[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[rsaunder]

It's a shame that this deck hit DTW and then everyone decided to stop working with it (I am as guilty as everyone else here, Grim Iggy has been taking all my time).

I'm sure going 3 color has been considered by at least some here. My question is "What's the best way to do so"? Can you support tombstalker and goyf in the same deck? Can you do it with bob? if you cant run all 3, is Goyf+stalker or goyf+bob or stalker+bob better? Is it worth running top to run stalker and bob together? Would you run top for card quality anyways? Is Deed an option or is being able to set EE for 3 good enough? Can we really get away with the 3 color manabase with Magus and blood moon running around? What does the sideboard look like? Is grunt just plain out for goyf and stalker? Will it play land D?

Does any one have any lists like this (preferably ones that have made T8 or something, like the reason this is now a DTW)?

Thanks in advance everyone!

[electrolyze]

i'm still working on the b/w but i prefer the 3 c more,

this is the list i play(it is a really hard list and i almost never lose with it):


4xgoyf
4xconfidant
4xspectral lynx
3xdoran

4xdeed
3xengineered explisves

4xswords to plowshares
4xvindicate

4xthougthseize
4xhymn to tourach

3xbayou
3xscrubland
4xheath
4xbloodstained mire
2xforest
2xplains
4xswamp(many basics because of the amount of dragonstompy here)

sb:

4xgaddock teeg
4xtormod's crypt
4xextirpate
3xjitte

i really like this list, lynx and doran are not realy good with eachother but lynx is more like a answer on mana creatures in legacy and not for the beatz.

doran and goyf are the real beaters and they beat extremely hard, goyf gets really fast big and doran makes it only better.

maybe the mass removal seems a bit overkill but i really like mass removal and it fits reallly good in it i think.

i'm going to take this list to a upcoming tourney and i think i will write a little report then.

i'm testing a list with extirpates and tombstalkers too instead of 4 lynx and 1 explosives, 3 extirpate and 2 stalkers, but i dont like stalker with goyf in this deck. and he hurt very much with a confidant on the table. i will post my test results soon.

[Shtriga]

7 mass removal does seem a bit overkill, especially since they have no synergy at all with your own creatures :) . I'd myself run for 3-4 slots of mass removal only (maybe 4 in any combination of your choice of deed and EE), and run extirpate MD. it can give you a ridiculous advantage over any deck. as long as they have 1 copy of their most dangerous/annoying card in the GY, you can get rid of all copies of it for good. all of their goyfs, fows, stp, bridges, jittes, IGG, counterbalance, blood moon, chalice, manland of choice, etcetera etc etc, with one single cast

[Holo_rip]

a thing that i'll test during my next tournament (this week) is the introduction of two enlightened tutors and 1 moat (in my version, only DC hasn't flying), what you guys think of this ? i wrench many deck, from goblim to 43 land, annoys threshold/cephalid/combo/dredge.
so, overkill or good to test ?

regard,
Holo.

[Shtriga]

I just played some 6 games against a cret belcher deck. lost 5-1 :( he got turn 0-1 wins left and right, even against opening hands full of discard and extirpates (before I had the mana to play extirpate even). never played any1 with such consistency. the one I won was when I extirpated wish and cast deed against 12 tokens, with 2 5/6 goyfs on the table. and he would have won if he had 1 more mana, with a topdecked belcher

what I mean is, extirpate is a lot less usseful than I thought it would be, due to the sheer speed of some decks, and playing more than 1 win condition. it can still be useful though

[Hummingbird TG]

a thing that i'll test during my next tournament (this week) is the introduction of two enlightened tutors and 1 moat (in my version, only DC hasn't flying), what you guys think of this ? i wrench many deck, from goblim to 43 land, annoys threshold/cephalid/combo/dredge.
so, overkill or good to test ?

regard,
Holo.

If you don't play green, it's just w.r.o.n.g. to not play Nantuko Shade. He's that good.

Oh, and about Moat? It's 4 mana, double White. How do you reliably play this, especially against Gobbos, 43land, Thresh with Stifle, .etc? Especially against counters, seeing as if they counter it you've wasted 4 mana and probably a turn. Although I confess it is a good topdeck.

For my anti-aggro card, I'd rather play a few more creatures and a Jitte though. (Probably cos I'm playing Nantuko Shade)


A general question: For the graveyard hate in the Sideboard, what do we use? I take it that Planar Void is out of the question as most of us run Stalker, so Leyline or Extirpate or Jailer?

Jailer can carry a Jitte and beat down, while Extirpate can snag Wasted Duals or win-cons from some decks, and Leyline is occasionally free(but sucks to draw in multiples...)

[electrolyze]

play in bw deadguy jailer and extirpate side and they work really good. jailer especially against ichorid, but it works also against survival, loam and some other random decks. extirpate is just ridiculous against too many decks so thats the reason i run that too.

i dont liek planar void and leyline becuase they have to be in your opening hand to be most effective and it affects your grunts and (planar void) your stalkers too.

maybe tormod's crypt is good?

[Hummingbird TG]

Wait. Both Jailers and Extirpate? What's your sideboard like?

[electrolyze]

this is my sideboard:

4xchainer's edict
4xjixlyd jailer
2xengineered explosives(i run there 2 main, so the other 2 side)
4xextirpate
1xstupid random slot

i realy like the edict, most people dont but i've won many games on that thing.

the jailer and extirpate are not overkill i think cause, pate is against other things better than jailer and jailer the same for pate. maybe i could run something different in the ee slots and the open slot? but i dont know what.

but in the time i played legacy i discovered i am not the best one in making sideboards. on some tourney a time ago i even played 1 bayou main not for deed or goyf but for side krosan grips and ee for 3. there were so many counterbalance decks that i wanted krosan grips side. too bad i went 9th on that tourney, thats just the stupidest place too end on a tourney i think


but now i'm gonna spend some time on the gbw version, so i wont be able to post new bw builds. i played too much tourneys with bw so i wanted something new

[rsaunder]

So what exactly differentiates this deck from "Legacy Rock" now? Is it dark confident? I don't see much difference now that both started (continued) playing green.

[electrolyze]

i think the difference with the rock is that the rock is running more expensive creatures in mana cost and i think this deck is faster than the rock.

i like the green splash because of goyf, deed, doran, gaddok teeg, ee for 3, krosan grip, etc. i think green makes the deck more consistent en stronger against more deck than bw.

i'm not playing explosives main anymore but i replaced them for 3 extirpate, i'm runngin them side now. you people were right it was overkill and extirpates helps me alot against stupid extremely hard loam decks i cant win from without pate or good topdecks.

[Hummingbird TG]

Well, I'm not playing green. Yet. That's probably cause Goyfs are stupid expensive and just plain annoying, though. It's also because I don't attend tournaments.

Although I think BW would be more consistent with mana and let us play Wastelands? Besides, without playing Green it isn't that bad, since we have Stalkers to make up for the Goyfs...

[Whit3 Ghost]

So what exactly differentiates this deck from "Legacy Rock" now? Is it dark confident? I don't see much difference now that both started (continued) playing green.

The LD package, Dark Ritual and the cheaper critters all change the focus of the deack towards more of the control-sui route instead of surviving to the midgame and playing bombs.

I've always hated this deck's manabase, so I'm not sure how consistent 3 colors is going to be. If it's a straight splash for Goyf over Grunt, then we could probably pull it of pretty easily and not hurt our strength off of Rituals.

I think Teeg is a welcome addition to this deck, making control and combo both infinately more favorable, as is Grip for additional counterbalance hate.

Also, with the addition of Goyf and/or Stalker, this deck can now afford to run some number of Swords to Plowshares. However, Smallpox should still be run. That card is a house.

[Shtriga]

I used to run smallpox but at the end dismissed it because it was a bomb sometimes, but many times it was too symmetrical for my taste. besides I don't have room for it in the deck. its a good card nonetheless

tombstalker is dangerous to run with confidants, especially with no tops

I'm keeping the LD package, I love the tempo gain it gives you

and lastly, goyf is definitely worth splashing for, but it's important to not go overboard, because the mana base is already a bit stretched and is gonna suffer against the now rampant nonbasics hate. it also makes it harder to support wastelands, and makes dark ritual largely useless. grip and deed from the SB round out the green cards I use. if it weren't for tarmogoyf (damn you, damn you!!) I wouldn't even bother with the splash

[Whit3 Ghost]

and lastly, goyf is definitely worth splashing for, but it's important to not go overboard, because the mana base is already a bit stretched and is gonna suffer against the now rampant nonbasics hate. it also makes it harder to support wastelands, and makes dark ritual largely useless. grip and deed from the SB round out the green cards I use. if it weren't for tarmogoyf (damn you, damn you!!) I wouldn't even bother with the splash

Really? You run 12 colored spells MD, max, I don't think Goyfy would hurt you that badly. You could also just run Lotus Petal or Mox Diamond to mediate that to a point.

But yeah, I think that if you go 3 colors, you NEED either STP or some form of black targetted removal, because Magus is going to shut you down. I had problems with him running a Swords-less 2c build.

[rsaunder]

Cutting Hippy makes lotus petal an acceptable replacement for Rit. This could solve some mana woes (color-wise) and help pump our goyfs. Just sayin.

EDIT: 22 land:
4 Delta
3 Mire
3 Bayu
3 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
5 Swamp

This ought to work, especially with petals...

EDIT#2 : I'm probably too tired to be designing decks off the top of my head.

4 Goyf
4 Bob
2 Tombstalker
2 Shade

3 Seize
3 Duress
4 Hymn

4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
2 Smallpox

2 EE

4 Petal/accel of choice (you could probably get away with diamond here)

Average cc= 72/60 (I think i counted right) = 1.x = okay hit from bob with stalker.

SB:
2 EE
2 serenity
3 Kgrip
1 seize
1 duress
4 Leyline (?)
2 Dystopia

I dunno, this prolly sucks ass.

EDIT #3: It's 74/60.

so 1.2333333333333 damage. With 2 stalkers it's about 1.25 damage a hit with bob. With 3 (replacing a 2cc) it's 1.333333333, so like +.1 damage when you replace a 2cc card with a stalker. As a basic figure.

EDIT #4 That list needs magus removal. Although petal should help.

[f|i[p]]

@rsaunder

I like the creature base and discard, its also good that you didn't take off the land D part. I think the land D is what makes this deck very good specially that Landstill, thresh,dragon stompy and other decks are very vulnerable to it.

Although the creature kill, Id probably still stick with STP. although EE is versatile as it is,I find it slow and should probably stay in the sideboard. Small pox however I still dont agree with it, its been a long discussion about small pox and it goes pages back. sometimes its devastating for the opponent, at times it will hurt you as well because of discard and creature sacrifice which we dont really have much of. For me EE goes to the side.

So I think id go
-2 EE
-2 small pox
+4 swords to plowshare

As for lotus petals... I have no idea. It does however fix your mana and do add to tarmogoyf... I guess testing this more wold prove its worth.

As for the sideboard, I still prefer extirpate over leyline with your discard package and land destruction as you can use extirpate to remove a certain colored land from a player for the whole game, and thus screwing him more with your land D theme. Against landstill, extirpating tropical island would mean no more tarmogoyf or pernicious deed for them. Same goes for threshold and other decks who are vulnerable to land D, Unless they run basic forest which I highly doubt.

[Hummingbird TG]

I'm wondering, for the Bw build, is it wise to splash 2 Bayous for 4 Gaddock Teeg in the board? (No Goyf, because 1. No green spells MD, 2. I hate Goyf, 3. We already have Stalker and Shade)

[electrolyze]

i have an upcomming tourney and dont know what list to pick,

should i take the list hanni posted a time ago with a few moderations i like:

4xconfidant
4xgoyf
3xshade

4xdeed

4xvindicate
4xsinkhole
4xhymn
4xthougthseize

4xstp
3xextirpate

3xbayou
3xscrubland
3xheath
3xmire
4xwasteland
4xswamp
1xplains
1xforest

or should i take the list im testing for a long time now and has a great mu against many thing too:

4xconfidant
4xgoyf
4xspectral lynx/epochrasite(still am i tweaking between this two in the slot, lynx has a overal good mu against but epoch can be really hard against control but can come on the wrong moment or too late)
3xdoran

4xdeed

4xvindicate
4xhymn
4xthoughtseize

4xstp
3xextirpate

3xbayou
3xscrubland
4xmire
4xheath
4xswamp
2xforest
1xplains
1xmurmuring bosk/or should i take the second plains?

overall sideboard:

4xgaddok teeg
4xtormod's crypt
3xkrosan grip
1xextirpate
3xengineered explosives

i know, very weird sb but i includes all the answers i need.

first list is more land descturction and looks more like the original bw deadguy ale while the second list had more other colored cards in it but can be really fast and can be very controlly too and has less death topdecks like the first(sinkhole) and has a better mana base cause is has many fetch and no wastelands.

wich list is better in a random meta with all kind of decks you people think?

[rsaunder]

Why don't either of the lists you posted have accel of any sort? The "1" part of your manacurve is empty (effectively only thoughtseize) and honestly, without accel for broken (d. rit) or semi broken (petal) openings, you seem to be starting in the hole against many decks.

"I'm wondering, for the Bw build, is it wise to splash 2 Bayous for 4 Gaddock Teeg in the board? (No Goyf, because 1. No green spells MD, 2. I hate Goyf, 3. We already have Stalker and Shade)"--Hummingbird

Why, if you're splashing green, would you NOT play the best goblin ever printed? He's the most cost effective creature in the game. Part of this decks problem was the lack of fat. If you're going 3 color you might as well play all the awesome (shade, stalker, and goyf) and pound it out. It's just silly to play the color in a deck that fuels graveyards like no other and not play goyf.