It's called versatility. Fuck, run GRIP if you want an out to Deed.
Why Deed over, say, Seal of Primordium/Cleansing, which is cheaper to play (not to mention use), kills Counterbalance/Chalice/Trinisphere/Whatever, and can actually come down before a Counterbalance hits play to eliminate any longshot of the Counterbalance itself countering it?
Originally Posted by majikal
Again, Meta Choice... Gaddock Teeg wrecks me and loads of decks around here run him in Side, primarily Survival and UGW Thresh w/ Counter Top. He's used to stuff both Storm Combo and Belcher. Gaddock Teeg essentially makes you have a 4-card deck. If you don't get Burning Wish and resolve it, you lose. Also, for matching against Belcher... if they immediately go off on EtW and I can't immediately tendrils off... It's a card that deals with all those issues, and then some. It lacks the non-counterability of Grip, but I find it useful for more matches instead of the single matchup against CB/Top decks. There is also the jank that runs True Believer and Meddling Mage. It is a pain to need a Burning Wish just for a Rough/Tumble to clear them. Not to mention that you need 2-4 more mana for going off... You can just EoT clear and go off the following turn.
You should be running Clasm, not rough/tumble. We don't play Xantid anymore. It seems that the creatures are your problem, not artifacts, enchantments, or whatever else. Honestly, if you're losing to astral slide; I wouldn't recommend Deed. I'd recommend goldfishing a lot more, TES is a very hard deck to play and you may just be playing it wrong - I'm sorry if I come off like a jackass here. If they slide out their Gaddeck Teeg, there's your chance to win. You don't need to blow anything up. Deed for ETW tokens? Burning Wish for Clasm wasn't good enough? ETW tokens still give you until turn 3 to win. I'm very rarely afraid of ETW tokens out of that deck. Deed still is a mana sink too, 1BG and then X. 6 mana to kill that Astral Slide you were talking about. I'd just goldfish a lot more, you may not realize some winning hands yet. I can't say this is you because I've never seen you play, but some people can't see the win in their hand. Especially without an LED. Just practice. I don't think you want answers, I think you want to be able to go off faster.
I do always want to go off faster, but lately, I'm holding back on EtW wins against certain decks... I run into too many times where I get my EtW tokens wiped off by everything from turn 1 Engineered Plague/Infest off a ritual to Engineered Explosives. People around here see a lot of belcher and run the same hate against TES... so it's not a deck that I can goldfish as much around here, I actually have to *play* it... This is a meta that... lacks things like Deadguy, Landstill, Loam decks... and is heavily Thresh, Ichorid, Belcher, Survival, and now, growing Stompy... Oh yeah, and janky burn decks that love to drop Pyrostatic Pillar. Just Burning Wish isn't enough... 4 cards to sneak a win through against a gauntlet of CB/Top dazes, and force of wills is not enough.
I've been holding back from playing TES ever since Lorwyn because people were stuffing their decks with Teeg... Tried it at Hadley because it was a different meta.
By goldfish I mean, pick up the deck and just play it by yourself. Find the quickest opportunities to win and take them. I heard the blast plan does a nice job on counter/top and force...
Also, since you're learning the deck by goldfishing, here's an obvious thing to do; pretend you're under pressure while goldfishing. It makes you play so much better when that situatution arises. Everybody who's good at TES would agree with that.
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What do you do for the Blast Plan in the case that, say, Threshold, plays Island/Go or Island/SDT or Island/Ponder, then follows with Counterbalance the next turn? What tends to happen to me is that I can't go off on turn one because I've got Blasts and/or Chants clogging up my hand, so I attempt to Blast the Counterbalance when they play it on turn two. They either Force and I'm stuck, or they Daze, and I wonder to myself if I actually play Simian Spirit Guide, because he's never in my hand to get around this problem for some reason. (Yet I always have him if they've got the Force.)
From there, I'm Counterbalance locked, and I can't kill it because if I left my enchantment killer in board Counterbalance stops my Burning Wish, and if I brought it in I either can't draw it or they counter it.
Is there a method of dealing with this situation that I need to know about, or am I just having an unlucky run and this doesn't happen as often as it seems to?
Well, playing around counter/top is very, very difficult. Much more than Island/Ponder, next turn Balance. I'll explain the easier answer first; what you want to do is bait. If they have Balance but no top - Play cards, don't sit there with your hand down your pants. You want that Threshold player to reveal, wait until the time comes to Blast that counterbalance or Burning Wish. They're bound to hit something bad at some point. I personally like baiting with 0cc artifacts or cantrips. With counter/top it's much more difficult, like above you want to bait. However, the goal is to get them to put top on top of their deck. In response to the tap, blast the counterbalance. If you're truely deeply afraid of Force, use Chant. Burning Wish is a much easier answer to counter/top because they always have a 1cc card, they don't always have a 2cc card. As for Daze, try not to walk into it but don't be afraid. Play that Lotus Petal, Mox or hold that SSG.
Counterbalance is just a bitch, you have to practice against it a lot to get good against it, also drawing the win conditions is great. Just throw cards into the counterbalance, then ETW or Tendrils.
From the other side of things, I absolutely refuse to reveal cards when Bryant is baiting the Counterbalance. Generally, I know the 0cc artifacts are bait, so unless I'm concerned about how much mana he can generate, I'll never reveal until I can counter a business spell or ritual - something that requires an investment on his part. The only time that ends up biting you is when you have a land on top and could have countered all his accel. Still, you weren't winning that game anyway.
I ended up 3-3 at the Virginia Dual Land Draft. I lose two rounds because of Krosan Grip in the sideboard. My sideboard was the same except no blasts and 4 Dark Confidant + 2 Grip. I hated Grip. What do people think should be the other two slots? I was thinking maybe thoughtsieze?
I've been maining +3 Thoughtseize/+1 Slithermuse -1 Infernal Contract/-1 Cruel Bargain/-2 Ponder, but I run into much... jankier decks out here. Draw 4's make it too vulnerable to the excessive burn/sligh I see here as opposed to Thresh et al.
Thoughtseize sounds like it should be just fine for you. I may revise to do the same with Confidants due to how people sideboard against the deck now. I've been packing extra Empty the Warrens in SB against more disruptive decks, but it's more expected now.
EDIT - Hrm... is it so bad to run Cabal Therapy instead of Thoughtseize perhaps, since one can try to predict when an opponent is trying to pack Stifle, Chant, et al... and flush them all out?
Actually, Bryant, I have been running a 2x SB Bound/Determined lately and it has been great.
It TOTALLY catches stax/Dstompy/general chalice players off guard.
They feel safe behind their wall of constant 0/1 countermagics, and then you kick em in the balls and drop 3 or 4 petals/chromes/LEDs
Also, don't knock that it can remove to a mox to play a brainstorm, then next turn your winning rituals.
@all who wonder: With counterbalance, it's all practice. I don't know how long I have played and played to be able fight down Counter-Top correctly.
And sometimes, yes, you are just screwed and you can't beat it. Shit happens, you'll do better next game.
I recently had a good match against it, I posted it over on the storm forums ...
2x Pyroblast/REB is actually the BEST way to handle it, in my opinion, but I know it isn't always easy.
Get them tapped out and blast CB, then blast in response to moving the top.
With the way players are skewing to dance around this deck by countering the tutors and such... is it worth it now to go back to maindecking more win conditions? I.E. Go back to the days of IGGy Pop by just simply sometimes trying to force 2 stacked Tendrils through instead of exposing oneself to a counter for the expected tutor?
EDIT - Orim's Chant is not enough for me. I keep finding Orim's Chant cast in response to my own, CB at 1... but I might run into more UGW builds than most...
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So... I have everything I need to put this together except the Chants. Is there any cheaper replacements for them? Abeyance? Pact of Negation?
Pact of Negation is a horrible card for this deck... because you have to dump it to go off on Infernal Tutor.
Best budget card to run while without chants is probably Xantid Swarm.
With all the blue running around, would I be able to perhaps get away with Pyroblast/REB maindeck in place of Chant? Or is Swarm still the best budget option? Perhaps Defense Grid? I wanted to be creature free (SSG not included).
Just remember that having creatures around makes your opponent's removal relevant, but they are forced to pack the removal instead of more hate.
Either can work, though. Don't use Pyro/REB maindeck. Autodead cards for some matchups absolutely suck for your hands.
There is no cheaper replacement that will do exactly what chant can do.
They are truly necessary. It's the best pro-active combo protection you can have.
Abeyance isn't TERRIBLE, but two is so steep to have to use before you combo.
Xantid gets killed, fast.
REB isn't so hot maindeck, even in a large field of blue.
Pyroblast is leaps and bounds over REB maindeck just because you can cast it on anything, blue or not.
If you ABSOLUTELY CAN'T get Orim's Chant's, and your meta is CRAMMED with blue, Pyroblast would be my suggestion.
With 2 REB, 4 Xantid in the board probably.
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