From recent (12/1) tournament
Originally Posted by Afro
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." --Ash
BTW, I've seen in one of the early posts a report of a tournament where the deck lost just to a a burn deck, which puzzled someone. From my experience against burn, I have to say that even if pre side chalice and jitte almost assure a win, post side things go really a different way: chalice, jitte, and even trinisphere are all easy targets of shattering spree (which even under trini can be paid with RRR to target three things.. sometimes even our moxen).
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Yeah, to even think about Wumpus we would need a much more dedicated mana denial strategy (I would think at least 4 Trinis/Stone Rains/Avalanche Riders). Basically, you need to make sure his drawback is almost never a drawback.
As to what Taco said, I was trying to explain this to a buddy last night (while drunk). It's a principle I really only came to grasp about a year ago (ironically after testing Browbeat in DS and Burn) and I came up with an interesting thought: How useful would Fact or Fiction be if the player who cast it chose the piles and the opponent who decided which pile would be kept? I don't know that the card would be unplayable, but I'm sure it's power level would drop immensely.
@Malhavoc: Yeah the burn matchup is almost an autowin, but he managed to get completely screwed. Happens sometimes.
I've never seen him so upset....or ever before.
See Truth or Tale. It is exactly the reverse FoF you described, costs 1U and isnt playable.
Not exactly. Truth or Tale only gives you 1 card.
For the Burn MU: It is quite even postboard, because of Shattering Spree and Sulfuric Vortex.
On the Sep 2011 Ban List Updates,
It would be unplayable to me in any deck I would otherwise play Fact or Fiction in. I would switch to Gifts Ungiven or Meditate in Landstill.
However I might try it in Solidarity where the chances of me thoroughly outthinking my opponent are great. This doesn't mean I'd approve of the card in principle, as choice cards are only bad if your opponent doesn't make mistakes. However, I'm fairly confident that if said card existed, I could force my opponent into a fair amount of mistakes.
You are both seriously tripping. Or rather, Malhavoc's tripping and Tsabo's only tripping if he's implying the matchup is even rather than that an individual game might be even postboard. In either case, I'd say Burn and DS are about even if and only if Burn is postboard and is going first.
First of all, Chalice of the Void and Jitte aside, Dragon Stompy has about the same goldfish kill time as Burn does. Uninterrupted, Burn kills at turn four on average, with a few more threes than fives. Ditto for Dragon Stompy. Therefore, as long as you're running the appropriate magnitude of threats and deny Burn the chance to try to switch into being a control deck briefly, you're racing without factoring in Chalice and Jitte.
Second of all, Burn doesn't get Shattering Spree and Sulfuric Vortex until game 2. Game 1 is probably about 75-25 or 80-20 Dragon Stompy, which is about as good as a Chalice Aggro deck will ever get due to its ability to randomly lose 15% against a Precon via manabase problems. Then, even when they get said cards, Burn has to draw the Shattering Spree. Last I checked, most Burn builds run no draw, and the few that run Baubles still don't have much. Even then, the turn Burn takes to Shattering Spree your Trinisphere/Chalice/Jitte is a turn they aren't killing you while your threat is eating their face off.
Third of all, goop goo @ Sulfuric Vortex. This is a terrible choice for Burn to board in in this matchup, because most builds of DS aren't running but 2-3 Jittes anyway, and Sulfuric Vortex is a heavily costed spell in a matchup of this speed. The other neat thing? Jitte still rocks with Sulfuric Vortex on the table, just a little less so. It's just an extra four a turn in a damage race. And you get even more benefit from the fact they spent three mana to get a mere 2 damage ahead in said race.
But seriously, Burn isn't a bad matchup if you don't even ever draw a Chalice or a Jitte. Though sometimes it will just be burn and randomly beat anything.
Just a thought .Has anyone triyed phyrexian ironfoot ? he is really big a 3/4 with a small drawback which can be cancelled with snow covered mountain.
That's all that has really been said on it.
hmmm.... Dragon Stompy seems to be a very interesting deck that I have played around with for a while.
How good is tephraderm? also, what is the gameplan against swords? I guess theres always the chalice for 1 and 3sphere. But I've found that swords ruins creature that we invested much many into.
Also, is winter orb good enough to consider? I've tried it, and with the trinisphere out, its just a brutal beating for most decks.
First turn gathan raiders morph, second turn winter orb, swing, third turn trinisphere = gg pretty much.
And shivan wumpus is horrible, its not a significant threat, they will either laugh at it and sack a land, or let it resolve, laugh again and throw a swords at it. Our threats are only so easy to play, there not really garuntee that we will be able to play them again.
But other than that, I really like the deck and think its really competitive. Guillarme Wafo-Tapa was running it pretty well at worlds.
Wafo-Tapa was also running Rorix Bladewing, according to the feature match coverage.
Seems sub par, but maybe it's better than it looks on paper. 6 mana is a bummer, though.
Yeah, so's RRR.
How good would Fire Imp be in the deck? or is FTK just better?
And burning wish?
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
I think Flametongue Kavu is better in this deck (Though Fire Imp might be stronger in a deck like Survival), as FTK hits a lot of different things and is flat-out a bigger threat.
As for Burning Wish, it's a possibility. I haven't really explored the idea much, though it ran across my brain once. It could be dynamite under a Blood Moon. Did you have a wishboard of any sort in mind?
Also it's way cool to see that Waffle G (My utmost respectful nickname for Wafo-Tapa) is stomping face with Sloggers and company at Worlds.
My thought on wishboard:
1 Pyroclasm (or Cave-In?)
1 Ruination (or Boom/Bust?)
1 Demonfire or Lightning surge
1 Shattering Spree
1 Empty the Warrens
I have not tested the I dea, I was just tinkering with the thought, so nothing too exiting so far.
EDIT: if Ironfoot is underwhelming, how about The War beast? Or is the drawback too much?
EDIT2: How about Solemn Simulacrum if you are desperate enough to play Mindless Automaton?
EDIT3: Another random Idea - Giant Solifuge?
Last edited by C.P.; 12-08-2007 at 04:58 PM.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
I will tinker around with this idea. It might have some sort of potential.
I like it too. Seems like it could be useful in a variety of situations, and I haven't loved the sideboard as it is (as the SB is pretty much in the MB). However, I'd run 4 Pyroclasms in the SB so that you could still side them in against Gobs. I think the wishboard should look like:
1 Boil
4 Pyroclasm
1 Demonfire
1 Shattering Spree
1 EtW
1 Decree of Annihilation (uncounterable FTW)
1 Overmaster
Boil is an instant.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
Boiling Seas would do, seeing it's the same, only sorcery.
How about Rolling Earthquake? Have saved my ass before in tight situations.
This is debatable depending on how big my boobs feel in the morning.
Seems strong, probably worth it. Plus, set at less than 5 it basically reams them and does nothing to your guys. However, an answer to goyf would be nice...can't think of anything right now.
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