My list averages 5 damage a game. Never less than 2 damage, but never more than 10.
That being said, my deck (not list, my deck it'self) got played last weekend at our local place and 4-0'd against two burn decks. So...not much of a problem?
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
Rsaunder: How did the games against the burn decks go? Can give us an idea on how to play the matchup?
Also, whats everyone think of running Morningtide in the board? It doesn't hurt Tombstalker if you run it, therefore it's not as painful to yourself as it is to a Thresh opponent; However, it doesn't hurt Ichorid or Breakfast much.
Against burn, destroy lands. Waste nonbasics if they play them, vindicate away, and smallpox if it looks like they might stall. Side out confidents. Nantuko shade ftw.
Why is morningtide better than tormod's crypt?
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
Ok, many thanks for this feedback Rsaunder !!Originally Posted by rsaunder
I can easily imagine that you've actually never took a lot of damages from Bob thanks to the 2 SDTs maindecked though...
Any report from the 4-0 result ?!
Wouldn't Persecute be a powerful card versus burn? Will it fit as a narrow card?
It is good versus Goblins, Solardarity (That reset/brain freeze combo), Death/Taxes, Angel Stompy, and basically all the mono-color decks...
4cc is not great with this deck's mana curve imho.
Moreover, if you don't ritual into Persecute, your opponent will probbly have less than 3 cards in hand by the time you cast it. So Hymn would be more efficient, and leaves you with enough mana open to play more disruption/threats the same turn...
That was just against burn. He turned around and lost to some storm combo (piloted by CaptLyle of BZK). He lost 0-2, game 1 to 14 goblin tokens first turn with no EE. Game 2 he surprised me by SBing correctly and proceding to rip the storm deck's hand apart and laying an e-plague on goblin. Storm ended up winning off of tendrils though. I'm not sure of anything more specific than that. That being said, the man piloting the deck (rsaunder Sr.) had essentially just picked it up and I'm impressed he played it as well as he did.
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
When I use to play Deadguy, I don't ever remember burn being a bad matchup. I just Duress'd and Hymn'd their hand away and then Sinkhole'd and Vindicated their lands. Usually ended the game with a Grunt equipped with Jitte. Rsaunder is right. Just nuke their hand and lands.
Burn is essentially a bad combo deck that folds in the face of disruption and burns (no pun) itself out by turn 5 or 6, if it hasn't won.
Well, I guess only in the Thresh matchup...but Morningtide makes Tarmogoyf 0/1. Tormod's Crypt just gives Tarmogoyf +1/+1.
Err, no. Morningtide makes Goyf a 1/2. Morningtide also turns off your Jotun Grunts should you happen to topdeck one next turn.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Well, my latest list; it seems to deal with Thresh quite well...
Mana 27
4 Dark Ritual
4 Scrubland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
5 Swamp
1 Volrath's Stronghold
4 Wasteland
Creatures 10
4 Dark Confidant
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Tombstalker, the absolutely badass against Red Thresh. Who can't deal with him. Really.
Other 23
3 Sensei's Divining Top(I like this very much)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Duress
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Vindicate
3 Engineered Explosives
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Diabolic Edict
Sideboard 15
2 Swords to plowshares
2 Diabolic Edict
4 Engineered Plague
4 Leyline of the Void
3 Damnation
Against Thresh:
-4 Duress, -3 Hymn
+2 Swords, +2 Diabolic Edict, +3 Damnation,
for a removal suite of:
Removal [16]
4 Swords to plowshares
3 Diabolic Edict
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Vindicate
3 Damnation
Against White Thresh, Enforcer is always ugly, but we *do* have Edict and Damnation and StP...
Any suggestions or comments on my list above? None at all?
Hi.
I really think you have to run at least 3x Jotun grunt it's one of the best creatures in legacy (so important fight the graveyard nowadays). Two tombstalkers are enough even if i don't like it.
Choose duress or thoughtseize and replace the other with cabal therapy if you want to run many discards and absolutely use 4x tourach!
Sensei it's bad and i suggest 4X Vindicate.
You could use one less land for another stp.
Fire walk with me.
Against Goyf, Planar Void is the card you want. It's the one card that really shuts Goyf down. However, if you use the Void, you can't really be using Grunts, so it's a tradeoff. Sticking to mono-black creaturebase might just work though as it gives you the freedom to use Dystopia too, which is an absolute beating against Threshold.
My creature configuration is VERY similar to Hummingbirds, I also run 4 Confis and 3 Tombstalker, the only difference is my 4th Shade. I also run 3 Tops to back uo Confidant and avoid revealing Tombstalkers. Top is very strong on its own, too, when both decks are in topdeck mode, which happens quite often with Deadguy Ale.
But I agree with Mersercus that "4x Hymn" is not openm for discussion. All decks fear the Hymn. And don't side them out against Thresh, really.
@Mesercus:
What? Cabal Therapy? With 10 Creatures? Seems iffy to me... And Sensei's Divining Top is awesome. Playtest it and you'd learn why; it's insane. You win topdeck wars you need. You don't draw Thoughtseize or other discard or creature kill when you don't need them; you don't lose to Confidant...
@Eldariel:
Void shuts down Tombstalker; I'm not inclined to do that unless I can find another good black creature. Which hardly exist. Dystopia costs me life, and I'm not keen on that. But then again, my removal suite already rapes Thresh.
@Tao:
Not to side them out against Thresh? But why? Normally Hymns and Discard against Thresh seem too slow to stem the threats alone; because of that(and imagine the horrible topdeck Hymn is!) I side them out for a more reliable plan of removing their threats when they hit play(which is harder for Thresh to escape); Siding into an MBC-ish deck also bumps the matchup against thresh up quite nicely...
Also, could I see your list, please, Tao? Thanks!
To me, Hymns are gold vs thresh. They know you've got plenty of SB hate for them and use their countermagic carefully.
Thresh pack 8-12 threats with what, 11-14 countermagic backup vs your 6-8 SB cards ?
Mid-game (say, with 3+ lands) topdecked discard get rid of held countermagic like, say, Daze + FoW (unless they kept SpellSnare this long) and clear the way for next turn hate (Dystopia, Vindicate, EE, SPox, Damnation etc...).
Dropping 7 discard effect vs Thresh could lead your drawn Damnation dazed or StP Forced imho.
11-14 Countermagic? What? Okay, so I see 4 Force, 4 Daze, and if my opponent is straight U/g, 3-4 Spell Snares, if not, 2-3 Counterbalances...Where's 14? Besides, Spell Snare only hits 3 of my removal out of 16, and does nothing against Stalker(CB folds to Vindicate, and EE, too. And cant counter Stalker either).
Yes, call me paranoïd but I do think that several builds of Threshold pack a minimum of 4xFoW+Daze and 3xStifle//Spellsnare//CounterBalance.
UGr builds often pack a li'l more (like Stifle AND SpellSnare for ex.), and UGw also have access to MD/SB Meddling Mage or Needle (which aren't really "countermagic" I concede) so they don't have to care countering stuff like EE or whatever you bring in.
Now, if it works well for you, great. I'm just arguing that when you side out discard vs decks packing countermagic you're running a risk that your sideboarded cards won't impact 2nd and 3rd game due to the fact they'ld be countered.
(And UGb run some discard too)
Has this never happened to you with this SB strategy ?!
Well, there's a ton of redundancy in the deck, as I have 16 removal cards, 3 super-blockers(Shade) and 3 cards red-Thresh can't deal with and that are pains for White Thresh to deal with(Stalker), so I don't think they can counter all. I still have 4 Thoughtseize maindeck, which can pick out creatures and counters, too.
However, I think I could consider siding out Dark Rituals instead of some number of Duress or Hymns. What do you think?
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