What are the adepts/mods/admins coming up with for the CaNG contest? I reckon that, as individuals marked for their knowledge and interest with the format, they might have some savage input.
The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
Originally Posted by herbig
You will, of course, have to wait and see!
I like this question. The first couple are obvious, but the last few slots are arguable.
I could come up with my list, but it would be missing major decks for lack of experience; for example, I've never played Deep6er playing Solidarity, and I've never played against one of the famed East Coast Enchantress players. That right there may make my list miss two of the decks that belong there.
InfoNinjas
Bump.
We're putting this back on the tracks after CANG(D)^3 diverted staff to other things.
So, does anyone have a good question or set of questions for the Adept Q&A forum?
Why is Angel Stax not getting more attention? When they beat so many high tier decks easily, why is it not played more? Is there a way to make the deck more consistent with draw or manipulation? Could a blue splash be beneficial?
1) Is this the most fun (or best) state the Legacy format has ever been?
2) How do you think the format would shift if Tarmogoyf was banned? Would Goblins go back to being the top deck?
I've never seen him so upset....or ever before.
Where is combo?
Several months ago Cephalid breakfast was a tier one deck... it had multiple top 8's at nearly every tournament. Belcher preceeded breakfast and had a very large number of top 8's... and before Belcher, TES was puuting up impressive results. Occasionally you will see a combo deck in the top 8 but ther realy are no combo decks currently in the format that are higher then tier 1.5. Solidarity fell off the radar and aluren will occasionally place. Control decks and aggro decks dominate top 8's but it seems that combo will only put up 1 player or sometimes none at all. Why is this?
Great question. Thanks. :) - Bardo
Last edited by Bardo; 03-13-2008 at 10:13 PM.
Call me Ishmael
I've went through the DtB-Forum, the Established Decks Forum and some non-janky N&D Threads.
In the following threads the general consensus is "We slaughter Threshold":
Landstill, Armageddon Stax, MUC, Dragon Stompy, Ichorid, Skybus, Gargangel Stompy, Not Quite Survival, The Truffle Shuffle, TEC, Vaka Pox
In the following threads most players claim "We have a very positive Threshold matchup":
UB Reanimator, Tombstone, Vial Affinity, TarmoTog, Goyf Sligh, Death and Taxes
In the following threads most people tend to say "Our Threshold matchup is even to slightly favored, with the right MB/SB choices it can be pushed to 'positive'":
Deadguy Ale, MeatHooks, Dreadstill, MossNought, Karach, Cephalid Breakfast, Enchantress, Eva Green
In the following threads people actually talk about having problems with the Threshold matchup:
AggroLoam, Goblins, Combo Decks (Spring Tide, Solidarity, TES, Iggy Pop, Belcher, Fetchland Tendrils)
Therefore, the conclusion of a Source-reading format newbie would be:
a) Threshold has a bad matchup against almost every non-combo deck.
b) Nobody is playing combo anyway
a) + b) = c) Threshold is horrible. Don't play it if you want to Top 8 in tournaments.
Historical Top8-Thread disagrees. Possible explanations of this contradiction could be:
1. People overestimate their pet decks, don't test the Threshold matchup properly and put up wrong numbers.
2. Actually Threshold is overrated, but since it is played by lots of skilled players who always win their bad matchups against scrubs and always reach Top 8, it's still a DtB.
3. Actually Threshold is overrated, but there are enough (combo-heavy?) metagames where it shines.
4. Threshold will soon fall off the throne of "the best deck in the format" because of the stated reasons. It'll just take some time.
Questions:
Which of those 4 explanations is true and to what extent? If 1. is true, which of the above listed decks should rather have a negative Threshold matchup? If 4. is true, how long will it take in your opinion? Also, are there other explanations beyond those 4?
Edit: To put it into one question (for a thread title): "Why is Threshold so successful?"
Last edited by Brehn; 03-26-2008 at 06:50 AM.
Team SPOD[23:08:50] <@Anusien> You want me to actually test?
[23:09:02] <frogboy> I thought you already had
What are the most playskill rewarding Legacy decks? As an example I believe Threshhold isn't a very easy deck, but it isn't very playskill rewarding either, because if you make some mistakes with cantrips or Dazes, as long as they are pretty minor the deck is still very strong. I hope to not only hear about combo decks.
Another question is: How do you think a good manabase is built?
Many people have said in the past that a deck cannot be viable unless it could deal with a first turn lackey. Is this still true? And what other requirements do decks have in todays metagame to be successful?
Giant Growth - not just lurking anymore
Closet noob.
Team Battletoads
(not affiliated with combat amphibians)
I suppose this would've been more fun last month (we almost talked Sr. Barnatello into writing an article called "WTF@MUC?"), but here goes:
What's up with the second tier? And, I suppose, third tier? They seem to keep popping up (a cursory glance shows that we don't have even a smattering of weird decks in the DTB forum) from time to time in top eights. In Spain a zoo deck played a singleton Bowdyr Heavyweights (which I confused with Bowdyr Intimidator and thought was awesome) in the last couple weeks. MUC has been putting up numbers. MUC. A deck without ways to deal with creatures and >4 winconditions.
What other weird decks do you predict showing up in the future? What's your favorite not-tier 1 deck?
The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
After looking at the DB forum, I see IGGy pop and Fetchland tendrils, the first was considered almost completely dead for a long time, and the other, at least as far as I know, wasn't even a deck until a few months ago. Considering that question #24 was "Where's the Combo?", and the aforementioned question wasn't asked that long ago, has the format started to, more or less, shift towards a combo heavier (not combo heavy, major difference between the two) metagame? Does anyone think that uberfast combo such as Dark Rit Belcher and SI (vast difference in the amount of protection between the two, but eh, can't always differentiate in detail) have a slot in the current metagame, or is the current state of the format more favorable to "combo-control" such as Fetchland Tendrils/ IGGy pop and TES (or perhaps not TES), running protection, answers to roadblocks and other things of the like in the MD? On that note, is Solidarity making a come back any time soon? (David Gearheart, I'm looking at you :P and also apologizing in advance for spelling).
Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?
If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
What are the top ten decks in the legacy format, and how would this list shift if tarmogoyf was banned.
~Hunter~-Team Battletoads(not affiliated with combat amphibians)
Shadowmoor's true effect on the legacy environment
The last three sets were great for legacy. Future sight created dragon stompy, made ichorid viable+, and gave us goyf. Lorwyn gave solid improvements to nearly every single deck in the format(ponder in thresh, thoughtseize in almost everything black, doran in rock, etc...) and morningtide gave us a creature so amazing that it pushed an almost forgotten deck into DTW status instantly. And then there's shadowmoor...
The cards at first thought to be good (shusher, mentor, fulminator mage) have been proven to be strictly worse then other options available. Cursecatcher and Wilt-leaf liege are both solid cards but the shells they go in are uncommon and relatively weak. The swans/chain of plasma combo, while resilient, seems rather mana intensive and combo/control decks have not done well in the past. Enchantress got a few bullets, but enchantress isnt played that much and they realy are only 1/2 ofs. Etc,etc,etc...
So my question: Will the metagame really change after shadowmoor is released, or are most of the cards more hype and speculation then viable.
Call me Ishmael
No love for The Servant's Stone?
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun." --Ash
The way I see it is that for a two card combo to truely work in legacy it requires 2 things: Easy mana cost and that both pieces dont suck without the other. The synergy has a decent cost and since ita all colorless it can be played in a variety of shells which is the best thing it has going for it. But the cards individually dont do shit. if you have 1 piece and not the other in a opening hand, you have 6 playable cards in your hand. Also, the combo runs the same amount of pieces as breakfast but its a turn slower, requires that you dont miss a land drop. I dont believe that this is a fair trade off for not using the graveyard.
Call me Ishmael
I don't agree with this, to a certain extent. Painter's Servant can do some serious damage if you play cards that are themselves useful on their own. For instance, there was talk of running Red Elemental Blast main-deck. That obviously is a slight risk someone would be willing to take, but under the circumstances, combo has a great match against aggro anyways. So in essence, that card even in the main helps beef up your control match and it has synergy with the Servant. Persecute is another card people have been referring to. It might be moderately slow, but it has its uses and can be devastating when resolved (against the control match).
You read above that mono-blue control is making a comeback. Again, Grindstone apparently can't suck that much. Give those cards a little more credit for what they can do with cards that are already useful, and not the latter. In reality, there's no such thing as a card sucking on its own - that's why there's 56 other selections to back each one up. I think this combo is very underrated and in the hands of a competent combo player, it could be potentially devastating. Until then, it's all on paper.
Edit: My question is: Should concepts that arise when a new set is released be considered 'tiered' until they are released? You may need results first, but it seems like there is a lot of interest building in this area.
How much impact do the posts on the Source actually impact Legacy deckbuilding? I've seen some pretty significant development go on in various threads on this site, deviating heavily from what was at one point accepted as the "proper" way to go about something, and yet it seems like everytime I read a tournament report there's a build that was deemed either "outdated" or "sub-optimal" by the source at large, yet it won anyway.
In short: Does The Source actually have it right with the developments that go on here, or is The Source really operating inside its own bubble?
So, here's one:
What cards do you keep trying to, for lack of a better word, "break"? By this, I don't mean "make broken", generally done by building a deck which revolves entirely around that card and which falls apart completely in its absence. I mean cards which are already Legacy playable or on the brink of it, which you think are stronger than commonly given credit for, and which you cannot seem to stop drafting decklists including, in an effort to realize the full potential you see in them. Maybe the card already sees play in some decks and strategies, but you keep thinking it should have wider applications; maybe it doesn't, but you keep thinking it should, somewhere.
I might be the only one who does this, but if not, it'd be interesting to see what cards everyone else is fascinated by.
(Note that this is not the same as the "underrated cards" question, which was a far more general case of basically cards which were widely agreed to be very powerful, broken or banned in previous formats, conspicuous by their absence in Legacy; not necessarily cards which you personally see something in which other people don't seem to (at least judging by the decks they play) and keep trying to bring that something out.)
SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
SummenSaugen: then I flip it over and crush my opponent
Adepts,
What do you see as the most underplayed strategies in the format? Do you see the format as being full of different roads to victory that are more competitive than they are being given credit for, or do you think that 1-4 strategies are simply stronger than the rest of the format, and would dominate utterly if only a few more people would play them?
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
