I have a two ideas:
1
Man o war
Sir bounce-a-lot should be very useful insofar as he helps reusing any of the draw critters, including our beloved king arthur (myojin).
2
Glimpse of nature
1cmc spell, and should draw a lot. In this deck I deem it more useful than the U draw spells.
Drawback: doesn't work under chalice.
Pact: only helps midcombo, and I think a competent control player will focus on countering the food chain. Pact doesn't help in that scenario.
mournwhelk: ditto
FoW seems like the best bet as a counter.
Have you already won a single legacy match with this deck ? Except 60-islands, I don't see how.Originally Posted by 94teen
lol^
anyway, I can't really figure out what to take out for FoW. Fow, mulldrifter, raven and hussar make it out for sixteen blue cards. Is that really enough? Also because raven, hussar and mulldrifter leaves hand ASAP when food chain is played?
Now that could work.
I've tried a friend of mine's Kobold Clamp build in Vintage last week and the deck seemed to just not combo because you either ran out of mana or creatures to equip. He used Glimpse of Nature, but had no mana engine (despite my arguing he should run Carnival of Souls...). This FC deck has a pretty solid mana flow. Cards given by a single Glimpse should be enough to keep going.
According to me Glimpse is a win more card. Everything but good.
Is this to say that, once you resolve FC, there's not a chance you fizzle?
Depending on the list, I suspect that the deck is fairly likely to fizzle even with food chain in play. However, Glimpse is going to be marginal, unless the food chain is in play considering the relatively large casting of the creatures, and can't be cast mid-combo.
I may have missed discussion on it, but it seems like Llanowar Empath could find a place in this deck as an engine creature in addition to Court Hussar and Raven Familiar.
Have you guys considered Priest of Gix? Seems like a solid inclusion.
The deck really isn't hurting for Mana, so Priest of Gix isn't that great. If the goal were to finish out with Tendrils, then he'd be much more interesting. I'm pretty sure he's been mentioned before in the thread.
Cloud of Faeries is far superior because it gives the colour you want (black is bad compared to blue or green), and it can cycle.
Here's a list I'm currently trying to test so I have no numbers on it.
U/G/w/(r) Chains
//Combo
4x Food Chain
4x Skyshroud Cutter
2x Myojin of Seeing Winds
4x Raven Familiar
3x COurt Hussar
4x Mulldrifter
//Draw & Search
4x Brainstrom
3x Intuition
//Protection
4x Xantid Swarm
3x Orim's Chant
4x Force of Will
//Wins
1x Maga, Tratior of Mortals
1x Kiki Jiki
1x Sky Hussar
//Lands
4x Ancient Tomb
2x City of Traitors
2x Forest
2x Savannah
4x Tropical Island
4x Windswept Heath
I tried to keep the drawing to a single color so there is no guessing what color you need.
@POG:Very nice addition, I'm trying to get a version together using Black. 7 mana for 3 in never bad, not to mention you can use the 3 Black made by POG coming into play on other things if need be.
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Like ? Sorry but apart from trinisphere there is absolutely no card I want to play for BBB.@POG:Very nice addition, I'm trying to get a version together using Black. 7 mana for 3 in never bad, not to mention you can use the 3 Black made by POG coming into play on other things if need be.
About your list:
- it looks like it would fizzle quite often (few drawers overall). It's just an intuition, so I'm probably wrong.
- I think you don't need a MD alternative win condition. Leave it to the SB.
- Xantid Swarm is nice but not Orim's chant. Abeyance would be better in that slot (draws so it's never completely useless). However, I think I prefer the Pact+FoW+chalice or xantid shell.
- 18 lands is far too few. It's compeletely crazy. 22 looks to be the right number to me.
- you play no shuffling creature so brainstorm is almost useless during the combo. That's a pity. Actually I think that brainstorm is quite bad in the deck. It can justify to play 1 or 2 lands less (not 4) but it requires to play untap effects (cloud of faeries is your friend) and shuffling effects (fierce empath/imperial recruiter).
Well, with the free creatures (cloud of faeries, cutter) it shouldn't be all too hard drawing two cards out of it pre chain. Which doesn't seem all too bad.
But I admit that the list I was tinkering with also included ashnod's altar, which made me slightly less dependent on drawing food chain.
Hmm, there are some nice artifact critters in etched orakel and mindless automaton. But they cost 4 mana. Unsure...
Not wanting to be rude or something, but can somebody tell me whay this deck is better than Aluren. The only reason I see, is that it's a little faster, but it misses alot of the disruption Aluren has got, and most creatures are pretty dead before Chain comes online. Or am I missing the obvious...
BB
No... Nobody ever said it would be better or even equal to Aluren's level.
Well, for the moment it's not better than aluren, far from it but it has a lot of advantages compared to it :
- the key-spell costs 1 G less => 1 turn before and enables the 2mana producing lands
- it's trinisphere/sphere resilient
- it's not needlable (and a lot of random players forget it)
- it's not chaliceable/balanceable
- it wins the turn when you combo
the aluren deck is infinity, and this deck's not and assymetric. The biggest weakness of aluren is that your opponent gets to use the ability as well. An allured ronom unicorn (okay, bad example) destroys it at any time. Often, opponent gets to wiat until he has untapped his mana sources. Plus, you can hold back the aluren or just smash face with goyfs, bobs or whatever. The biggest weakness of food chain is that the creatures is significant worse without the food chain itself. However, food chain's biggest strength is the possibility of boarding (or maindecking) trinisphere or chalice of the void. Unlucky, the creatures are RFG'ed instad of sacrificing. If it was so, it would be pretty awesome with hulk :P
This is irrelevant unless he uses some sort of split second card that prevents you from swinging in for the win because he topdecked it. The aluren combo eventually gives you almost infinite force of wills and almost infinite cabal therapies (provided you didn't flash them all back).
In essence, winning the next turn doesn't matter.
As for this deck, after some testing, I don't really feel like it has potential to be competitive in a real environment unless we can fit a serious disruption package in, like FoW, Pact of Negation, Toughtseize, or therapy.
Red Wizard needs food badly!
Pact and FoW can be played, i only play Pact and Xantid Swarm, because the Swarm attacks, so you have Protection, and then you can go off and get 2 mana from the Swarm. I think with Morningtide, this deck will get more populare, because i hope some good Evokers will push this deck to some good places. Also, i didnt see Aluren go off on turn 2, and Food Chain can do that quiet consistend.
Just an idea. Now that I see some people in Vintage putting together Pact of Negation and Platinum Angel in the same deck, I just thought that Summoner's Pact for Fierce Empath for Platinum Angel with Pact of Negation backup sounds cute. I know that it can be dangerous, that the opponent can grip the Angel, but it's unexpected and you only need a turn. It's just a thing to consider.
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