[DTB] Vial Goblins

[StarHawk]

Thanks for the clear-up Tacosnape. I'm still new to goblins. But I'm wondering in bigger tournaments than local, how prevalent are LD based decks like stax, dead guy or even decks that play Armageddon. And which prevalent decks would you need life from loam for?

[Whit3 Ghost]

Thanks for the clear-up Tacosnape. I'm still new to goblins. But I'm wondering in bigger tournaments than local, how prevalent are LD based decks like stax, dead guy or even decks that play Armageddon. And which prevalent decks would you need life from loam for?

Personally, I think I'd like it even more as a proactive threat in order to Wastelock decks like Landstill and/or recur Barbarian Ring in the face of Plague/Silver Knight/Aether Flash/ect

[Mental]

Thanks for the clear-up Tacosnape. I'm still new to goblins. But I'm wondering in bigger tournaments than local, how prevalent are LD based decks like stax, dead guy or even decks that play Armageddon. And which prevalent decks would you need life from loam for?

I don't have too much experience, but it varies by meta. For me, there's only 0-1 LD based deck each tournament (43 lands) but it does steamroll me, usually. Manascrew --> Tabernacle = I lose.

[Shriekmaw]

Anything with creatures, basically. It kills mana acceleration, and really messes with combat math. A lot of people argue that it's either situationally awesome, or situationally shitty. I think that's mostly true, except I've never gone "God dammit, this is absolutely the worst card I could've drawn."

Actually, the only reason I do currently have 1 sharpshooter in the board is because in Syracuse Survival tends to be a popular deck. I don't side it in that often but very good against survival and the mirror.

The only innovation that I'm considering is in the sideboard. I believe the main deck is a solid as its going to get.

I'm really happy with the deck, because Vial Goblins is just that damn good.

[Tacosnape]

It could also be noted that it has synergy with Barbarian Ring as well, for a win condition that can fight through a lot of hate, kill Silver Knights and other pro red creatures, and might be decent in the mirror.

That's a completely weird idea. I can't decide whether to bash it or praise it.

I think seeing as how Goblins isn't so prevalent that Silver Knight is still considered a major Legacy staple and that pro-red is well on the decline, Ring might be a bit of a reach, but maybe not depending on your metagame. Plus, anything that Ring can reach through, Siege-Gang Commander can also.

[Whit3 Ghost]

That's a completely weird idea. I can't decide whether to bash it or praise it.

I think seeing as how Goblins isn't so prevalent that Silver Knight is still considered a major Legacy staple and that pro-red is well on the decline, Ring might be a bit of a reach, but maybe not depending on your metagame. Plus, anything that Ring can reach through, Siege-Gang Commander can also.

Thanks (I think), at the very least, it deserves some testing.

As for things that SCG can't win through Plague, Sphere of Law, Cop Red.
My personal list is black splash only, and Rings have won me a few games there without the option of recursion.

Also, at least it's a red source.

[Tacosnape]

Thanks (I think), at the very least, it deserves some testing.

As for things that SCG can't win through Plague, Sphere of Law, Cop Red.
My personal list is black splash only, and Rings have won me a few games there without the option of recursion.

Also, at least it's a red source.

In RB only, how do you expect to recur the rings?

Although in RB only, the rings seem more valuable as you lose the ability to get rid of Plague and such*, which means it could be at its most valuable in your build. Man, I strangely want to try that out now.

(Which is why, for the love of god, I'll never go outside of RG. Or at least not until they make an enchantment-killing version of Tin Street Hooligan.)

[Cait_Sith]

I love RB. I love it to death. The problem is, RB cannot deal with Enchantments. RB has a ton of advantages over RG, but the simple fact that all the nasty anti-goblin Enchantments suddenly become immensely hard to deal with just kills it. If you run RB, you really ought to go for Rgb, in which case you can have a Life or 2 sb if you run Rings (possibly Md, but there is not that much room).

[thefreakaccident]

I have never been what you would call a 'goblin player' but I have picked up the deck from time to time... one thing that I have noticed about the deck as of recently is that while discard is good, it doesn't do anything to a tarmogoyf once it is on the table... this leads me to another train of thought, why not just destroy it?

I have a theoretical list for you guys:

spells//7
3 cribswap
4 aether vial

lands//22
4 wasteland
3 rishidan port
4 plateau
4 wooded foothills
7 mountain

creatures//31
4 goblin warcheif
4 goblin ringleader
4 goblin matron
4 goblin lackey
4 goblin piledriver
4 mogg fanatic
2 seige gang commander
1 kiki-jiki mirror breaker
2 goblin goon
2 gempalm incinerator

Sideboard//
4 disenchant
3 orim's chant (good against combo and a timewalk against other decks)
4 challice of the void
4 tormod's crypt


I was wondering what you guys thought of this approach... the crib swaps can be tutored/leadered as well!

[Tacosnape]

Crib Swap is seriously awful. It's so ridiculously narrow, overcosted, and underpowered that it's completely not worth the fact you can pick it up off Ringleader or Matron. Swords to Plowshares is way better, and I'd even argue that Oblivion Ring's a better choice.

It's in debatably the third best splash color. It costs a whopping 3 mana, meaning it has a 0% chance of clearing the way for a turn 2 Lackey hit, and at three mana you want to be playing Matrons and Warchiefs. It still leaves them a creature to take down a 1-toughness Goblin, and what's even worse? It's tribal, meaning that second Tarmogoyf they drop down is going to be even bigger.

If you're going to run white, run good white cards. Like Swords to Plowshares, which is infinitely better than any other white creature removal spell in any deck that's ever existed, including Goblins.

[StarHawk]

I was wondering about maybe instead of the green splash you could run R/W/B. It would give you no answers to artifact/enchantment main deck but you could run swords in the main and abeyance/orims chant sideboard. I don't know if there's a reason this is'nt already done. But it seems swords would help more than tin street hooligan in the threshold match up. And abeyance/chant would help alot in the combo match-up.

[Media314r8]

Rb does have an aswer to enchantments: (if by enchantments, you mean E-plague) Mad Auntie. I run RB goblins with 1 MB as a tutor target for vial/tutor shenannagins,a nd three +1 king SB, as it really helps against thresh (as most splash mountians) and it's nice to be able to chump/ kill goyfs, and regen shield after damage is assigned to your team block. After boards, black decks have 4 E plagues, you have 5 Aunties/Kings. RB also has a more solid manabase, and I find that I can more reliably fetch basics if I only have three lands than I could in 3 color gobs.

[Tacosnape]

Rb does have an aswer to enchantments: (if by enchantments, you mean E-plague) Mad Auntie. I run RB goblins with 1 MB as a tutor target for vial/tutor shenannagins,a nd three +1 king SB, as it really helps against thresh (as most splash mountians) and it's nice to be able to chump/ kill goyfs, and regen shield after damage is assigned to your team block. After boards, black decks have 4 E plagues, you have 5 Aunties/Kings. RB also has a more solid manabase, and I find that I can more reliably fetch basics if I only have three lands than I could in 3 color gobs.

By enchantments, I meant just that. Enchantments. Plague isn't the only one. Ghostly Prison sees a lot of play, as does Humility. Propaganda and Elephant Grass pop up in a few decks. And the occasional Circle of Protection: Red rears its ugly head when you least expect it. Pernicious Deed eats your board, and Survival of the Fittest grabs a ton of Tarmogoyfs to sit in your way and be obnoxious.

I was wondering about maybe instead of the green splash you could run R/W/B. It would give you no answers to artifact/enchantment main deck but you could run swords in the main and abeyance/orims chant sideboard. I don't know if there's a reason this is'nt already done. But it seems swords would help more than tin street hooligan in the threshold match up. And abeyance/chant would help alot in the combo match-up.

Chant isn't nearly as strong against combo as you think. If you're going to splash black, your combo hate pieces will likely be Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy, as they're also your best bets for pre-emptive enchantment removal.

The only thing splashing both Black and White really gives you is Vindicate (Or EE, but any three-color build can sneak that in). Vindicate's neat in that it's an all-purpose boardable removal spell, leaving you more slots for discard/combo hate, and that it also helps out your land destruction in a pinch. It's not enough to warrant the double splash, in my opinion, but there you go.

[Mental]

I was wondering about maybe instead of the green splash you could run R/W/B. It would give you no answers to artifact/enchantment main deck but you could run swords in the main and abeyance/orims chant sideboard. I don't know if there's a reason this is'nt already done. But it seems swords would help more than tin street hooligan in the threshold match up. And abeyance/chant would help alot in the combo match-up.

I've done this and I must say I didn't love it. I ran 4x Duress and 4x Thoughtseize SB against Thresh, and it worked, but it sucked against everything else. Meh, I'm Rw now, and it's working fine. Seriously, STP is very underrated in Goblins. However, it is worth running a 1 of Badlands just to have access to EE for 3.

[GreenOne]

What about the new changeling spoiled in Morningtide?

For reference:
Taurean Mauler --- 2R
Creature - Shapeshifter
Changeling (This card is every creature type at all times)
Whenever an opponent plays a spell, you may put a +1/+1 counter on Taurean Mauler.
2/2

It's a sort of Quirion Driad that works on the opponent spells and it's Red. It could be quite useful vs Thresh but so-so vs control etc..

[zulander]

Why not play rgb? Anwar top 4rd twice here at the frog last two weeks and in testing it's pretty solid. Black for thoughseize/black gobbs and green for goyfs and grip.

[AnwarA101]

I've been working with Goblins lately as a way to fight through my local metagame where Landstill, Thresh, and graveyard combo (Ichorid, Breakfast) seem to be prevalent as well ofcourse Random aggro. I began with Jeff Folinus' list from TML 3, but I saw him get beaten down by ridiculous Tarmogoyfs and I decided to play this -

4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
3 Siege-Gang Commander
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Wort
1 Tin-Street
1 Goblin Piledriver
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Aether Vial

4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Taiga
2 Badlands
3 Mountain
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port

You'll notice that this deck is virtually Jeff's build with the following change -

-3 Goblin Piledriver
-1 Wort
+4 Tarmogoyf

I haven't missed Piledriver at all and he's a good tutor target if you have to go for the alpha strike. I miss the Wort a bit more, but its also one of the slower creatures in the deck. Tarmogoyf has been very good as it helps me fight Threshold very well as well as other Goyf decks.

[zulander]

Wierd.. if you're going to post the list post the board tech. You guys will be amazed.

[erhnamdjinn]

guys is goblin goon still viable in todays legacy, my meta always has alot of anti goblin hate even if only 2-3 people play, me playing the goblin deck, I also see alot of jitte's and silver knights, which is why im thinking of switching from R/W to R/G because I have a hard time dealing with a active Jitte. I noticed also most goblin builds have only like 3-4 slots that can be interchanged.

[Mental]

guys is goblin goon still viable in todays legacy, my meta always has alot of anti goblin hate even if only 2-3 people play, me playing the goblin deck, I also see alot of jitte's and silver knights, which is why im thinking of switching from R/W to R/G because I have a hard time dealing with a active Jitte. I noticed also most goblin builds have only like 3-4 slots that can be interchanged.

In Rw, Disenchant is generally good enough to deal with Jitte, as decks with counterspells don't tend to play it. And yeah, most goblin builds only have 3-4 spots that can be interchanged. That's because the rest of the deck kicks ass.

For dealing with Silver Knight, the Barbarian Ring tech posted above seems pretty interesting. However, if you're running white, StP should do the trick.