Leyline of Lifeforce isn't bad as a Trinisphere replacement in SB if you've got a metagame full of Threshold, Landstill, and Control. You'd be amazed how easily you can steamroll these decks when they can't counter your dudes.
The only drawbacks are that it takes up sideboard slots that could help in other matchups, and that it will occasionally fuck with your Hellbent. The latter drawback is what keeps me from strongly advocating it in anything but the Bluemost metagames.
Also, be careful about keeping mana-light hands dependent on Chrome Mox with a Leyline, as a lot of decks will suddenly decide that countering that Mox looks like a more appealing idea.
Originally Posted by majikal
Hi guys,
I played a small turnament last weekend (20 players). I played the List I posted a page back or so.
Ended up #6:
1. WhiteStaxx: Lost 1-2
I have no answer to artifacts and propaganda. They donīt roll over to Moon, 3Sphere and Chalice.
2. 1-Land Belcher Won 2-0
Chalice@0 does the trick. Boarded 4 Needle, 4 Pyrokinesis and 3 Trini ;-)
3. Life.dec Won 2-0
Preboard won me a Chalice @1. Postboard I got the Needle vs. Vial
4. Burn Lost 1-2
I play Tomb, he plays basics :-( He played Ensnaring Bridge main which won him game 1 . I have nothing to board and he boards sulfuric vortex but has no shattering spree in board. I lose again even though i had chalice 1 and 2
5. AggroLoam Won 2-1
Stupid games: both get manascrewed due to bad draws or get mana overkill ( Loam Player got 6 manas in a row he didnīt draw anything else but mana!)
I got Lucky and won
A little artifact hate would have been handy in the SB. Any ideas, experience or suggestions?
Please note that I only played against decks that donīt care about Moon effects :-(
I've tested Keldon Vandals, but they're not really impressive due to the echo. That Lorwyn elemental costs a little too much as a beatstick, but could be useful in some situations, there is only Shattering Spree really worth looking into.
Why isn't this in the "Decks to Beat" forum? it has won several tournaments already..
"I'd kill for a Nobel Peace Prize!"
Shattering Spree is your best artifact hate plan for sideboard. Period.
Despite the fact that you -boarded- Trinispheres, did you ever actually play one in those matches? If not, then you steamrolled two combo decks without it.
Stax is kind of coin-flippy, considering whichever deck is going first is favored and Ghostly Prison's really the only thing you care a lot about. Your best bet against Stax is insanely turbocharged power threats followed by Chalice for 0 to stop their Moxes. Shattering Spree can make a difference, but Ghostly Prison's still your bigger threat.
I'm still amazed at how often people lose to Burn with this deck given Chalice + Jitte, but Ensnaring Bridge is admittedly pretty random shit for Legacy. DS does tend to lose to jank, which is its biggest problem.
Your biggest concern was that you managed to play 5 matches, 4 of which Blood Moon is completely awful against. You might consider shipping two of your four Blood Moons to the sideboard in this metagame, or contemplate a different deck altogether.
@ Tacosnape:
Thanks for the Input.
I wasnīt really complaining about the deck. I was rather suprised that I ended up beeing Top 6 even though I had to face a lot of difficult matchups. Next time I might have different matchups in which Moon gets to kick ass.
The Deck I will play this weekend including artifact hate:
10 Mountain
4 City
4 Tomb
4 Gathan
4 RPD
4 SSG
4 MotM
4 Arc Slogger
4 Sulfur
3 Moon
3 Jitte
4 Seething Song
4 Mox
4 Chalice
SB
4 Needle
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Crypt
2 Trinisphere (starting to think that this card is not needed in most matchups and the matchups that 3sphere is good for the rest of the sideboard does the job as well)
3 Shattering Spree
Found an old video explaining this prototype although it is very badly explained:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N0VG...eature=related
Is this what you were looking for? (from new edition)
Gouger, unfortunately... is probably harder to cast in this deck than ARCSLOGGER... I'm afraid 3R is a lot harder than it looks... and Gathan Raiders makes it look like a chump, still.
Gouger's awful here. We play bigger guys with greater ease that can block. He'll be fantastic in some Sui Black-esque builds, but in Dragon Stompy, triple mana symbols are a nightmare we want no part of.
Although I must admit I am completely intrigued to see what the triple/
hybrid spell is.
Nothing else looks particularly awesome at the moment. Rosheen might be okay with Demonfire, but neither one's overwhelmingly good. The Creamtor guy is bad. And Scuzzback Marauders is actually sort of neat (Trample + Persist = Badass), but the 5-cost means he's gotta compete with Arc-Slogger.
Wait...I don't play this deck anymore, but Trinisphere is BAD now? In my experience, Moon and 3 Sphere were the 2 best disruption pieces in the deck.
Trinisphere isn't bad. It's just that Trinisphere has absolutely nothing backing it up in the mana denial department, making it less than ideal in certain metagames. It's still a facebeating against combo and Threshold, and while it's awesome on turn one (or even two on the play), it's absolute suck most other times. For example, when you lose the die roll.
Due to a lot of control and mid-range aggro heavy on the 3CC slot in my metagame, I've relegated Trinisphere to sideboard.
I've done the same as well with mine... I don't see enough storm combo... and it only *really* helps against Ichorid really otherwise... People are starting to get used to it and prepare to play around it... but once they forget...
Looks like a great creature to Ritual out into play and start hitting on turn one but if you end up on the defensive then tough tihs.Is this what you were looking for? (from new edition)
trinisphere helpsme a lot vs burn (chalice does it alone but... you cant have it allways :P)
true in most game states.
I have been playing an extended game and my opponent played a card I think should be worth trying in the Dragon Stompy.
It is Fury of the Horde: Sorcery 5RR "You may remove two red cards in your hand from the game rather than pay Fury of the Horde's mana cost.
Untap all creatures that attacked this turn. After this main phase, there is an additional combat phase followed by an additional main phase."
With our big creatures it could be definitive to have an extra combat phase. And of course, it would also help reaching Hellbent.
The bad thing would be the Hellbent itself. If we topdeck it when we have Hellbent it will be very difficult to get rid of...
Maybe I will try it in the OCTGN and I will tell you the results (if I get to find opponents there)
I tried test-drawing 2 Blazing Shoal MD instead of the 2 Jittes (in the list with 4 Sulfur Elemental + 8 Moon + 0 Trini MD) and found it did some interesting things for the Hellbent cause. Maybe something other than Jitte could be substituted, but having all red cards is nice. Is this idea stupid?
I would like some suggestions for a metagame-specific build of this archetype. The tournament I'm planning to bring this one to is a large one (over 100 players); the Emilian region is known for its extremely conservative players, who rarely deviate from their trademark decks: R/W Goblins, UGW/UGR Thresh, and 4C Landstill (often with Tombstalker/Goyf) are going to be common sights, with some Pikula-style BGW lists thrown in. People will of course come from all over Italy, but since it's a large event I expect them to stick with their tested decks as well.
On the basis of those assumptions, I was considering the following list:
// Lands
10 [UNH] Mountain
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
// Creatures
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
4 [MR] Arc-Slogger
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
4 [DIS] Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 [FUT] Gathan Raiders
2 [MOR] Taurean Mauler
1 [PLC] Akroma, Angel of Fury
// Spells
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [9E] Seething Song
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [9E] Blood Moon
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [PLC] Akroma, Angel of Fury
SB: 3 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 4 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [10E] Pyroclasm
SB: 3 [AT] Pyrokinesis
8 Blood Moons seem an auto-include in this metagame (Dragon Stompy is also basically unplayed in Italy, so they should be particularly strong). Taurean Mauler is often better than Sulfur Elemental against Threshold, especially UGR, and almost always against Goblins; Akroma is a bomb against 4C Landstill that also outfights Tombstalkers.
The Pyroclasms in the SB are supposed to send the Goblins matchup into total overkill mode, since I think it's the most difficult one among the Big Threes; for them I sacrificed the usual Spree/Crypt slots, which I don't expect to need much. I wonder, though, if I could make a better use of these slots; if I found another card that helps other matchups while also improving Goblins, I could be content with running that plus 4 Pyrokinesis. Maybe I could play Earthquakes instead, which double as a burn spell?
For the time being, the boarding plans are:
4C Landeed:
-3 Jitte
-2 Mauler
+1 Akroma
+4 Needle
Generic UGW/UGR Thresh:
+3 Trinisphere
-1 Slogger
-1 Akroma
-1 Jitte
Goblins:
+4 Pyroclasm
+3 Pyrokinesis
-4 Blood Moon
-2 Magus of the Moon, -1 Akroma
On the draw, add: -4 Chalice of the Void, +4 Pithing Needle
Thoughts?
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
I would go:
-1 Akroma
-1 Jitte
+2 Mauler
And then seriously reconsider would I feel comfortable enough with the maulers over sulfurs. Sulfurs were, for me at least, a mvp against every deck playing blue. Then again - when you drop a mauler 1st turn, and follow that with must-counter threats, you also win. (moons, dragons, sloggers, then they start to wonder if that mauler should have been forced after all.)
If I'd play maulers, I'd play them as a four-of, because that's one more card you want to draw in your opening hand. Not randomly topdeck. Also, a one-of akroma just brings awkward situations and rarely does anything more fancy than raiders-impersonation.
The sb does NOT appeal to me at all however.
Seriously, Akroma does not outclass sulfur. Either one can't be countered, and against landstill you should try to put pressure on them and win as fast as possible and not wait the topdeck akroma. At first I thought it would give us a resemblance of late-game, but why bother?
And there will be ww, breakfast and whatnot if it's over 100 people tournament.
In a competitive meta, which can present any competitive deck, I'd go with:
1 jitte (assuming only 2 main)
2-3 Trinisphere
4 Needle
3-4 Pyrokinesis
3 Crypt (maybe, maybe not. This is the debatable slot imo)
But the more I think of this, the more I think these are preference-calls more than "optimal list"-things. If there will be a lot of goblins, then maybe mauler will shine, but then I'd try and put something in my sb that improves my landstill mu's. And I don't think Akroma makes the cut. Pyroblast maybe? Propably not.
Seems stupid to sb sulfurs.. and I'm really averse to Akroma.
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