This is a problem all Aluren builds can have, thats what the Force of Will's and Cabal Therapy's are for.Originally Posted by conboy31
Team Fat Man & Little Boy
Unfortunately recruiters have eluded my purchase list so I have only test it as a proxy. I feel the consistancy greatly improves and mana base well it is fairly shaky to begin with but combo tries to get off before thats too big an issue anyway. I love the list with divert in the sb it used to be one of my all time favorite sideboard cards. Is brainfreeze not that viable kill condition anymore I used to always run it but I hardly see it run here. Just wondering. Kill you now or your draw step.
Its really not necessary once you "combo out" you should have infi life, infi mana, and infi +1 +1 counters for your creatures, and a hand with 3 FoW and 3 blue cards plus another card of your choice...
they will die the next turn, i have never lost a game after i resolved the combo and passed the turn
That surely makes sense. So really you just have to worry about deed already on board. or some kind of therapy flashback sweeper type of shenanagins. Thanks for clueing me in though.
If, for some reason, you are still looking for a card to win the the game, I would recommend Rishadan Cutpurse (recur it with Cavern Harpy a bunch times).
It also serves the function of beating Deed or any other permanent that is a problem while going off; you can play around it by doing the lead with Cavern Harpy, respond to trigger by playing Cutpurse trick (so if they pop the Deed, you can respond by returning Cavern Harpy to your hand, then going off at instant speed). And unlike Chain Vapor, it does not require an untapped Island to do this. As a word of caution, also unlike Chain Vapor, it is very unlikely to beat a Meddling Mage on Aluren.
Anyway, probably not necessary, as a hand full counters, creatures and infinite life can probably beat almost anything, but I recently played in a tournament where you had to bring 5 decks, and my Force of Wills were in my Solidarity deck, so I wanted to sure my opponent could do nothing on their turn.
Nice! Also the chain of vapor on mage comment doesn't make sense. Bounce EOT play Aluren win. You recieve priority when it resolves. Even if they respond to your first creature with mage naming something else recruiter an answer or draw your deck for FOW.
I meant to say that Chain of Vapor IS an answer to Meddling Mage were Rishadan Cutpurse is not. My point was that you shouldn't automatically cut Chain Vapor just because you have Rishadan Cutpurse, though maybe you should. Other problem cards like Suppresion Field and Arcane Laboratory are usually in the SB, and you can bring in your own SB cards for that.
The subpar beats is a problem. The only solution I have had so far is Horned Kavu since it is a 3/4 and also has that return ability. It requires splashing red, but I use Grapeshot as my win condition.
Also how do people feel about using Research/Development for this deck?
I don't know what the topic of discussion is at the mement (and I couldn't figure it out on this page for whatever reason), but once you combo off, you have infy bounce for creatures, and as many FOW's as you have blue cards in your deck and graveyard, all available at instant speed through whitness recursion. Basically, unless brain freeze resolves on your turn after you mad-combo-out (and you should have therapied it away anyhow) then they will not, ever, resolve a spell.
@MCG_Player: Subpar beats? What?
Also, why in the world would you play research/development?
I'm here to kick ass and play card games.
BZK
To me weather you win with the Feeder Combo or the Storm combo really doesn't matter. I have played both and prefer the Storm build myself. The storm Build can win faster and needs less cards to combo out, Play Aluren, Play a Wall/Bonce a wall with Man-o-War and get one blue mana into play with Coiling Oracle...cast Brain Freeze FTW...
Team Fat Man & Little Boy
I would try to keep the following in mind. I know that you want to win as fast as possible, but the fact is Aluren isn't a straight combo deck. It's a control deck with a combo finish. I believe that strategy has made this deck very successful in the Legacy format.
~Shriek~
@rsaunder
I just had some bad experiences with people extirpating aluren, that is why I was looking for a few other ways to still win in case I cannot resolve an aluren. Research/development looks like it can help me find an out for this as well as allowing for something like a pseudo-wishboard. I've actually also won a few games without the aluren ever hitting play using horned kavu to bounce and replay the cantripping walls. It's screwy, but my list is kinda strange and still being tweaked.
I think Cloud of Fairies would be more consistant than oracle. Plus asist if you had to go beat down with out Aluren due to flying. Plus he's free after cip.
Anyone tried squeezing 4 Ponders in yet? I have just done that and think this should be logical step in a deck that wants to find 2+ specific cards to combo out.
I'm not sure about the Ponders. Maybe Lim-dul's Vault might be better since you can repeat the effect until you get what you want. I'm not sure if anyone has used that yet though.
Cloud of Faeries (CoF) was in the first Aluren deck, back when it first broke. I tried it over the Oracle's and was not impressed. Oracle was almost always better, a turn 2 CoF does nothing but a turn 2 Oracle draws a card or puts another land into play. Once the combo gets going the CoF's were ok but I would rather use the Oracle. Remember if played right you will have unlimited life and bouncing Cavern Harpy every turn to replay Oracle won't hurt you.
I think both Ponder and Lim Dul's Vault need testing. Ponder faster, able to be played turn 1, while Lim's Vault could dig a lot futher than Ponder, not to mention it's an Instant...
Team Fat Man & Little Boy
I think FOW is nearly useless in this deck. Rishadan Cutpurse can get rid of humility or any other thing and can be MB or SB and LIVING WISHed. wirewoodsavage is essential, as you can find anyyyyyyyyyyy combo piece you need at all, without needing both man o' war and the damn walls.
Birds of paradise speeds this up to a turn three kill as well. 4 wirewood savage is really, very essential to finding the pieces. You could take 10 life in the ass to find a gamewinning brainfreeze. I take that back about the man o' war though. That comes in handy.
FoW isn't the best card in this deck, but no creature will ever remove Humility.
Take my word for Ponder. It is the second Brainstorm, and Brainstorm is the best card in combo deck. Look at Vintage decks, they are all running 4 and other formats will follow.
The problem with Wirewood Savage and Brainfreeze is that they don't do anything until you have the combo going. This has been already stated countless times.
I've been liking Dream Stalker much more than Man-o'-War. Meddling Mages to be removed are rarer and rarer these days.
The deck needs to be prepared for growing use of countertop strategies. While it doesn't stop Aluren itself, it stops all your creatures and MD removal for it.
I agree with you on Wirewood Savage but Dream Stalker is just a bad Man-o-War (MoW). Why would you want to run a card that is worse than another? MoW can return any creature, Meddling Mage is just one exsample of what you can bounce.
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