Thank you very much.
You just made smile a little.
And yes, the leylines would have been sweet to try out. And Sulfurs were definitely the biggest surprises of today. I'll never look at Akroma again, ever.
(Next time I'll probably play 4 of them..)
Seriously though, Sulfurs did EVERYTHING today; they raped a Bob. They came to beat through counter-wall. They crapped all over breakfast..
They are solid, and if you don't seriously have good reason to expect a strange and defined metagame they are the way to go. ( In goblins heavy-meta maulers are probably better but in any other case I'd go with sulfurs myself. )
And as a side-note: have noticed me complaining that we have only control here and no goblins and all? There were a whopping two goblins today!! Whoopee! Sadly, the lists were from 2002 or something.. And that fifth round beatz-list was a very successful metagame-call. I mean the deck sucks, sure, but it beats the living shit out of control :)
MD Pyrokinesis? Or what?Originally Posted by Phantom
I think it's really hard to get away from 2-3 Jittes. Jitte does so much and it fits so perfectly in the curve. Turn one any 3-drop threat / Turn two Jitte/Equip/Swing is a nice opening against an incredibly large number of decks. Jitte covers lifegain, removal, a way around protection from red, and an increased clock. Not to mention it gets rid of opponent's Jittes, which can cause you severe problems. I'll concede that it is possible that Jitte could eventually become a sideboard card, but as of right now I feel it just wins too many games.
I agree mostly.
2 Jittes do not clog your hand in any way, or if you feel like they clog, you should change to ***** since we also play sloggers and dragons, and they do sometimes clog up. And so does multiple lands.
Anyways, I think 2-3 md jittes and 1-2 sb is good atm.
It's only that I have never won a single game because of jitte. It has made me not lose sometimes though, which is almost as good. For me it's just that there is nothing good enough to justify not running Jittes. They are, however, constantly under scrutiny.
(As a side note: I wish we could play seven pithing needles. That would be the correct number in the sideboard.)
Last edited by deviant; 03-22-2008 at 06:44 PM. Reason: Not meant to Phantom, just saying things.
I have. Quite a lot, in fact. Jitte bails your ass out of the fire against Burn, wrecks Goblins when you don't have a Slogger (A Jitte'd Mauler is absolute insanity), slaughters a lot of black aggro decks, gives you game-1 prowess against creature-based combo, and lets your guys get big enough to beat a Tarmogoyf on the ground. And they eat face against random decks like that round 5 thing you faced. And without any equipment, you really have to quit counting your Simian Spirit Guides as threats. Jitte makes them actually relevant.
Jitte wins games because Jitte bails you out of more unexpected situations than any one other card in the deck you can possibly imagine.
I might only play six. But I concur. Four is often too few.(As a side note: I wish we could play seven pithing needles. That would be the correct number in the sideboard.)
A couple, and like a bazillion threats. I actually started it to see the difference between Mauler, Akroma, and Sulfur by running all of them. No one had to tell me how nuts Jitte is here or anywhere, it's just that it's kinda crappy in a some matchups.
The build is just a ton of fun to play, and making mox choices is like being a kid in a candy store (or me in a liquor store). It just kills the board though trying to fit in Jitte, Trini, Needle, Crypt, and the remaining Blood Moons. On MWS though I face little to no Storm and yard combo, so I cut back on the Trinis and Crypts.
I've never seen him so upset....or ever before.
I messed around with a 26-threat build where the entire deck was Threats, Manabase, 4 Chalice, 4 Moon. It worked fairly well, actually, it just felt like there wasn't enough room in the sideboard and that I had a lot of problems without the Jitte maindeck. The pair just adds so much versatility to the deck at so little a cost.
Also, on Sulfur-versus-Mauler, I'm fixing to be at a crossroads given that in today's tournament three of my four matches were Goblins, Goblins, Cephalid Breakfast (I was playing Survival, though.) Interesting options.
About Mauler being sweet against goblins:
I understand the point was that he blocks lackey despite of possible warren weirding? (Or at least that's where he's really good at.)
But so does Magus? They only have red mana now, and magus blocks lackeys all day long.
Just this other day I played against R/g/b Goblins on MWS, they started with badlands, lackey. I went Magus. They played a taiga and a second lackey. I just played a land. He attacked with two lackeys to my lone Magus and yes, of course I had the sulfur, but he really couldn't afford to hold back and wait for slogger now could he? So now I had stuff, and he didn't. I proceeded to play chalices at one and two and then some hellbent action finished the game quick. Good times.
The point: I'm with sulfur for now.
Hi guys, I have some thoughts I would like discussed.
1. Is Bloodmoon #4 MD material??? I often stumble into to many moon effect causing me to lose to much of my pressure. What is your experience?
2. I am sticking to Sulfur Elemental because of the tricks he can pull off (suprise block / kill stuff in certain matchups like breakfast / dodge counters / play EOT -> equip attack next turn). I found that he is literally begging for equipment to seal a game out of nowhere. So what is a sufficent number of equipments to run considering 3-4 MD sulfurs and 4 SSG???
3. I have 3 slots for equipment at the moment ( 3 Jitte). My question is if there are alternatives to jitte worth consideration ??? SoFaI doesn´t do to well with hellbent and dragon. SoLaS compensates lifeloss due to tomb, gets craetures out of grave if needed, could get multiple chewer if played in SB in certain metas, protection from swords, vindicate,....no idea. Grafted Wargear can easily be played on a first turn magus and equiped the same turn making it a reasonable clock and getting him to a good size but can be a 2 for 1 trade and does no extra tricks. Lightning greaves protects your dragons and such from bolts, swords and stuff and can cause a faster kill.....
4. Since 3Sphere is Sb material by now, wouldn´t be Thorn of amethyst be a better choice? It cripples Storm combo as well, hits cantrip plans as well, multiple get better, doesnt hurt your 24 creature plan in case you get manacrippled, is an almost 100% first turn drop with almost any hand, sometimes can even be played turn 2 along with a second card netting a turn (example : trun1 -> Chalice at one ; turn 2 -> Thorn + Moon or jitte or morph...causing the creature drop to be nearly countersafe), doesn´t suck as bad with pyrokinesis but does interfere with chalice @ 2. ->Thoughts?
Just trying to get some pro/con discussion going that goes beyond..... that XY card won me games....
Against a top tier metagame, the general consensus is yes. A turn one Blood Moon can wreak havoc against decks that pack 6-8 basics even, due to its ability to shut off fetchlands. It's one of the few cards you can run that can immediately win a game no questions asked. It turns all your land Red for abusing Slogger / Pit Dragon once they're down. And if it sucks, you've got eight maindeck ways to ditch the thing.
Creatures + Equipment = 26 is a good guideline.2. I am sticking to Sulfur Elemental because of the tricks he can pull off (suprise block / kill stuff in certain matchups like breakfast / dodge counters / play EOT -> equip attack next turn). I found that he is literally begging for equipment to seal a game out of nowhere. So what is a sufficent number of equipments to run considering 3-4 MD sulfurs and 4 SSG???
It's hard to not run Jitte given that most equipment in magic A: Costs more mana, and B: does less. SOFI is a weak choice unless you plan to face the mirror a lot, and SOLS is just generally a weaker card. Loxodon Warhammer's too expensive, Lightning Greaves is awful. Grafted Wargear is underrated and pretty neat, but the 2-for-1 thing is kind of a risk.3. I have 3 slots for equipment at the moment ( 3 Jitte). My question is if there are alternatives to jitte worth consideration ??? SoFaI doesn´t do to well with hellbent and dragon. SoLaS compensates lifeloss due to tomb, gets craetures out of grave if needed, could get multiple chewer if played in SB in certain metas, protection from swords, vindicate,....no idea. Grafted Wargear can easily be played on a first turn magus and equiped the same turn making it a reasonable clock and getting him to a good size but can be a 2 for 1 trade and does no extra tricks. Lightning greaves protects your dragons and such from bolts, swords and stuff and can cause a faster kill.....
Jitte is really your best choice, though. I'm of the personal opinion that any deck running any equipment other than Umezawa's Jitte without first running four Umezawa's Jitte is worth looking at for re-examination. Jitte solves most of your problems the deck can't solve otherwise in one cheap, easy to cast card.
Probably not. Thorn of Amethyst actually hurts you. Trinisphere doesn't much. Trinisphere's 3-cost is infinitely more important against decks that play free spells, also, such as anything with Dread Return or Force of Will. And Trinisphere negates most black and red mana accelerants found in Storm Combo rather than just making them weaker.4. Since 3Sphere is Sb material by now, wouldn´t be Thorn of amethyst be a better choice?
Neither one is especially a powerhouse given that the deck still has no real mana quantity denial to accompany it, but there are a good number of decks that are completely wrecked by Trinisphere whether there's backup or not. Less are hosed by Thorn.[/QUOTE]
How many decks would maindeck artifact removal? Deed [and Punishment] would have to be set to three, and that would kill what ever creature it's on sans Dragon and Slogger. Sulpher Elemental becomes a 6/4. Jitte can make it a 7/6, but only after is has counters. People will side in artifact/enchantment removal in game two, but they do that anyway and Wargear can come out for Pyrokineis or something.
Not to say that Grafted Wargear is better then Jitte or Swords. Those are flat out better.
Goblins often maindecks Tin-Street Hooligan. Half the BGW Dorangoyf decks in the universe regardless of speed or classification run Vindicate. Some Threshold builds run a Rushing River. Eva Green, which is a questionable matchup anyway, runs maindeck Seal of Primordium. Survival runs at least a maindeck Harmonic Sliver or Stomphowler, and usually an artifact remover as a Burning Wish target in builds that run Wish. Death and Taxes can get 2 for 1 via Mangara of Corondor. And I don't think we're far off from the time when a few decks start maindecking Krosan Grip. And none of this is counting sideboard options. All of these pretty much do the trick, and any one of them can cause you to lose a game.
Grafted Wargear is too scary to run in a well-crafted metagame.
That's a lot more then I though. I was only thinking of Landstill and decks that side Krosan Grip. It seems as though there are no apt replacements for Jitte, unless there's some red/artifact card that speeds up your clock, acts as removal, or both.
How can this be possible? 30 cards in the deck are mana sources (8 2 mana lands, 4 Song, 4 SSG, 4 Mox, 10 Mountains), and then you are running 4 Chalice. In addition you just said that the 4th Blood Moon MD is prolly a good call, so thats another 4, and also theres the possibility of some number a 3spheres MD. I just dont see how Threats + Equipment can equal more than 22-23 unless Im really missing something...
EDIT: I just realized SSG is creature, my bad...Ill leave this up though in case anyone else was confused.
I will post here my current list that includes many of your suggestions - thank you guys at this point.
10xMountain
4xAncient Tomb
4xCity of Traitors
4xGathan Raiders
4xMagus of the Moon
4xRakdos Pit Dragon
4xArc Slogger
4xSSG
3x Sulfur Elemental
3xJitte
4xChalice of the Void
4xBlood Moon
4xSeething Song
4xChrome Mox
Sideboard:
4xPyrokinesis
4xPithing Needle
4x3Sphere
3xCrypt
Points I am not sure on:
1)maybe I should move 1 moon to the SB ->max sulfur and cut 1 3Sphere
2)is crypt needed? or are cards vs. tokens/artefacts/blue... more useful (Ingot Chewer, Shattering Spree, PowderKeg,REB.....)
3)Is 3 the right number for equipments? If not is the 4th equipment an extra Jitte or something else (maybe wargear to turn the weak creatures into threats and up the clock)???
4)Has anyone really tested the Thorns???
Thanks for ideas...
Crypts are good against Ichorid, Breakfast, Tog, ***** and whatnot. I consider them worth the slot.
4 Trinispheres are overkill though, if not by chance you play only against ***** and storm combo, and in that case they should be maindecked.
I would, however, cut them from the sb, if storm (or recruiter aluren?!) isn't prevalent.
Maindeck looks good though, It's almost exactly my last build (see my report for reference if nothing better to do). Only things I would consider changing are -1 Jitte +1 Sulfur (a preference call), but if you do this, make sure you have the 3rd Jitte in your sb. Then the Sulfurs could be Maulers, but I preference Sulfur atm. I will, however, probably play Maulers next time just to give them a whirl.
And in the sb, I think it should look like this:
4 Needle
3-4 Pyrokinesis
0-1 Jitte
3-4 Crypt
0/2/3 Trinisphere
0-4 ReB (if heavily control meta, and even then maybe not. I find counter-heavy control manageable even without, and ReB's a bit narrow.)
And 0-3 Shattering Spree?
And about the Thorns - I did consider them at the point where I wanted to find a secret blowout-tech and rule the world, but they're just not meant to be. Trini is better for the purpose of hampering opponents play, and it gets less in our way, and even trini is dubious.
@Chiller: I like that list. Solid.
I might distantly suggest going down to three Trinispheres in side. Multiple is never good, even in matches you really need them. You could add a fourth Tormod's Crypt, or a fourth Jitte, or a single random other card you feel you might need.
As for the Crypts, I find them to be worthwhile. You need yard hate for Ichorid, Cephalid Breakfast, and 600 other random things that abuse the yard. It's worth noting, though, that I don't personally advocate boarding Tormod's Crypt in against Threshold.
So we ditched singleton Akroma for good now?
"I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize!"
Meh. I think it's meta dependant (she's good in heavy control metas), but overall, Sulfur Elemental seems to be the best option.
I used starcitygames.com Advanced Card Search for all Red creatures with CMC = 3. There were a few that piqued my interest, but Sulfur Elemental was the best out of what I saw.
Quoted from a few pages ago:
If you're going to splash green (although it would seem that any stompy deck would almost have to be mono color), maybe take a look at Quagnoth. My guess is that it's a trick hint, and you're talking about Giant Solifuge.
Any results on this mystery tech?
Does this rag smell like chloroform to you?
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