[OLD] UGw Threshold

[raharu]

Does anyone have a list that incorperates both Hoofprints of the Stag and Mystic Enforcer? Also, some people on the black thresh forum have mentioned splashing white. Does anyone here feel that Confidant/ Thoughtseize (the only things that would warant a black splash here) could be included in this deck?

[Citrus-God]

Yea... Just take the Counterbalance lists and cut the two Counterspells for 2 Hoofprints...

[Adan]

Yea... Just take the Counterbalance lists and cut the two Counterspells for 2 Hoofprints...

Then you got what I posted about 7 pages before:

// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [RAV] Island (1)
4 [A] Tropical Island
4 [b] Tundra
4 [ON] Polluted Delta

// Creatures
3 [OD] Mystic Enforcer
4 [OD] Nimble Mongoose
4 [LRW] Tarmogoyf

// Spells
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [NE] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [b] Swords to Plowshares
2 [LOR] Hoofprints of the Stag
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
4 [OD] Predict
4 [LRW] Ponder
3 [CS] Counterbalance

But concering me, I found it too risky to play without Needles, that's why I didn't play Hoofprints yet. But it can be good because it's a additional winning-option (and a really strong one). Boosts Tarmogoyf if Hoofprints get handled.

[MeddlingMage001]

4 [OD] Werebear

I think that you mean Tarmogoyf right?^^

[Adan]

I think that you mean Tarmogoyf right?^^

What the...? Of course I mean Goyf! Fixed. Now THAT was fucking embarrising for me

Ok, but that Hoofprints thingy is huge. It's a boltproof Sea Drake-producing machine! But no, it's even more stylish, it produces flying stags...cardadvantage...blah...it's good, but I got a lack of space because I don't want to kick needles (I wouldn't survive that here).

[Charos]

Since it is a kill condition, isn't it logical to remove some creatures instead?

[mackaber]

I think the inclusion of hoofprints automatically means cutting the enforcers since they fullfill the same role. But as I stated in the UGb Treshhold thread I'm not sold on this just yet.

[Citrus-God]

Hoofprints is alright, but it sucks against EE and Deed and all that junk. At least Needles protect your stuff.

Also, I disagree with Hoorprints over Enforcer though. At times, the Threshold mirror gets into topdeck wars, and Enforcers are one of the greatest outs you can ever seen that bypasses Counterbalance a majority of the time.

[raharu]

I think that Mystic Enforcer + Hoofprints is the way to go, but how many of each? I like the way the 3 Enforcer + 2 Hoofprints setup looks, although it seems a little creature-heavy (which is a little uncharacteristic for the white-splash list, but whatever, I like it), but would a bw list that ran Enforcer, Confidant and Hoofprints look good? I haven't been able to cram all the stuff I've wanted to into the list, so I wonder if anyone else is trying the bw-splash list with all three (and extirpate, and thoughtseize and Meddling mage, and...).

[Citrus-God]

I think that Mystic Enforcer + Hoofprints is the way to go, but how many of each? I like the way the 3 Enforcer + 2 Hoofprints setup looks, although it seems a little creature-heavy (which is a little uncharacteristic for the white-splash list, but whatever, I like it), but would a bw list that ran Enforcer, Confidant and Hoofprints look good? I haven't been able to cram all the stuff I've wanted to into the list, so I wonder if anyone else is trying the bw-splash list with all three (and extirpate, and thoughtseize and Meddling mage, and...).

Playing White doesnt make Threshold more controllish; it's the choice of running your cantrip configuration that decides it.

With 13 threats in the deck, it makes sure you dont lose the mirror and control. Hoofprints is great because it let's you keep throwing an evasive threat out since you run Predicts, and a couple tops.

Enforcers is just good at topdeck wars and bypassing CB. It's also Shriekmaw and Demise proof.

[raharu]

I was looking at the red threshold thread, and I was a list with AEther vial. Since we also have Meddling Mage @2 in addition to Tarmogoyf, and a Vialed in Enforcer could be quite sick, would the inclusion of 2-4 be a feasable idea? In the bw list, while I think 3-of vial would be great, it would be just one more thing that would want inclusion in the deck (and I still can't craft a coherent list with all the cards I'm trying to cram in...)

[Adan]

I was looking at the red threshold thread, and I was a list with AEther vial. Since we also have Meddling Mage @2 in addition to Tarmogoyf, and a Vialed in Enforcer could be quite sick, would the inclusion of 2-4 be a feasable idea?

No. A explanation should not be needed. But I still want to type some words so the Mods won't delete my post.

Seriously, Meddling Mages + Aether Vials would make 6-7 Slots. But we are already playing 3/3 Counterbalance-Engine, so why do you want that stupid Aether Vial??? And there are a lot of better cards that should be included, like Hoofprints, because it's provides more Cardadvantage and so on...

[mackaber]

Well in fact someone ran a List with 14 lands and 4 Vials to a 4-1 finish at worlds. To be quite honest this idea seems fairly solid to me since Vial is a powerful spell that often forces a response and if your opponent does not counter it your dudes become uncounterable (also read uncounterbalancable). Also when running only 14 lands you can suddenly keep a one lander with vial, and wastelands and such become less of an issue.

[Citrus-God]

Well, AEther Vials are good, but not with MM... I know there are better cards, like Jotun Grunt, Werebears, and stuff...

If you're going to run Vial, run Jotun Grunt.

[aTn]

I don't find it that hot to run Vials in a deck that packs countermagic like Threshold (especially the list you're referring to, which packs 4 Fow, 4 Daze and 4 Spell Snare) and that runs only 11 creatures. If I were that scared of Counterbalance, I'd run Krosan Grip in the maindeck. Sorry if all that's been said before.

Just to make sure I'm not confused, are you talking about the following UGR-list ?

Nicolas Kohan (2007 Worlds)

Mana (14)
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island

Weird Choice (4)
4 Aether Vial

Creatures (11)
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Werebear

Cantrips (11)
4 Brainstorm
4 Mental Note
3 Ponder

Control (15)
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Snare
3 Stifle

Burn (5)
1 Fire // Ice
4 Lightning Bolt

Sideboard (15)
3 Counterbalance
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pyroblast
2 Pyroclasm
1 Red Elemental Blast
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Umezawa's Jitte

[mackaber]

I think the reasoning behind running Aether Vial in a list such as that is essentially mana advantage. Seeing that treshhold usually has enough to do with it's mana Aether Vial allows you to drop critters while drawing through your dec. Think about it this way: If you drop 3 dudes off an Aether Vial you invested 1 mana and essentially got a return of 6 mana. As an additional perk your dudes become uncounterable and have 'flash'.

[nitewolf9]

That's the thing I really like about aether vial. During your upkeep, you put counters on it so that when you activate it you can put a creature into play from your hand with converted mana cost equal to how many counters are on aether vial. Plus, you only need to tap aether vial to activate it.

[kabal]

What does the sideboard look like this build now?

For Goblins, is it running Blue Blast or Chill? Has anyone been using Galina's Knight combined with Worship?

How about EE? If you are uisng Explosives, are you also running Grip for the enchantment removal? Guessing if your meta has CB or other annoying enchantments.

Pithing Needle? I noticed that some builds are still running 3 MB, is this really a SB card these days? I've seen many people say that Wasteland is easy to play around. While you can, there are times having Needle on Wasteland can make a hugh difference. Granted, I know that Needle can hit more useful things that just Wasteland.

[raharu]

In a list with Vial, why would you want Jotun Grunt? Because you can spend the excess/ saved mana on cantrips? That's the best I can come up with. Why not Meddling Mage? It makes CounterTop more effective and can shut off Tarmogoyf in the Mirror (and you can still vial yours in) and block out Enforcers, which are outside of top range anyways.

[throst54]

That's the thing I really like about aether vial. During your upkeep, you put counters on it so that when you activate it you can put a creature into play from your hand with converted mana cost equal to how many counters are on aether vial. Plus, you only need to tap aether vial to activate it.

QFT.

In all seriousness though, The deck doesnt run enough creatures to really warrant the inclusion of 3-4 Aether Vials. However, i suppose if you want to go with the [card]Trinket Mage[/card] build, it would be good as a 1-of.
The benefits of the vial would be that you dont have to worry about tapping out to be able to drop threats. Having mana open to spin your top is huge when you want to finish the game quickly after dropping Counterbalance.