[Deck] Spring Tide

[Sims]

With the addition of Mind over Matter, I vote this deck have it's name changed to Brain Matter, cause it simply sounds cooler.

[Joon]

NECRO! Can this deck be effective in a slow meta without (or at least very low amount of) counters? Mind over Matter is very strong, not only together with Candelabra. Here's a list I threw together in about 5 minutes, and I guess that there are some really bad choices in there, so please tell me how to fix it

10 Islands
6 Fetchies

Obviously stuff
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 High Tide
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Ideas Unbound
3 Meditate
3 Turnabout
1 Brain Freeze
1 Cunning Wish

Rest

3 Candelabra (don't know how many I should run since I can't tutor for it)
3 MoM (don't know how many I should run since I can't tutor for it)
4 Remand (buys Time)
2 Serum Visions (2 Slots left and 10 Cantrips are better than 8...?)

SB

4 Spell Snare (pretty good)
4 Defense Grid (must counter for control)
1 Turnabout
1 Meditate
1 Brain Freeze
1 Stroke of Genius
3 Bouncespells with different cc's (Chalice)

So that's my list. I'm not sure with any choices except the FoW and High Tides so please help me

[URABAHN]

NECRO! Can this deck be effective in a slow meta without (or at least very low amount of) counters? Mind over Matter is very strong, not only together with Candelabra. Here's a list I threw together in about 5 minutes, and I guess that there are some really bad choices in there, so please tell me how to fix it

10 Islands
6 Fetchies

Obviously stuff
4 FoW
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 High Tide
4 Merchant Scroll
4 Ideas Unbound
3 Meditate
3 Turnabout
1 Brain Freeze
1 Cunning Wish

Rest

3 Candelabra (don't know how many I should run since I can't tutor for it)
3 MoM (don't know how many I should run since I can't tutor for it)
4 Remand (buys Time)
2 Serum Visions (2 Slots left and 10 Cantrips are better than 8...?)

SB

4 Spell Snare (pretty good)
4 Defense Grid (must counter for control)
1 Turnabout
1 Meditate
1 Brain Freeze
1 Stroke of Genius
3 Bouncespells with different cc's (Chalice)

So that's my list. I'm not sure with any choices except the FoW and High Tides so please help me

In testing Permanent Waves with Anwar and Krieger, I recommend

+1 Candelabra
+1 Stroke of Genius
+2 Cunning Wish
+4 Impulse
-1 Brain Freeze
-1 Ideas Unbound
-2 Serum Visions
-4 Remand

We all like Stroke in the main instead of Brain Freeze, because you're not as likely to build up as much Storm as that "other" High Tide deck. Impulse is a strong addition that Anwar felt the deck needed as a way to find Lands.

[Joon]

I goldfished some games on MWS and your list is absolutely better than mine - 4 Candelabras are just insane
Now I got to get some Candelabras -.-

[Zach Tartell]

In testing Permanent Waves with Anwar and Krieger, I recommend

Come on, call it something related to Jewish history. We all know that the Candelabra is just a fancier, Gentile word for "Menorah."

[nitewolf9]

How about "throw the jew down the well"?

[TheDarkshineKnight]

How about "throw the jew down the well"?

As a Jew, that movie was the absolute funniest film I have ever seen.

Anyhoo, I say we call it EPIC MENORAH SMACKDOWN!

[sadface]

Is Ponder really an obvious inclusion in the deck? In my Spring Tide build (non-Candelabra version) I am currently running 4 Brainstorm, 4 Sleight of Hand and 4 Serum Visions. Should any of these be changed to Ponder?

[Obfuscate Freely]

Ponder is better than Serum Visions in almost any application, and this deck is no exception.

In fact, the gulf between the two cards is even greater here, since Ponder gives you (almost) four times as many chances at chaining into what you need while going off, and that is much more important than Visions' ability to clear away the worse cards in the top three.

[TheRock]

Ponder is a lot better than Sleight of Hand and after testing the deck with Ponders instead of Sleights for a while now, I'd say that it's a match made in heaven.

It's much better at finding land and it can tell you how valuable your draw-3 or draw-4 is really going to be before you play it. Did I also mention that it's fantastic at finding Cloud of Faeries and High Tide?

If you want to take this deck to a tournament now though, then you MUST have graveyard removal in your sideboard. I can't think of another combo matchup that you can consistently beat right now other than CRET Belcher (and there's a lot of if's involved), and Breakfast and Ichorid top that list of bad matchups.

[sadface]

Alright, so Ponder is better than both Serum Visions and Sleight of Hand. But which is better of the last two? Is it just a matter of taste, or would you say that one is strictly better than the other (in this deck)?

If I want to play 12 cantrips, should I go with 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder and 4 Serum Visions, or 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder and 4 Sleight of Hand? I've done some testing, but I just can't make up my mind. I guess I like them both. Perhaps 2 Serum Visions and 2 Sleight of Hand?

[HdH_Cthulhu]

I think Slight of hand than Serum Visions is better in this deck.
Because draw a blind card from Serum Visions isnt good.
Yes Visions is better to find a land and you could dig a litle bit deeper, but sometimes scry is realy wrothless...

[zulander]

12 cantrips? 4 brainstorm and 4 ponder is more than enough. Especially with the rest of the draw in the deck.

[TheRock]

You go with 4 Visions. If you want to run more than 12 cantrips, then you can run some Sleights. However, regardless of how good Ponder is, 12 cantrips is still the right number.

Before Ponder came to existence, Visions was the best cantrip the deck had at finding lands, the best card in the deck at finding Cloud of Faeries (Meditate really doesn't count), and a card that worked great in tandem with Ideas/Meditate. Sleight of Hand just gave the player one of two. ZZZzzzzzzzz.

Ponder and Serum Visions are so good at finding land (and each other) that you can start with a hand of one land, one of those cantrips, and five decent cards and still be in great shape. Sleight of Hand is a bit too risky.

[AnwarA101]

I would opt for neither Visions or Sleight of Hand post-Lorwyn. Ponder is simply amazing here as it lets you avoid a dead draw something Visions can't stop and Sleight of Hand only lets you pick out of the top 2 instead of top 3 and possible 4 card after you shuffle. Also Ponder's ability to shuffle during a mid-combo Brainstorm can't be undervalued here.

[TheRock]

Also Ponder's ability to shuffle during a mid-combo Brainstorm can't be undervalued here.

In the 12 cantrip version, Ponder is the only reason why I don't side out the 4th Brainstorm against fast decks - the other cantrips are just better when it counts.

I can understand cutting some cantrips especially considering that we all side them out anyway, but this is a deck that wins turn 3 on both the play and draw because of Ponder's raw power. Why would you want to play nothing on turn one?

[AnwarA101]

In the 12 cantrip version, Ponder is the only reason why I don't side out the 4th Brainstorm against fast decks - the other cantrips are just better when it counts.

I can understand cutting some cantrips especially considering that we all side them out anyway, but this is a deck that wins turn 3 on both the play and draw because of Ponder's raw power. Why would you want to play nothing on turn one?

My recent build has been running 8 cantrips and 2x mystery card (a cantrip of sorts) and I don't feel that Sleight of Hand or Serum Visions are cutting it. I was running Serum Visions until Ponder came along. But honestly I've had more luck with the 8 cantrip build than my previous versions with 11-12 cantrips. That also might have to do with the deck changing quite a bit as well, but honestly I'm not missing the weaker cantrips.

[deadlock]

Ok, some points i want to talk about:
-I am not sold on Impulse, we might need it with a land count of 16, but i think there are better cards. Something that interacts with MoM, but doesnt need High Tide would be great like Mana Vault in the old days.
I still think Exploration might be good here in order to speed up the deck a little bit.

-Both MoM and Ideas Unbound let us discard cards (IU if used as a setup spell), should we use this in form of Flash of Insight and/or Deep Analysis? Solidarity hast the same problem that it needs card advantage precombo and Think Twice does a poor job.

-With the current fundamental turn of 3-4 additional protection is needed imo, perhaps 2-3 Abeyance?

-Do we need a win condition maindeck? I played with 1 Stroke, 1 Echoing Truth and 2 Cunning Wish (3 stresses the mana curve to much i think). Even if there i a MM it can be bounced. My impression was that if you can get the engine of preferably multiple High Tides, Candelabra of Tawnos and MOM going mana is not the issue. At the current state it is a little bit more difficult to reach this point compared to Solidarity, but after that you have the stronger engine and dont struggle or even fizzle like Solidarity sometimes did.
Does this make sense to you?

[rufus]

Ok, some points i want to talk about:
-I am not sold on Impulse, we might need it with a land count of 16, but i think there are better cards. Something that interacts with MoM, but doesnt need High Tide would be great like Mana Vault in the old days.
I still think Exploration might be good here in order to speed up the deck a little bit.

With the candelabras you're already big-budget, so why not change the lands to:
4x Polluted Delta
4x Bloodstained Mire
4x Underground Sea
4x Watery Grave
(maybe 4 more fetches)

Then you can run Bubbling Muck as a secondary High Tide, and, maybe, Tendrils of Agony as a secondary win condition, ... It does open the deck up more to non-basic land hate, but c'est la vie.

-With the current fundamental turn of 3-4 additional protection is needed imo, perhaps 2-3 Abeyance?

Blue/Black obviously provides access to Duress and Thoughtseize. Most protection will have the drawback that it's dead in your hand unless MoM comes out.

[kilukru]

First off, im a budget player, so fetchland are out of the question. So im gonna run 16-20 island in the deck. My question is, could Trade route be played as a 2-of in the deck to permit me to use unwanted land or should I just impulse/ponder my way trought extra lands?

For ref

1U
1 Return target land you control to its owner's hand. 1, Discard a land card Draw a card.