[Deck] Cephalid Breakfast

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Hmm they could dirsupt your combo with flash creatures!
The could cast things like Pestermite and tap your Ghoul...
Or they play things like Spellstutter Sprite or Draining Whelk!
They also could unmorph things like a Willbender and force you to dread returne another ilosinist...
Or kill a guye with Shaper Parasite...

But who plays that? Nobody so Abeyance is just great!

[Mad Zur]

Abeyance is much better than Stifle against Goblins. Abeyance allows you to ignore several pieces of disruption, while Stifle can only stop one. You will not win games against Goblins by finding a Stifle for every Mogg Fanatic, Gempalm Incinerator, or Tormod's Crypt they draw, and finding a Force of Will for every Pyrokinesis. You'll win by casting Abeyance and making it all irrelevant. Goblins has far too many ways of disrupting your combo for one-for-one answers to work, so cards that make several of those disruption pieces dead, like Tarmogoyf and Abeyance, are exactly what Breakfast needs for that matchup.

Even if Stifle is better than Abeyance against Storm combo, Abeyance is the better choice. The difference between the two cards in the Goblin matchup is much greater than the difference between them could possibly be in the combo matchup, and Breakfast definitely does not need the help against combo.

[b4r0n]

Mad Zur, has your list changed at all in the past month or so? I'd imagine that Ponder takes the place of Portent, but have you made any other significant adjustments?

[Berzerked]

How exactly should Lim-Dul's Vault be used?

I'm only asking because last game I played, Dread Return was one of the 5 removed cards, and that kind of sucked.
Should I be paying half my life to search the entire library just to make sure this doesn't happen?

[Di]

How exactly should Lim-Dul's Vault be used?

I'm only asking because last game I played, Dread Return was one of the 5 removed cards, and that kind of sucked.
Should I be paying half my life to search the entire library just to make sure this doesn't happen?

What do you mean, "removed?" Are you sure you know what the card does?

[Lemuria]

Maybe he just removed the cards from the game....though I hope he didn't do such a thing

[Berzerked]

Wow, that's what happens when I play this deck for the first time with almost no sleep and the text size of the card is insanely small. Sorry for the blond-moment.

Another question, though:
Let's say I'm playing against an unknown opponent with Flooded Strand. It's turn2 and I have the combo in play, but Dread Return in my hand. This means I am only going to have one chance at a blind Therapy if I go off this turn (the other Therapy to discard DR). Should I? Or should I wait for Brainstorm/Abayence/Vault?

[troopatroop]

Wow, that's what happens when I play this deck for the first time with almost no sleep and the text size of the card is insanely small. Sorry for the blond-moment.

Another question, though:
Let's say I'm playing against an unknown opponent with Flooded Strand. It's turn2 and I have the combo in play, but Dread Return in my hand. This means I am only going to have one chance at a blind Therapy if I go off this turn (the other Therapy to discard DR). Should I? Or should I wait for Brainstorm/Abayence/Vault?

Are you only playing 2 Cabal Therapys?

[Whit3 Ghost]

Are you only playing 2 Cabal Therapys?

3 Narcomeba + 2 Combo guys = 2 Therapy activations with one being used for the DR in your hand.

However, if you're going off turn two, you will at least have a vague idea of what they're playing so you're choices will be slightly more streamlined.

[Berzerked]

Like I said, the only indicator I had was the Flooded Strand on his side of the field. This means I could be looking at any number of FoW/Daze/StP/Extirpate.
What I'm basically wondering is if most people in this situation, in upper-level play, will go for the turn2 win right there, or hold off for an Abeyance (which seems to be almost required in hand with so much hate being pretty standard)?

[Lego]

It really depends on what else is going on. How much gas do you have in your hand? If you've got no way to find the Abeyance anyway, then I'd usually just go all in to lower your opponent's chances of drawing into something. If you've got some sort of backup, go for it. If you have multiple combo pieces, I'd usually go for it, and slowroll the combo. Drop your dudes, and mill slowly until you hit Moeba/Therapy. Therapy them and if it's all clear, finish comboing. If not, wait for more disruption/protection.

In short, it depends on your hand and your read of your opponent. With a read this small, it depends entirely upon your hand. I hope that helps!

[Mordenkain]

Guys I have a couple of questions to get the discussion flowing:

#1 If I were to run a 3c version becuase I lack ownership of Goyfs, could anyone suggest an UWb list for me?

#2 Kiki-combo or Ghoul? Ghoul is obivously weakened if your not running green for Goyfs since you have to substitute him with Jötun Grunt. However I also think that the Kiki-combo has another warrant, that it simply takes less slots allowing for maindeck Duress/Thougtseize/Cabal Therapies/Swords to Plowshares/etc.

#3 I have goldfished with the deck a bit, and I find the deck to be somewhat inconsistent with draws. Is it just me and/or the MWS shuffler?

#4 For the lists running 4 Brainstorm, 4 Portent, should they switch Portent for Ponder? Or is 8 cantrips to much/little?

#5 One or more Bridge from below for more Cabal Therapies flashbacks? Also gives you an out if Dread Return eats a counter. A SB strategy could support several Bridge from Belows stopping counters on Dread Return even more effectively.

#6 Three or four Narcomoeba? Sometimes getting stuck with one in hand, a single Cabal Theraphy flashback have seemed a bit to weak for me.

- Mordenkain

[The Rack]

How many top 8s has this deck done in 50+ tournaments, I'm thinking if I should gear more hate towards it. Has it really done that well? I only remember 1 Top 8 placing.

[Mister Agent]

How many top 8s has this deck done in 50+ tournaments, I'm thinking if I should gear more hate towards it. Has it really done that well? I only remember 1 Top 8 placing.

Well it top 8 at the german legacy champs with more then 170 players. Cephalid breakfast has not won that big of a tournament yet though at least the last time I checked.

[Bovinious]

4 Breakfast decks top8ed at the NOVA Legacy Draft this past August, with 1 eventually winning it all. It has placed elsewhere as well I'm sure (check out the historical top8 thread), so I think you should dedicate some slots to it if your worried.

[Mordenkain]

Since none bothered to answer my last few questions, I have been testing ever since to try to answer them myself. However one thing struck me the other day, listen up. I find it hard to believe why this haven't been mentioned yet but I guess it comes now:

I was playtesting Ichorid.dec the other day, babbling to a friend how awesome and unstopable the Bridge from Below + Dread Return + Shenigans is in the deck, and it struck me: Why not run Bridge from Below in Cephalid Breakfast? Exchanging the package of goyf/ghoul/breath or kiki/sky hussar/karmic guide with:

4x Bridge from Below
1x Flame-Kin Zealot

You get a win conditions that goes (as opposed to the other win cons):

#1 Immune to STP. Sure, sword a zombie. Or a zealot. Whatever. Swing for 24.
#2 Immune to counters. If Dread Return eats a counter in the other builds, you won't get anything back and will most likely loose instantly at that point. With Bridges you still get twelve 2/2 zombies that is able to swing for the win easily.
#3 Immune to Meddling Mage. If your opponent have Meddling Mage chanting Dread Return, you can just flashback some Cabal Therapies, putting zombies into play. It's like an Empthy the Warrens making 2/2'es.
#4 You can run less Narcomoeba's to free up slots. Since the order doesn't matter when your flashing back Therapies/Dread Return you can easily fire all three Therapies and then dread return a Flame-Kin Zealot to swing ftw. You could get away with playing only one narco, but I would run two, just in case I happened to draw one. However of note is that you can draw both narco's and still win since you can flashback two Therapies, get 8 zombie tokens, Dread Return a zealot and swing ftw over two turns. This also leads me to:
#5 You can draw nearly any number of the combo/engine/"whatever you call em"-cards and still win. Even if you manage to draw 2 bridges and 1 narco (in which case you should consider a mulligan ) you can still win. If this happens to the other comboes you have to aim Therapies at yourself to win. Not neccesary here. I like.

Of course there are some draw backs to this as well, as with all the comboes:

#1 You loose goyf. This sucks. However, I have found that Goyf alone is not enough to rock it. Also, if you miss him so much you can play like 3 MD and side in the ghoul combo G2, which also makes his boarded in hate suck, which leads me to:
#2 Vulnerablilty to Engineered Explosives/Pernicious Deed. Your putting tokens into play, which is easy to remove with EE and Deed. G2 you can side in ghoul combo to make these mass removals "worthless", since it's pretty damn hard to EE or Deed away a ghoul.
#3 Mogg Fanatic becomes even better against you. You were already vulnarable to this guy, and you will be even more now, however as mentioned SB strategy helps and hell, your still playing Abeyance, remember that.

So, without babbling more, take a look at my list. Ill be taking a similar list to a local tournament in the future (as soon as I assemble the required cards, damn you underground sea):

// Lands
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Underground Sea
1 Island

// Creatures
4 Cephalid Illusionist
4 Nomads en-Kor
2 Narcomoeba
1 Shaman en-Kor
1 Flame-Kin Zealot

// Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
3 Cabal Therapy
1 Dread Return
4 AEther Vial
4 Bridge from Below
3 Abeyance
4 Ponder
4 Lim-Dul's Vault

So, what you think?

[Bovinious]

4 Bridge and 1 FKZ is still one more slot than Kiki-Hussar-Guide, even if you can get away with playing 1 less Narcomoeba. I'm not so sure that this alternate kill really gains, any version can avoid counters or STP via Cabal Therapy. You can still make a bunch of 2/2s if you draw the pieces, but playing 3 Narcomoeba 3 Therapy would pretty much always let you do that as well. The one thing it does have is being able to make an army under Meddling Mage, I'm not sure how much of a problem he really is though.

Also like you said, now you lose to Mogg Fanatic or any other way an opponent can kill a creature, its not a bad kill but I dont think its better than Kiki-Hussar-Guide.

[Mordenkain]

4 Bridge and 1 FKZ is still one more slot than Kiki-Hussar-Guide, even if you can get away with playing 1 less Narcomoeba. I'm not so sure that this alternate kill really gains, any version can avoid counters or STP via Cabal Therapy. You can still make a bunch of 2/2s if you draw the pieces, but playing 3 Narcomoeba 3 Therapy would pretty much always let you do that as well. The one thing it does have is being able to make an army under Meddling Mage, I'm not sure how much of a problem he really is though.

Also like you said, now you lose to Mogg Fanatic or any other way an opponent can kill a creature, its not a bad kill but I dont think its better than Kiki-Hussar-Guide.

As opposed to the kiki-combo, you don't loose to a single creature removal spell and most importantly Pitching Needle.

I guess it's more of a metagame choice for me personally then, becuase Engineered Explosives and Pernicious Deed see little play in my meta, as well as goblins and the bridge kill is immune to most other forms of hate.

Anyways, still wanna ask wether anyone have any comments on my decklist and also, what to SB besides a singleton Crippling Fatigue?

[Mordenkain]

Sorry for the double post, but I would like to ask a question.

Regarding mulligans, how often do you feel forced to do so? Also, do you mulligan when you don't have both combo pieces and/or methods for getting both?

For example, would you mulligan this:

Fetch
Fetch
FoW
FoW
Worldly Tutor
Brainstorm
Abeyance

(This hand actually came up for me today during goldfish)

- Mordenkain

[calosso]

As opposed to the kiki-combo, you don't loose to a single creature removal spell and most importantly Pitching Needle.

I guess it's more of a metagame choice for me personally then, becuase Engineered Explosives and Pernicious Deed see little play in my meta, as well as goblins and the bridge kill is immune to most other forms of hate.

Anyways, still wanna ask wether anyone have any comments on my decklist and also, what to SB besides a singleton Crippling Fatigue?

The kiki kill does not lose to needle beacause that version has enough room to play a stern proctor in the main. Also I really doesn't lose to a single spot removal spell, I guess if you are dumb and go off blindly then yea you lose. Also people tend to try to kill the hussar or kiki-jiki, but then you would just theropy them before that happens.

I don't know what type of meta you have, but goblins will always be around and it seems like your list completely picks it up to a fanatic, also the fact that this build has no other way of winning besides the combo route seems kinda weak. In my opinion if you wanna play a build like this then just play nearly manaless Ichorid.