[Deck] Goyf Sligh

[kicks_422]

I never said it's better than Dryad - it's a suitable replacement for it. The advantages one has over the other is pretty slim though (e.g. Slith grows even when you don't cast spells if you have an empty hand, for example).

Keldon Marauders might be good, but I think you should keep pressure on the table longer, not for just a couple of turns. But if you treat it as a burn spell that can deals 5 over time and can absorb damage for you if needed rather than a creature, that's another thing altogether

[aisman132000]

@ kicks

There are times when you have two fireblasts in hand with only two maybe three lands in play. Or when your mana flooded and have maybe five or so lands . In these situations being able to pitch cards to mongrel seems pretty good. I have always liked him in this style of deck

Slith Firewalker really doesn't seem optimal to me but that's just my opinion. Honestly i haven't had that good an experience playing this guy but that's just me. I know you like him from what you've said in the dryad sligh thread and i don't wan't this discussion to degenerate into another scab-clan mauler/blood knight/ wild mongrel vs. Slith firewalker. All i have to say is that Slith saw some play in t2 but not much else while mongrel has seen play in a variety of extended threat decks like gaea's might get there, and aggro flow. It would seem that in general wild mongrel is the better card in this style decks. I say this knowing i'll probably be flamed with a variety of Legacy is not extended posts but out of all the formats extended is the one closest in power level to legacy. if slith doesn't cut it in extended then i don't think he's good enough for legacy.

[kicks_422]

But how often would Wild Mongrel be bigger than 3/3? I'd play Dryad instead of Mongrel if that's the case, since you'll be more often casting spells than discarding lands (unless you're really lucky to draw 10 lands in a row).

EDIT: I've always thought of Legacy as a watered-down version of Vintage. Proof? R/G Beats won Day 2 of SCG Chicago, over a myriad of Gush decks.

[aisman132000]

what? A r/g beats deck won a T1 tournament? I'm very interested to see that list.

As to wild mongrel vs. dryad, i like mongrel better personally. Dryad is a little to hit/miss for me while wild mongrel is more consistent in my opinion. Sometimes its awesome and other times it is really, really mediocre. Having played with both i can understand why people like dryad but that's just my opinion.

[WiLdFiRe]

Apparently the R/G Beats deck was insanely metagamed, so probably isn't very relevant to this deck.

[Slay]

You guys really need to stop debating putting bad creatures in your decks like Dryad and Mongrel and Slith and put in more burn. Burn makes this deck competitive, it gives you inevitability against everything except Tarmogoyf and Counterbalance. The creatures just sit there doing nothing, they could be dealing 3 damage to the opponent without having to worry about whether or not they'll get killed. This is a variant of burn, not a variant of R/G beats. The creatures are only in this deck because they're really, really good and always better than another burn spell to the face.
-Slay

[kicks_422]

Yeah, I guess it's time to just scrap the idea of adding a 5th creature to the deck. The 18/16/26 ratio of lands, creatures, and burn is possibly the best one as of right now.

[The Marco]

I kind of agree the debate is getting old, however I was a dryad sligh player for a long time and the Firewalker has always been a house. The dryad as well. The problem is that these two cards, especially the dryad, force you to play the deck in a certain way, with a certain tempo either to clear the way for slith or to grow your Dryad...as well as being horrible top decks past turn three or four.

More burn is probably the way to go, but I gotta say that I tested main deck Tin street and they are very good (not a four of for sure...but two main).
Ok I'm gonna go on with a crazy idea that I had, it's probably not that great but I haven't tested it yet so comments are welcomed. How about playin two Ohran viper and two Tin streer as our 5 and 6 creatures. The viper is an answer to opposing Goyf so we don't have to go 2 for 1 (two cards for one) and to kill silver knight. It can also draw you a card or two if the game reaches late game (it happens trust me). The casting cost is probable too steep but we still play Krosan grip...anyway what do you think??

[Wallace]

You guys really need to stop debating putting bad creatures in your decks like Dryad and Mongrel and Slith and put in more burn. Burn makes this deck competitive, it gives you inevitability against everything except Tarmogoyf and Counterbalance. The creatures just sit there doing nothing, they could be dealing 3 damage to the opponent without having to worry about whether or not they'll get killed. This is a variant of burn, not a variant of R/G beats. The creatures are only in this deck because they're really, really good and always better than another burn spell to the face.
-Slay

Thank you to the man with the Pink Name!!! I ran Goyf Sligh both days this week end in Syracuse and wish I had more burn both days!!! The only creatures that were good in the deck were, suprise, suprise, Tarmogoyf and Lavamancer. Mogg Fanatic did his job and was fine too. I am really going to look at a diffrent build for the next event.

[lukatron2]

You guys really need to stop debating putting bad creatures in your decks like Dryad and Mongrel and Slith and put in more burn. Burn makes this deck competitive, it gives you inevitability against everything except Tarmogoyf and Counterbalance.

Thats why I think that dryad is so good in this deck. its another fatty that competes (and often times outclasses) Tarmogoyf. SURE you have to invest burn into it, but thats what you're doing anyhow, but with Dryad, you're just making an "investment" into a potentially gigantic creature.

This is a variant of burn, not a variant of R/G beats. The creatures are only in this deck because they're really, really good and always better than another burn spell to the face.

Check out the first page on this thread look at the top where it says "Goyf Sligh (r/g beats)"

I guess it depends on the build though. A build that runs 16 or more creatures (If one is kird ape or a green creature other than tarmogoyf) I would definitely consider it R/G beats...the other versions that run mostly burn you're partially right....:p

[godryk]

I know it's been a little discused before, but I'm still thinking about Magus of the Moon, which simply destroys most of control decks and many combo, as well as hurting Threshold, specially when unexpected. It may be a little overcosted, but it deserves some mention as the 3rd/4th creature, maybe as a 2 of.

Anyway, I agree, we must keep only the real useful creatures, and let the rest become burn...

[mmmetaphor]

As far as the creature debate goes, I prefer running:

4x Nimble Mongoose
4x Kird Ape
4x Tarmogoyf

in a deck list of:

8x Baubles
4x Magma Jet
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Fireblast
3x Price of Progress
4x Seal of Fire
4x Chain Lightning

18x Land

It seems creature light but it actually works quite well with all the baubles and scry from magma jet. Mog Fanatic, although a nice meta choice, is just to weak of a beater for me to include and lavamancers anti-synergy with goyf always bothers me. With him gone and 8 main deck baubles, nimble mongoose is a perfect fit.

[Wallace]

Ok man you need to go back a few pages and read up on the deck. Mongoose is not a good choice because he is only a 1/1 for the first few turns and Kird Ape is ok but wasteland will wreck your day. Tarmogoyf, Dryad, Mogg Fanatic and Grim Lavamancer are the only creatures that truely belong in this deck. I am cutting my creature count down to just 12, running a more burn heavy build.

[mmmetaphor]

Ok man you need to go back a few pages and red up on the deck. Mongoose is not a good choice because he is only a 1/1 for the first few turns and Kird Ape is ok but wasteland will wreck your day. Tarmogoyf, Dryad, Mogg Fanatic and Grim Lavamancer are the only creatures that truely belong in this deck. I am cutting my creature count down to just 12, running a more burn heavy build.

OK man, I read the entire thread prior to posting. 8 Baubles along with 8 fetches insures a superfast thresh. I'm very happy with my assortment of creatures and wasteland hasn't affected me at all yet, I play 1 forest and 1 mountain main.

Maybe it's you who need to "red up" on my deck list.

[Peter_Rotten]

Play nicely, boys. Don't turn this into flame war.

[Wallace]

Play nicely, boys. Don't turn this into flame war.

PR I am just getting tiard of people just throwing up deck lists. I have made the top 8 two weeks in a row with this deck. People are just adding and subtracting cards at will, with no testing. Post some results with your lists people. Explain how your build is doing, don't just throw up a deck list or suggest a card because you think it might work, test it. Play the deck before you critique it. I am open to trying new things, in fact I have, I played 4 x Blood Knight (thanks for the idea Barook) in my build this week, it sucked, but I tried it.

[The Marco]

PR I am just getting tiard of people just throwing up deck lists. I have made the top 8 two weeks in a row with this deck. People are just adding and subtracting cards at will, with no testing. Post some results with your lists people. Explain how your build is doing, don't just throw up a deck list or suggest a card because you think it might work, test it. Play the deck before you critique it. I am open to trying new things, in fact I have, I played 4 x Blood Knight (thanks for the idea Barook) in my build this week, it sucked, but I tried it.

And yet you played Bloodknight even if Barook suggested it without posting results or anything. Dude it's an open forum and for the deck to move forward we sometimes have to try out ideas that seems a little crazy (couples years ago people thought we were crazy for playing mental note in NQG)... I'm not saying that Mongoose with 8 bauble is good (in fact I don't think it is) but that is not the point, we just won't ever agree as to what 60 cards to put in the deck, it all depends on your play style and meta. Stay a little open minded, yes the deck is doing great at the moment but your meta will eventually catch up...you'll need to stay ahead of the curve if you want to keep winning. Just my 2 cent!

[from Cairo]

Dude it's an open forum and for the deck to move forward we sometimes have to try out ideas that seems a little crazy... Stay a little open minded.

I agree people should be open minded and test out new ideas. But the same could be said toward the people posting the ideas, are they being tested before they're being suggested? I mean it's one thing in a "New and Developemental Forums" to throw out an untested suggestion, on the hunch that it might be stronger, but I think the major complaints are that in the "Decks to Beat Forum" where tried and proven lists are being discussed there are also alot of what appear to be untested lists or atleast ones that are being posted, with no reference to how they placed or what match ups the new list helps to mitigate.

For example cutting Burn for bauble slow-trips seems pretty questionable, not nessicarily wrong, but hard to read why it would be the best move and adding a guy that thrives off the GY in a format that the GY is a primary target for SB hate seems also questionable. Maybe it would be a good direction for the deck, but without any explaination as to how it improves the deck it comes across as a blind suggestion.

[kicks_422]

I agree people should be open minded and test out new ideas. But the same could be said toward the people posting the ideas, are they being tested before they're being suggested? I mean it's one thing in a "New and Developemental Forums" to throw out an untested suggestion, on the hunch that it might be stronger, but I think the major complaints are that in the "Decks to Beat Forum" where tried and proven lists are being discussed there are also alot of what appear to be untested lists or atleast ones that are being posted, with no reference to how they placed or what match ups the new list helps to mitigate.

True. Back when my original Dryad Sligh thread was in the N&D, nobody gave a damn about what everyone was saying. Now that it's in DTB, I think the deck structure is already pretty "optimized", and that the deck should build on the recent success that Sacearuse had. Any lists which deviate from the list too much should probably get a new thread in the N&D as well (lists with Magus of the Moon, Baubles, LD, etc.)

If only I were there and still had this deck built, I would be playing this in every tournament to help the thread out with results.

Anyway... Sacearuse, have you tried out Keldon Marauders in the Dryad slot? It IS technically a burn spell... The more I use it, the more intrigued I am by it. The deck has a healthy amount of burn spells anyway.

[Wallace]

True. Back when my original Dryad Sligh thread was in the N&D, nobody gave a damn about what everyone was saying. Now that it's in DTB, I think the deck structure is already pretty "optimized", and that the deck should build on the recent success that Sacearuse had. Any lists which deviate from the list too much should probably get a new thread in the N&D as well (lists with Magus of the Moon, Baubles, LD, etc.)

If only I were there and still had this deck built, I would be playing this in every tournament to help the thread out with results.

Anyway... Sacearuse, have you tried out Keldon Marauders in the Dryad slot? It IS technically a burn spell... The more I use it, the more intrigued I am by it. The deck has a healthy amount of burn spells anyway.

I had every intention of adding KM's to the deck. I traded my foil ones in CT and sold all my bulk stuff to the local shop, so I threw in Blood Knight at the last min. Watcher tried them and they seemed to work, I think they will be a great addition to the deck.