So if not blood moon, what card would you suggest in addition to price of progress to increase this decks chances of winning? Cause I am having a hard time winning games, and I was hoping to increase those odds of winning... I know the deck simply isn't as competitive as other decks, but I think it might be possible to make it more competitive, especially with the release of some new good cards in shadowmoore like vexing shusher.Originally Posted by Bovinious
"He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."
I am not sure what to put in those last few slots either, I am testing Char at the moment, but we will see.
@ Bovinious - thanks for the tip mate, took the colour out of my post!
I thought about more flame rifts... but I don't want to run more than 1 or 2 of those considering they damage me for 4 as well... So I am honestly not sure what other than the Blood Moon I could possibly run in the deck. Except maybe Incinerates... or the new Char card....
"He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."
The whole point of Burn is to win the game as fast as possible. Stalling the game with spells like Blood Moon may work in theory but in reality most decks now days can deal with blood moon. Plus blood moon is a terrible draw when you are playing off the top. A moon effect is really not needed to make this deck more effective.
Unless you are playing against an aggro deck or a mirror, who cares if you take 4 damage from a Flame Rift? I mean 90% of the time your opponent will be at or bellow 11 by the end of the second turn. Burn doesn't really care about life loss, to a point, Flame rift is a fine choice. Char is ok, but there are 3 or 4 spells I would play over it. Pulse of the Forge, Flames of the Blood Hand, Flame Javelin (From Shadowmoor) or Incinerate are all better choices.
Here is the list I will be testing after the Shadowmoor release:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
4 Fireblast
4 Manamorphose
4 Vexing Shusher
3 Price of Progress
3 Magma Jet
3 Flamebreak
3 Flame Rift
1 Shard Volley
3 Barbarian Ring
16 Mountain
I don't post side boards because they are really meta specific...
Team Fat Man & Little Boy
Okay, I'm a new member but a very old player
I rarely play burn in tournament. In fact, my friends that don't own legacy cards borrow me a burn deck.
After a lot of talk about burn decks, we are all convinced that the less lands you play, the more chance you have to don't loose the game. In that philosophy, spells that don't cost 1 rarely make the final cut.
Here is the list my friends and I are playing right now.
1 for 3:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Rift Bolt
4 Shard Volley
4 Sonic Seizure
Others:
4 Fireblast
4 Needle Drop
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Price of Progress
4 Street Wraith
Mana Base:
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Taiga
4 Mountain
SB
4 Flame Rift
4 Pyroblast
4 Hull Breach
3 Artifact Mutation
Cards explanation:
Let's forget about most of the burns.
Shard Volley: 1 for 3 damage. Spells with 1cc are the key if you want to win on turn 3 or 4. This one make the cut until there is a better 1 for 3 damage!
Sonic Seizure: Same thing as Shard Volley, some of my friends want to play 3 to reduce the chance of having 2 in hand. Personally, I like it. This is the kind of card you must test before complain.
Needle Drop: This card is funny. A 1cc burn that let you draw a card. For the moment, I like it. It took the place of Mogg Fanatic.
Keldon Marauders: As soon as there is a new 1cc burn for 3 damage, I remove this one from the deck. If you want to win on turn 3, you prefer not to see him, exept if you play against non-creature decks.
Price of Progress: The reason why there is 4 Pyroblast in the board! Seriously, this card is THE burn. The Flame Rifts in the board are there to replace the PoP in game 2 if you play against a deck with lots of basic lands.
Street Wraith: This card was totally printed for burn decks. It let you don't play Mogg Fanatic or another 2cc burn.
Taiga: The green is only for sb. I'm not sure if the green is the ideal color. For the moment, Hull Breach and Artifact Mutation are pretty good against CoP, Worship and Affinity decks.
Do not complaint about Chalice@1 please, we are talking about a burn deck here. Oh, my friends wins under it anyway.
My 2 cents,
Exact
@ Exact
... you haven't played in a while huh?
Team Fat Man & Little Boy
// Lands
2 [OD] Barbarian Ring
17 [CS] Snow-Covered Mountain
// Creatures
4 [10E] Mogg Fanatic
3 [SDM] Vexing Shusher
// Spells
4 [VI] Fireblast
3 [EX] Price of Progress
4 [4E] Lightning Bolt
4 [CHK] Lava Spike
4 [TSP] Rift Bolt
4 [LG] Chain Lightning
3 [FD] Magma Jet
3 [DS] Flamebreak
2 [TSB] Browbeat
3 [NE] Flame Rift
// Sideboard
SB: 3 [SC] Sulfuric Vortex
SB: 3 [SC] Pyrostatic Pillar
SB: 3 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
This is the revision I thought I would make for the Shadowmoore release. The modifications were:
-1 Price of Progress
-1 Flame Rift
-1 Magma Jet
+3 Vexing Shusher
I think that will allow my match ups against Threshold and Landstill to be much improved :D
Though I am not to sure about whether the Flamebreak and Vexing Shusher are really very compatible...?
Last edited by DalkonCledwin; 04-17-2008 at 01:07 AM.
"He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."
Why Char? It is horrible. If you haveand absolutely must deal 4 damage, then use Flame Javelin or Flames of the Blood Hand or even Pulse of the Forge. However I think that all of these "4-damage-for-3-mana" cards suck.
Bovinious, thinking in the mods best interest! I am shockedAlso yankeedave, try not to use red text, thats usually reserved for the admins/mods and I wouldnt want them to throw a fit at you
EDIT:
When it comes to Burn, Ankh of Mishra seems powerful and so do 16 deck thinners. This is my completely untested theoretical Burn decklist. This may likely be the jankiest decklist you've ever seen:
Code:4 Manamorphose 4 Street Wraith 4 Urza's Bauble 4 Mishra's Bauble 3 Ankh of Mishra 4 Shrapnel Blast 4 Flame Rift 4 Lightning Bolt 4 Chain Lightning 4 Rift Bolt 4 Lava Spike 2 Fireblast 9 Mountains 4 Great Furnace 2 Barbarian Ring Sideboard: 4 Vexing Shusher 4 Flamebreak 7 ?
Here is the most efficient burn list you have ever seen...
18 Moutain
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Flame Rift
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
2 Shard Volley
4 Spark Elemental/Price of Progress
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Manamorphose
4 Street Wraith
Sideboard Cards
Smash to Smithereens
Price of Progress
Flamebreak
Pyrostatic Pillar
Ankh of Mishra
Vexing Shusher
Card Explanation
Efficent burn spells make the difference between killing one turn earlier, and losing the game.
Thus, any card that deals less than 3 damage is absolutely unacceptable. Sorry Magma Jet. I know you occasionally filter out a land and blah blah blah, but I really want to dealing six points of damage turn two, not four. Besides, between the Fireblasts and Shard Volleys, this deck has a use for excess lands. Flame Rift and Keldon Maruaders barely squeak by at 4 damage and 5 damage respectively, but jsut 2 damage is two small.
Spark Elemental. Oh no, what if he gets blocked or removal thrown at him. Really, no one foregos an attacker to leave a blocker behind to defend against a burn deck. Removal is a more realistic concern. But guess what, you decide when you want to cast him. Just play him when they're tapped out, and you'll be fine. I've been running him for a while and I'm fairly convinced that his pros outweight his cons.
If you don't want to play Spark Elemental, play 4 Price of Progress in it's place.
Manamorphose/Street Wraith - 0cc instant speed cantrips are exactly what this deck needs. The baubles suck as you have to wait a turn for their effect and they thus make crappy top decks. But the same isn't true for these cards.
P.S. I'm VERY impressed with Smash to Smithereens.
After some quick testing I have found that crappy topdecks definately outway deck thinning. Hey, I was stubborn and just had to try 8 Baubles.
WTF? If this is a joke it isn't funny.
Had not seen the Javelin, that will be my choice if I have to run a 4 damage/ 3cc card!Why Char? It is horrible. If you have
And I dont like Sonic Seizure, as the deck is meant to use everything it draws, so discarding a card at random is not really helpful to the win, IMO.
How could you not be impressed with Smash to Smithereens. It's the perfect sideboard choice.
It lets you blow up Chalice set to 1, or Aether Vial, or Juggernaut while also doing three damage to your opponent, the same amount as incinerate.
Any thoughts on my list above?
Holy crap, I totally misread that card, I thought it did 3 damage to you instead of your opponent (and that you suggested it sarcastically). My bad for reading spoilers at 4 am.
On paper it looks quite solid. You only have the most efficient spells.
Do you ever run out of Mountains with 4 Fireblast and 2 Shard Volleys?
Yes, of course. It happens, but not that often. I think it's still worthwhile.
Actually, never mind. I think Price of Progress is more valuable than Shard Volley. It also works well as a 2 of as the later you play it, the more damage it does. So this will be my list post shadowmoor...
18 Mountain
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lava Spike
4 Flame Rift
4 Rift Bolt
4 Fireblast
2 Price of Progress
4 Spark Elemental
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Manamorphose
4 Street Wraith
Sideboard Cards
4 Flamebreak
4 Smash to Smithereens
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Price of Progress
2 Ankh of Mishra
Last edited by Clark Kant; 04-17-2008 at 08:38 PM.
If you take out the Shard Volleys, I would go:
-2 Mountains
+2 Barbarian Ring
Sideboard:
-2 Price of Progress
+1 Pyrostatic Pillar
+1 Ankh of Mishra
but that's just me nitpicking.
I don't like Barbarian Rings in a deck with 4 Fireblast. Dealing damage to yourself, till you get threshold, which isn't that easy to do without fetchlands, all to spend two mana to deal two damage is not worth it either imo.
I am currently running ole Sparky, but I find him a dead card if I dont hit him in the first two turns, as after that, most people can deal with it. I am thinking of going back to Mogg Fanatic, as he chumps and burns, as has already been well debated in this forum. Just a personal preference really.
And I am not really a fan of Ankh of Mishra in the SB, as I find it is a win more card, not a solution to a problem my opponent's deck may be presenting me with. It just does extra damage, that my deck already does well.
I am currently stuck on my 2 drop however. I see it as a choice between Magma Jet and Manamorphose (MM). The question for me is, Magma Jet does the damage and you fix your next draw, MM gives you the card now, but does no damage, but may well net you more damage. I am really struggling with this one. Any ideas?
And Smash is nice, does the damage you need, I am tempted the run them, but I still like the uncounterableness (is that a word?) of the replicate on Shattering Spree. So I am a bit torn, any comments/suggestion?
Yankee
They do different things. Manamorph is a turn 2 cantrip/bauble. Compared to Street Wraith, it can be countered more easily but saves you 2 health (which for me has proven to be significant). Magma Jet is an inefficient burn spell that happens to sculpt your topdeck. It's been said that Magma Jet and Baubles are incompatible, but I'm thinking of running 4 Jets and 4 morphs in my next iteration of burn. I do not anticipate that they will conflict too much, but I'll likely drop morphs before Jets if I Bauble into Jet and Scry into Bauble too often. I've always been pro-Jet though, so take it with a grain of salt.
Regarding the sideboard artifact destruction, I think the counterspell-dodging effect and casting/targeting flexibility of Shattering Spree is more important than the 3 damage. When I side in artifact destruction, it's to save my ass against a must-kill artifact, and the extra security that it will resolve plus the multi-shattering of Stax gear is more important to me than the 3 damage.
Most people blindly suggest new cards for decks. True contributors also suggest what to remove. It's not about what's good, but rather what's better than the current selections.
What decks play must-kill artifacts (Chalice, equipment... anything else?) and countermagic? I can only think of Faerie Stompy, which doesn't see much play.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
AfFOWnity? There are always things to look out for. And I would rather play more burn on t3 than 3 if I can help it.
Hmm, I wonder about running MM and Magma Jet, seems like a nice plan and I dont like the Street Wraiths either, this is a fragile enough deck as it is, without doing your opponents job for them.
Yankee
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