor
3 Stonecloaker
3 Cataclysm

Artifact
4 Aether Vial
3 Umezawa's Jitte

Land
4 Karakas
4 Rishadan Port
4 Flagstones of Trokair
10 Plains

board
1 Silver Knight
2 True Believer
4 Orim's Chant
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Tivadar of Thorn
1 Disenchant
1 Seal of Cleansing

Some of the decks I saw were:
Goblins (lots)
Burn
MUC
Threshold
Belcher
Zoo
ATS
various Tarmogoyf decks
random crap

I faced Threshold in the finals both times. UGr Thresh was my one game loss. He had me down with Counterbalance.

[Faluzure]

I have been in Athens, GA for three weeks (Go Bulldogs!!). Got home Monday night. I only had two decks with me, and they were just for emergency - you know the kind. One was classic U/W Landstill and one was D+T. To my shock and delight, there was a Legacy tournament with 28 entries at a nearby card store my first weekend there and another one with 17 this past Sunday. I can't recall the name of the store. I chose D+T of course.

I have never had such a run in all my life. I had one game loss in 13 rounds of play and picked up 4 duals for each of my two 1st place finishes. I had no idea that there was anything going on for Legacy in these places. Why don't we ever hear about it?

This is what I used.

<Stuff>

I faced Threshold in the finals both times. UGr Thresh was my one game loss. He had me down with Counterbalance.

Wow man. Congratulations. That is awesome! I think that DL is the latest, right? Which was your toughest matchup besides that loss to Threshold?

[TheRock]

Faluzure stole the words right out of my mouth. One game loss in 13 rounds...now that's what I like to hear. :)

Are the True Believers holding their weight for you? I really like them but they just turn out to be vanilla bears too many times. It might be because my luck just seems to have other ideas though.

[Faluzure]

I'm about to play in a small casual tournament with a group of MtG players. Word on the street is that lots of them play MUC or W/B Control.

The latest decklist shows that we took out Chalice for Orim's Chant. What is the strategy vs. MUC? chmoddity, since you had the most recent experience in a Legacy tournament, how did the matchup with MUC go for you?

[Brehn]

What is the strategy vs. MUC?

Resolve Vial.


And, resolve Cataclysm.

[chmoddity]

Funny you should say that. I faced MUC and won game one due to drawing two Stonecloakers and making his Vedalken Shackles fail just long enough to pound him. He got flustered and kept a one land hand game two. I had a very aggressive hand and he scooped by turn 6 or something. I played no Vials or Cataclysms in either game, but both would clearly have been bombs.

That matchup scared the hell out of me. I do not recommend this deck against MUC. None of the disruption is geared towards it, so all you get is a deck of small creatures. Unless you get Mangara lock. Or vial. Or Cataclysm.