Nah, it still triggers the ability. You're still doing damage to Stuffy Doll, you're simply doing it in the form of -1/-1 counters. It does make it a much worse idea for Stuffy Doll to ping himself.Originally Posted by mujadaddy
There are very few applications with Memory Plunder. Almost every instance that you want to play your opponent's spell (i.e. in response to Storm or Orim's Chant back), Twincast does it better because you need an immediate response as opposed to post-resolution. You use Twincast to relay Tendrils back... or bounce back their Orim's Chant. Plunder can't do that... I don't see it as being that useful.
Maybe as some kind of sideboard card in Solidarity? It does have some funny potential -- can you keep copying the same Memory Plunder in your opponents GY?
This card makes no mention of allowing you to play the spell at instant speed if it's not an instant. Although we don't have the actual wording on the card, as it is now, I believe you can still only play the damnation at sorcery speed.
Vintage prefers spells to be of thecasting cost for 4 mana spells (so your Mana Crypt/Sol Ring/Mana Vault can go to work). It won't see any play there (you'll never have quad blue/black and if you do from Rit or Academy there's much better spell to play, like your own restricted cards which you wouldn't cut to make room for this).
Lists are fun. These lists are in very roughly descending order of likelihood to see play. (Note that this is quite distinct from and orthogonal to how good or powerful a card is. Ostensibly bad cards with niche uses see more play than cards which are decent, but just barely less powerful than ten other very similar cards).
Some of the names might have changed since when I compiled the lists: eh.
Alright, so, good cards from the set so far:
- Manamorphose
- Fracturing Gust (great Cunning Wish target)
- Vexing Shusher
- Runed Halo
- Graven Cairns cycle
Cards with solid potential:
- Faerie Macabre
- Kitchen Finks
- Stupid Wheel
- Fulminator Mage
- Ashenmoor Gouger
- Beseech the Queen
- Toil to Renown (could be a decent target for Burning Wish in control decks)
- Sygg, River Cutthroat
Cards which could see play if various celestial bodies align themselves in exactly the right way:
- Firespout
- Swans of Bryn Argoll
- Tattermunge Liege
- Demigod of Revenge
- Tattermunge Maniac
- Cursecatcher
- Cragganwick Cremator
- Smash to Smithereens
- Prismatic Omen
- Oona, Queen of the Fae (note: they've actually been called that since Lorwyn)
- Puresight Merrow
- Augury Adept
- Elsewhere Flask
- Wilt-Leaf Liege
- Dusk Urchins
- Boggart Ram-Gang
- Spirit Procession
- Rite of Consumption
- Everlasting Torment
- Flame Javelin
- Gleeful Sabotage
- Rhys the Redeemed
- Wilt-Leaf Cavaliers
- Elvish Hexhunter
- Cerebral Bore
- Mercy Killing
- Umbral Mantle
- Painter's Servant
- Wasp Lancer
- Heap Doll
Cards which pretty much suck, but can't be ruled out entirely (and that's using an extremely permissive interpretation of "entirely", especially towards the end):
- Cemetery Puca
- Curse of Chains
- Lurebound Scarecrow
- Guttural Response
- Inkfathom Infiltrator
- Godhead of Awe
- Order of Whiteclay
- Counsel of the Fae
- Oversoul of Dusk
- Giantbaiting
- Pyre Charger
- Dew Infusion
- Dream Salvage
- Cauldron of Souls
- Savor the Moment
- Knacksaw Clique
- Mana Reflection
- Enchanted Evening
- Mirrorweave
- Howl of the Night Pack
- Seedcradle Witch
- Devoted Druid
- Puppeteer Clique
- Rosheen Meanderer
- Wort, the Raidmother
- Thought Reflection
- Ragefanner Giant
- Manaforge Cinder
- Consign to Dream
- Memory Plunder
And lastly, potential reanimation (or cheat-into-play-via-other-means) targets, separate only because I was finding it a pain in the ass to rank them together with the rest:
(no order)
- Twilight Shepherd
- River Kelpie
- Midnight Banshee
- Windbrisk Raptor
- Mossbridge Troll
- Woodfall Primus
- Grim Poppet
- Knollspine Dragon
Go forth and bicker and debate amongst yourselves.
Last edited by Illissius; 04-20-2008 at 06:08 AM.
SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
SummenSaugen: then I flip it over and crush my opponent
You can play it at instant speed. It works the same way as Guile or Mosswort Bridge, which allow you to play things at instant speed despite not explicitly saying so.
No you can't. That makes the card even worse.
"You're English is terrible and inconsistent."
-DownSyndromeKarl
No I think I'm wrong, I guess you can play it immediatly and only immediatly.
Illisius: you really think Tattermunge Maniac is that farfetched?
Not even Goyf Sligh plays Jackal Pup, traditional Sligh doesn't see play (nor does N-land Stompy), and I doubt it'll be good enough for Goblins. That said, it's still solidly in "could find a niche" territory in my list. (I could also turn out to simply be wrong.)
SummenSaugen: well, I use Chaos Orb, Animate Artifact, and Dance of Many to make the table we're playing on my chaos orb token
SummenSaugen: then I flip it over and crush my opponent
When was the last time you got run down by Jungle Lions? It's not a bad card, and you'll certainly play against it on occasion and lose to it on occassion, it's just not Tier 1 by any stretch of the imagination. I fail to see how Tattermunge Maniac is that different from Jungle Lion (sure it's a Goblin).
Is it just me or is anyone really dissappointed with this set? I mean I know MaRo has a hard on for hybrid, but come on, they printed a 300 card set that looks to have zero (0) chase rares, except maybe Oona...but really nothing is even on the level of Thoughtseize, Garruk, Cryptic Command, Mutavault, Crusher, Chameleon Colossus, etc. I mean the set looks like itll be fun and good in Limited, but I dont want to play Limited if the packs I win have a max value of 6-8$. Anyone else concerned here?
What? Vexing Shusher for one will be an amazing $$ Rare and Fulminater Mage won't be a $20 bill, but will be a chase rare. Swans will be money, so will the Hybrid Land cycle and Sygg, River Cut Cutthroat . This will be the first set in a while where buying a box will be worth it...
Team Fat Man & Little Boy
no I think this set is bringing us some great creatures.
Garruk? Thoughtseize? Manavault? The Commands?
Lorwyn has plently of money.
I dont think Shusher is all that, it will maybe be played in goblins decks, and maybe in the SB of Combo decks. I dont see how combo can afford to keep an extra R open for every spell in plays tho...Xantid Swarm just seems better to me. I think they printed the card as an answer to Counterbalance in Extended, so Goblins/Domain Zoo can get around, which it will accomplish, but at a 6-8$ price tag I think.
Fulminator Mage wont be worth much, in Type 2 and Block it fits in no decks, and I dont see a place for it in Extended either. Even if it does see play in some Legacy Sui decks or whatever, that alone wont push its price tag above 5$. Same thing with Swans, the only time that card isnt awful is with Chain of Plasma, which again is a Legacy only combo that wont even be better than current combo. It may hit 8-10 initially and then will probably fall.
I forgot about the lands, the blue ones of those may be worth a pretty penny, and Reflecting Pool may drastically rise, but none of these will be 15-20$ chase rares like the past 3 sets had.
IDK, maybe Im just a cynic but this set looks like it just sucks sucks sucks to me.
Also, you could pretty much break even and sometimes even profit from opening Future Sight boxes when they were still in print, Hell 1 Goyf is more than half the box
Mutavault was in Morningtide and yes Garruk, Thoughtseize and the command were $$, I forgot, sorry...
Think back to this post when Shusher is a $12-$18 rare. He single handily shuts down Counterbalance and is a house against almost any control deck. In extended he will be an auto 4 of in RDW and Burn. Look my blistering Firecat hits the board and swings for 7, look my Shrapnel Blast resolves...This card will be played in every Red based aggro deck in every format, he is going to be good!
Have you seen the top decks in Standard and Extended lately? They all play non-basics, this guy will be played heavily in extended and Standard. He may find room in a Legacy deck but I doubt it. Mutavault is played in almost every standard deck now days and will make a splash in the next extended season.
Tell ya what, just trade or sell me all of your Ful. Mages and Shushers and I will agree with you...
Team Fat Man & Little Boy
I think Future Sight may still be the best set to buy packs/boxes/cases of, from a money perspective.
Of course, from a money perspective the best path is just to buy singles.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
Im not saying these cards wont be good and played, I just dont think theyll acheive chase-rare status of 12$+ price tags. Shusher is really a thwart to just Counterbalance, and Mage is an answer to Mutavault/colr fixers in type 2/Block, but he just doesnt really fit anywhere, no one plays elementals, he wont be played in Faeries, Elves, Reveillark, Big Mana...I just dont see his place. I think these will both be 6-8$ rares, playable, but not across a wide variety of decks and formats. I could be wrong, but Im just not seeing it. Well wait and see I guess, and yes by all means quote me on this Id love to be proven wrong so we dont have another Prophecy/Champions on our hands
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