I agree, but along with the Fanatics, you still want the Gempalms because they are just fantastic in the meta. At least where I play. They can stop early Goyfs.Originally Posted by Eldariel
"If at first you don't succeed, then skydiving definitely isn't for you!"
I am trying to decide between running Tormod's Crypt or Pyrostatic Pillar in my SB. I was wondering if some one could help me out with which is better in which matchups so I could make a decision based on my metagame. If not is there a good article that talks about the SB cards in Vial Goblins?
Tormod's Crypt and Pyrostatic Pillar has completely different functions. Obviously, Pyrostatic Pillar is for non-graveyard Combo decks, and Tormod's Crypt is for graveyard Combo, Threshold, Loam, and other decks that rely on Graveyard.
It really depends on your metagame...
Yea I know there function I was just wondering which one to choose, I forgot to mention that I have Chalice of the Void as well, which I know can cover some of those decks so I may not need one as much as the other. Also is Pillar only effective against TES and Belcher then, those are the only 2 major non-graveyard combo decks that come to mind. My meta game has a pretty even mix of both types of combo so thats why I was having trouble deciding which one. I remember an article on sideboards for Goblins but I can't find it anymore, some guy on a random forum had written it so if anyone knows of a good article to read let me know.
Crypt is better presently since Pillar is very marginal and even the decks you'd bring it in against tend to be able to either outrace it (Belcher), or ignore it. You'll need another piece of hate or a slow hand for them for Pillar to work so I'd just go ahead and not play it. It isn't worth the slot.
I think Mogg Fanatic is very good and should be run as a 4 of. As for Gempalm Incinerator this card is also necessary to run. I still run this as a 4 of b/c it kills almost any creature in the format and when everyone seems to be running Tarmogoyfs it is very important to kill them ASAP. Plus, it allows you to draw a card which is never a bad thing.
~Shriek~
Agreed. I run a full set not just for Tarmogoyf, but for pretty much anything in my way. The fact that it's uncounterable and replaces itself just puts it over the edge. On top of that a full set of Fanatics is an absolute must - Chumps and usually trades, picks off annoyances, breaks Bridges, and has great interaction with Vial, Sharpshooter, and from being a Goblin.
That being said, he'd probably be my first cut (down to 3) if I was testing Thorn, as well. I'd probably cut an Incinerator before I cut Tinkerer#2 (Hooligan in my build) just because I've found his effect much too useful.
This might be a rather random point for discussion, but I was searching through every red enchantment in existence for a reason completely unrelated to Goblins and ran across Raging River.
I don't suppose anyone's ever given any contemplation to Raging River, have they?
This card wreaks absolute havoc on a Tarmogoyf or any other potential blocker for Goblin Lackey. As long as your opponent has only one creature, they can't block your Goblins at all. If your opponent has two, they'll only be able to block with one, and a well timed Incinerator gets your army through.
This is my first post in Source forums, because I'm pretty new Legacy player. I always wanted to play Vial Goblins of this format and got to Top 8 at Baltic Legacy Cahmps with my Rg list. I went 4 wins+ 1 draw at 5 swiss rounds and then lost to a mirror in the Top 8. Report will be here soon.
Here is the list(comments are always welcome):
4 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Tin Street Hoolingan
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
artifact [4]
4 Aether Vial
land [23]
4 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Rishadan Port
3 Taiga
4 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
SB:
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Krosan Grip
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
The MVP of the the list was Goblin Incinerator-it's really graet against Thresh decks and their Tarmogoyfs(killed 2 Tarmos with Incinerators in a tourney) and also it's and uncounterable and self-replasing spell. The only thing I would like to change in this list is : -1 Siege, + 1 Kiki-Jiki( this one killed me both games, when playing mirror in the Top 8). My sb is kinda Combo based, because I was expecting a lot of Combo decks in this meta.
What is people playing currently?
I mean, outside of the staples what are MD choices for non-goblin cards?
I was quite happy with 4x Thorn of Amethist in monored gobbos. it really helped the combo matchup and was great vs control and aggro-control too (if played on turn 2). It obv sucked in the mirror. Blood moon was also a game-breaker in the side. I see some people is trying Magus of the Blood Moon MD. Is it worth it? Is the legs worth the non-critter-hate-proof ability?
@Tarnoscape: raging river doesn't seem all that good. I'll never run it MD as it's dead vs many decks. I'd never put it in the side as there are better cards to fill that slot imo.
However, it's a damn cool card.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
I have been Playing Rb golbins for a few moths now with the black splash for 1 eort and 1 mad auntie main, and another 3 aunties SB (alongside 4 thoughtseize) I have 4 thorn in the main and 4chalice side. 12 pieces f hate is usually enough disruption to beat combo. (3incinerators, 3sledders (unless vs bridge decks), and 1 of each tinkerer and ringleader come out) Thorn also helps against thresh and their cantrips, as well as other random decks. (i once beat an affinity player as he had plating in hand and two lands but couldn't find a third in time with thorn down.) I also preffer sledder to fanatic, as he helps lackey get through opposing geese, (mostly the only one drop played in top decks) whereas fanatic does nothing vs shroud guys. Sledder also kills bridge and pushes through damage in addition toscrewing up combat math and making fire (and sometimes bolt) a hard spell to cast vs golbins. Also saves mad auntie from clasm, which in turn saves most of your team.
I really think Thorn is the card goblins has needed to restor its DTB status and give it a chance vs combo game 1 without being a 'dead' card.
Also, cuts on pyrostatic pillar, I've tried it before, and it really doent usually do more than 12 damage which just isnt enough against fast combo decks.
If you're playing Rb, I can't really see a reason to run Thorn over Cabal Therapy, which can cripple combo while also being superb vs. any deck not named 42 Lands. Thorn suffers against Elves, the mirror, any heavy beatdown-deck and most control-decks. Therapy is also cheaper. All in all, it just seems like the superior card.
I totally agree on Pillar, it lost its usefulness about half a year ago when the new crop of fast combo came out. Against combo, Chalice, discard and Thorn are probably the best SB-cards.
Sledder seems interesting, but ultimately, there's too much utility in Fanatic for me to consider cutting any. Mana Birds/Elves and Lackeys are still around and in need of some serious Fanaticking. So are Confidants. Sledder has its uses though, but I don't think it's better than any Goblin presently in the deck.
Also, am I the only one who likes Boggart Mob? He allows you to attack relentlessly and even the tokens keep making new tokens, and he's a 5/5, or a 4/4 under Plague, still the biggest guy in the deck, and if he dies, you get to reactivate the Championed Matron's/Ringleader's CiPT. And the tokens make racing impossible for your opponent.
As of right now I really like the R/g/b build of Vial Goblins. I find it very important to have access to both green and black in the deck. I think the green is important for an answer to an artifact in Tin Street Hooligan in the main deck. Black adds Wort to the main, which is simply amazing in so many matches.
I also like green b/c in the board it gives you krosan grip which is very important to deal with engineered plague. The black in the board has both therapy and smother. I'm not totally sold on having smother in the board, but it is good in a few matchups, I run it as a 2 of. I think cabal therapy is needed b/c of the combo decks in the format, you must be able to at least put up some resistance.
I've been having some pretty good success with the R/g/b build so far and I'm really impressed with Wort, and how good he is.
~Shriek~
Is anyone playing White Goblins anymore? Or is the trend moving towards Black. If you are still slashing White, have you given Crib Swap a try. I currently have 1 in my build, and it has been proving well. The synergy with other Goblin effects makes it pretty good, but I'm still running 2 StP main as well.
// Lands
6 Mountain
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Plateau
2 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
// Creatures
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Pyromancer
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Mogg Fanatic
2 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Goblin Tinkerer
// Spells
1 Crip Swap
2 Swords to Plowshares
// Artifacts
4 Æther Vial
// Sideboard
SB: 2 Blood Moon
SB: 4 Chalice of the Void
SB: 2 Disenchant
SB: 3 Goblin King
SB: 1 Leave No Trace
SB: 3 Pyrokinesis
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." --Ash
I ran 3 crib swap in my main at a tourney, and it worked fairly well, however, I do think that the mana is a bit hefty. I'd run 4x StP instead, as they're faster and they let you swing the turn you StP if you remove their only blocker. Crib Swap doesn't let you do that, however, both are worth a shot. I did love Matroning for Crib Swap and killing goyf.
Can someone post a reliable R/g/b list, sideboard included? I tried R/b, and ended up going back to R/g since the enchantment hate is just needed. R/g/b sounds like a plan though.
I play R/g/w,, the black splash is for the creature and combo hate, but in white there are Stp's and Orims Chant's, they're much better I think,, You chant when they have played a few mana sources, so they get burn And have lost more cards, and when they combo (With EtW, thats most of the time) i have 4 EE (i play 4 EE and 4 Chant in the board).
Mvg
PS. want to see the list ;P?
*Team Haste!*
Just to clarify: How is EE good in Goblins, especially if you plan to cast it for BGR? What does that even do?
Orim's Chant is interesting against combo, but isn't chalice better overall?
My current R/b/g list that had been doing well in testing is the following:
// Lands
4 [TE] Wasteland
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills
3 [MM] Rishadan Port
4 [7E] Mountain (3)
2 [R] Taiga
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
2 [R] Badlands
// Creatures
4 [LE] Gempalm Incinerator
4 [US] Goblin Lackey
4 [US] Goblin Matron
3 [ON] Goblin Piledriver
4 [AP] Goblin Ringleader
4 [SC] Goblin Warchief
4 [TE] Mogg Fanatic
2 [SC] Siege-Gang Commander
2 [GP] Tin Street Hooligan
2 [LRW] Wort, Boggart Auntie
// Spells
4 [DS] AEther Vial
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 4 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
SB: 4 [CH] Tormod's Crypt
1 Boggart Mob MD might be good rather than a 2nd Wort is something I may try, but Wort seems really good especially with Incinerator and Fanatic recursion. I originally cut a Incinerator rather than Piledriver, but Piledriver actually seems worse because hes not good on his own and can just be tutored up with Matron if you need a big alpha strike. I'm still not sure about the SB either but I know I want Therapies and Grips, any suggestions?
EDIT: Black sources are tech...
where are the black sources? or are you gonna vial them in?
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