The Most Influential Legacy Deck Builder Contest

[Peter_Rotten]

The Most Influential Legacy Deck Builder Contest

Cast your vote for your favorite Legacy deck builder. Which deck and deck builder, in your opinion, has influenced or shaped the Legacy format the most? Which creation is the best? Which deck have you seen most often or have played yourself?

Only one vote per member! NO fake accounts! The winner receives his own special user group with access to certain forums only allowed to Mods (aka, the Douche Forums, the WoW Forums, and the Archived Forums) and bragging rights! He will also be allowed to link to his creation in his signature (a practice that the Mods normally frown upon).

Here are the contestants and their decks:

• Anwar – Red Death (and to a smaller degree Eva Green)
• IBA – Trainwreck, TruffleShuffle, Rabid Wombat
• WastedLife – TES
• Cavius the Great – Nourishing Lich
• Tacosnape – DragonStompy
• Hatfields – various Thresh evolutions
• Konsultant – Tombstone
• iOWN - Mossnought
• Other?

[Peter_Rotten]

Personally, although I don't like the deck, I think that TES has probably made the most impact on the format - even going across the seas. Dragonstompy is a very close second to me.

[Eldariel]

Since it feels wrong to vote for myself, I'm gonna say Tacosnape (and Phantom) with Dragon Stompy. I mean, no other deck made such a huge splash (with such a huge number of players) in Worlds save for the cookie cutters that can't be really credited to a single creator. I'd say the Hatfields and Wastedlife should be up there too going just by numbers.

[Pinder]

I like TES, but it seems like the only person who can win with it is Bryant. It's a really cool deck, but I'm not sure it's made a huge impact on Legacy as a whole.

I voted for the Hatfields, for various iterations of Thresh. Specifically Moon Thresh, which was quite an innovation in that it managed to abuse Blood Moon in a similar fashion to Dragon Stompy and by the same right be nearly immune to Blood Moon from Dragon Stompy.

Also, they made a five color Thresh list and both made Top8 with it in a 50 man tournament. Who else can do that?

[TeenieBopper]

I had to vote for the Hatfields. The only thing that even comes close is DragonStompy, but that's simply the hot new thing. Thresh has been around for the past, what, three years?

[Nihil Credo]

Had this simply been 'best' deck designer(s), I would have voted Hatfields.

However, it said most influential deck designer. In that case, I have to vote for Tacosnape. Dragon Stompy is what really made Blood Moons a staple of the format, and its influence was felt in the manabases of practically every other deck out there. No other deck out in the list has changed the format so much. For an extra bonus, throw in that his work made 4C Landstill a consistent and successful deck that could be played without cheating.

[Dilettante]

I had to vote for Bryant... in terms of making Storm Combos more mainstream in general, but not for TES as affecting the metagame by itself... but definitely torn between that and Dragon Stompy. It's right that Bryant seems to be the only one making a mark with TES, but... not enough players use the deck. I haven't seen another TES player since mid-last-year near inception... and people don't want to pick up the deck because of the learning curve and/or cost. Instead, what I see propogating around here are Ichorid and Dragon Stompy. Dragon Stompy eats a portion of the format and is cheap to build, and thus, captures more economy-conscious players... as are variants of Ichorid. Dragon Stompy forces players to be more conscious of their 1-2 drops and non-basic lands... as does Countertop, but TES/storm combo dramatically bumped the speed of the game up before Ichorid to make that a factor in decisions. Right now, we are in a nice little sweet spot in the metagame where one has to balance speed and vulnerability... Turn 1 Vial/Lackey feels 'slow' now... and it's a battle from draw to finish.

[goobafish]

The title of the Poll is Most Influential Deck Builder, that is a very important distinction.

I voted for the Hatfields.

Their work on various ***** lists and their Breakfast list combined with their results with the decks they created was very influential to players who wished to pilot that archetype. Their lists are often copied and almost always used as a basis for lists of those archetypes.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Since even the other decks up for contention are defined by their Threshold match-ups, I think it's kind of a no-brainer.

[Ewokslayer]

I voted for the Hatfields. Their work on Threshold since its early days has made it a force in Legacy. Bryant is probably second with the impact that TES and Storm has had on Legacy.

[SpatulaOfTheAges]

Also, Cavius the Great? Seriously?

Can any of the people who've voted for him defend their choice?

[Pinder]

Also, Cavius the Great? Seriously?

Can any of the people who've voted for him defend their choice?

I didn't vote for him (I don't think he's really influential), but I suppose you could make an argument that he always thinks outside the box. I mean, sure, 90% of the stuff he comes up with probably won't make a dent in the metagame, but honestly, who else thinks of combos like Nourishing Shoal + Lich? As a sort of uber-Johnny, he consistently demonstrates and contributes completely new and fresh (if perhaps not incredibly fearsome) deck ideas. He really gets the creative juices flowing, if you know what I mean.

[Ewokslayer]

I really should be on this list.

Look at all the decks I invented in my sig.

[Waikiki]

I go for Tacosnape.

Last tournament I went consisted of 20 players and 5 played dragon stompy.
Blood moon is really something to think of before starting to build a manabase.

[etrigan]

Alan Comer, for creating the best deck in Legacy twelve years ago. But yeah, Hatfields ftw.

Honorable mention to Eldariel for inventing the concept of Chalice Aggro, of which Dragon Stompy is a derivation.

Also honorable mention to Gearhart, for succeeding in completely pushing Landstill out of the metagame for a while.

Dishonorable mention to myself for not knowing what Tombstone is. i sux.

[calosso]

I voted for the Hatfields, since MoonThresh almost got me a t8 in in NY (FUK BREAKERS).

Also please remove Cavius from there, it must be some sick joke.

[VsTheWorld]

My vote goes to the Hatfields for Thresh. Thresh defines Legacy in my mind, so I feel it would be wrong to vote for anybody else. Plus 2 top 8 spots with 5c Thresh. WTF??

Honorable mention goes to Eldariel for pushing Chalice Aggro as an archetype and Tacosnape for unleashing the metagame beast that is Dragon Stompy.

[Bovinious]

If Cavius and his joke deck can be on there, you should put me and Pitch World on there too, srsly

Oh and I voted for the Hatfields because they pretty much invented Thresh, tho John F. Rizzo woulda gotten my vote if he was on there for inventing Friggorid, which of course evolved into the aggro-combo deck Ichorid we all know and love today

[Tacosnape]

IBA ought to get more recognition than the numbers are showing. Nobody else has built more good control decks while simultaneously being allergic to the color blue.

Also, where's the poll love for Eldariel (and for that matter, Gearhart?) I'd probably vote for Eldariel if he was on there.

[Parcher]

All right. To quote the great Popeye, "I've had all I can stands and I can't stands no more!"

Please pay close attention.....just because someone writes a copious amount of garbage on any given topic, they do not instantly become an authority on said topic.

Everyone who actually reads through The Source knows that John Daily and I developed the winning versions of Full Slogger. We didn't call it Dragon Stompy, as that deck was awful. If you read through the original Dragon Stompy thread, every version is at least 22 cards different than the versions that actually have won tournaments. I will at least give Phantom credit for realizing Sulfur Elemental belongs, which is yet another card the deck's "creator" bashes.

For reference, I have listed every relevant version below:

First, from 10/13/07

Dragon Stompy 2.0 created by Tacosnape

//Mana (26)
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song

(Creatures - 18)
2 Squee, Goblin Nabob
4 Bloodrock Cyclops
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 Flametongue Kavu
3 Razormane Masticore
1 Arc-Slogger

(Spells - 16)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Rolling Earthquake
4 Pyrostatic Pillar

SB:
3 Smash
4 Boil
4 Tormod's Crypt
4 Blood Moon

It should be noted that the "Version 2.0" posted above is a completely outdated list, however.

"Care to share your list with us, Tacosnape?"

"Yes please show the list Taco.".....ask The Source members.

But.....no. Not for months. In fact, the only sekret tekz latest list posted anywhere actually shows up in the Empty the Slogger thread on 7/11/07:

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Rolling Earthquake
4 Pyroclasm

4 Sulfur Elemental
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 Gathan Raiders
3 Flametongue Kavu
2 Arc-Slogger
2 Razormane Masticore

SB: (Drop 1 of the following based on metagame/preference)
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Epochrasite
4 Pithing Needle

See anything familiar? I don't. And yet a mere two days after I win at TML III, suddenly this list magically appears:

10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Chrome Mox
4 Seething Song

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 Arc-Slogger
2 Razormane Masticore

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Blood Moon
2 Trinisphere

SB:
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Pithing Needle
2 Powder Keg
2 Trinisphere
1 Blood Moon

Now is it possible that this still sub-par list was being held sekret by someone who averages four freakin' post a day?! Or is it likely, as per usual, someone again waits until a better idea presents itself, and then claims credit knowing most could care less. Remember that all lists looked like this up to a month before The Mana Leak, and all current work on the deck in the new thread is based off of that model.

Anyone who has even played against the deck knows that the two most fearsome threats are Moon effects and Trinisphere, which are glaringly absent. The most feared creature is Arc-Slogger, which is again run at a sub-optimal amount. And the most versitle card in the deck due to it's ability to swing, ramp mana, allow combat tricks, and facilitate Hellbent is completely trashed.

Wait...wait. Just so it doesn't look like these lists may be taken out of context, here is some of the brilliant reasoning behind them:

This is why Simian Spirit Guide is bad. It's either a really bad mana accelerant (A mere ) or a really bad threat (a mere 2/2.) And by the way, all threats power 2 or less are bad threats in this deck, thanks largely to Ancient Tomb and Rolling Earthquake limiting the number of spells you can cast per game. Magus of the Moon, for example, is a bad threat. However, his disruption power is so strong that he's quite playable. Simian Spirit Guide trades the amazing game-winning Magus ability for the ability to add to your pool, once, at the cost of a card.

1. Trinisphere sucks. No, seriously. It was bad pre-Flash and it's even worse post-Flash.

2. Simian Spirit Guide also sucks. Not kidding. Mox, Tomb, and Seething Song are all you need.

Magus is not an auto-play in the non land-denial versions.

The only decks he hurts bad enough to completely cripple in one shot are UGW Threshold (Not UGR, due to burn), and Landstill. Either of these decks can Force him on turn one. Threshold can Daze him or just ride the Tarmogoyf they have to Victory. Landstill scoffs at him, as Landstill just leaves its mana untapped and floats the appropriate color mana to STP/Edict/Whatever him. Or, if Landstill's got a Deed down, Magus is irrelevant.

On top of that, Dragon Stompy maindecks anywhere from 4-8 boardsweepers that kill Magus of the Moon. Rolling Earthquake is an auto 4-of, and recent versions are packing Pyroclasm as well (Though maindecking the Clasm is a metagame call.)

You don't need Squee, Goblin Nabob for Razormane Masticore to be ridiculously good.

I post less than any on this deck in the thread, as I have already done the work. I know what wins. If you read the lists that make top 8, you will notice a similar pattern, all falling after Empty the Slogger, directly to the TML III list. I find it highly irritating that someone who has consistantly shown that they haven't the first clue about actual tournament play with a deck is the default authority because they can hit "Submit Reply" button in a thread quickly. It makes me sad that too many are led astray from proven results just because no one could possibly be expected to keep refuting the constant barrage of inane ramblings of one "Adept".

I love the Hatfields, and this is not meant to be derogatory to them at all, but comparing the decks winning tournaments currently to the "Dragon Stompy" decks is like saying that Alan Comer created modern Threshold. While there may be comparisons in theory, they are so different in practicallity, effeciency, and application as to be totally different in play. Excepting the fact that in this case, the same card pool was available, and simply not used.