[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

[dlevsApiJ]

I really like the 2nd Island, and also like the 15 lands. I cutted the MD wish, because when you see Pate, its probably not Game 1.. And using it to have a toolbox (I was thinking about that) is to mana and Life intensive.. Thanks for the tips :)

I edited the list.. The Sb is 16 cards now, I cut 2 cards each tournament, dependant on the meta..

EDIT: Isnt it an idea to cut the 4th SW in my list for the 4th Ponder? I think Ponder would do much more.. Since I don't use the M Tutor + SW "trick" that much..

[Mental]

So here are my thoughts referring to Emidlin's "possible choices" list a page back.

3 Chant, 1 Wipe Away, and 1 Pate seems optimal. You really do need a stable mana base to go off and Wasteland can really disrupt that. Also, baiting FoW and then Pateing it is a very strong play. I don't see the need for 3 Chant if you're going to run an optimal amount of Mystical Tutors.

15 Lands seems fine, but I'm sticking with 14 for now. I'm running a Trop in the SB and a Volc MB, because in my meta I need access to EtW. However, if I didn't, I wouldn't argue against the Trop MB and no red at all.

Street Wraith is really good usually. He helps you win quickly when that needs to happen, providing Threshold quickly. But I tend to side him out fairly often - It still seems he's more effective than Portent, because Portent doesn't help you at all when comboing out, so you can't chain with it, and costs mana.

On the business section of the deck. I run 2 Tendrils, 1 EtW, and 2 IGG. Double Tendrils is my main wincon Vs. Aggro or Control, while EtW or IGG is my main plan against Aggro.

I don't feel that I'm experianced enough with this deck to provide thoughts on the sidebored. But Confidant is very, very, strong, even not against discard.

For referance, here's my list:

4 Strand
3 Delta
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Sea
1 Volc
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra

4 Street Wraith
4 Ponder
4 BStorm

4 Infernal Tutor
3 Mystical Tutor
1 Contract

4 Petal
4 LED
4 Cabal Rit
4 Dark Rit

2 IGG
2 Tendrils
1 EtW

3 Orim's Chant
1 Extirpate
1 Wipe Away

I think that's 60.

[WiLdFiRe]

4 Strand
3 Delta
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Sea
1 Volc
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra

4 Street Wraith
4 Ponder
4 BStorm

4 Infernal Tutor
3 Mystical Tutor
1 Contract

4 Petal
4 LED
4 Cabal Rit
4 Dark Rit

3 Orim's Chant
1 Extirpate
1 Wipe Away

I think that's 60.

Actually, it's 55?!
You're missing 2 IGG, 2 Tendrils and a Mystical Tutor.

[emidln]

kcapp001 and I were thinking about (and testing) 2-3 Sensei's Divining Top in place of 4 Street Wraith and potentially the 4th Ponder so the config would go to something like this:

3-4 Chant
0-1 Extirpate
1 Death Wish
1 Cruel Bargain
2 Ill-Gotten Gains
2 Tendrils of Agony
3-4 Ponder
2-3 Sensei's Divining Top

The biggest loss is in the mirror where Street Wraith is a great threat. It's theorized that maindeck Extirpate and sideboard Extirpate should be able to let you gain Chant superiority fast enough to actually combo out, although we haven't tested this yet.

SDT opens up a number of interesting plays, functioning somewhat like a Street Wrath for 1 colorless in some circumstances (turning the blue demonic tutor for U into blue demonic tutor for 1U) as well as providing outs to discard, control. The synergy with LED is also really exciting. It's still undetermined if Top is good enough to replace Street Wraith, but the initial testing is promising.

[rsaunder]

Seems too slow. I know that's sort of a bad reason to dismiss something in magic, especially if that something is 1cc, but I think it may be plausable here. I've never been huge into street wraith, the life loss builds up a lot, he makes mulling REALLY challenging sometimes, and sometimes he just looks at me funny. He does, though, get threshold quickly. SDT sounds like it would be a meta choice. In a meta with a ton of control where the extra deck manipulation would be helpful, i can see it being amazing (perhaps not as good as another extirpate). It would make a nice bluff (tundra=>top, go. I'm playing thresh, right?), but in any other sort of meta (heavy combo, agro) I want immediate benefit out of my mana expenditure. Ponder and brainstorm do that, top needs two mana and a turn. Not godawful but not amazing.

Other SDT tricks would be fun, with LED like emidln mentioned. I don't know, I want to see more before I judge completely but it just sounds impractical in an open meta.

[dlevsApiJ]

Hmm, I really like the idea.. I never liked SW that much.. And top is just insane with your Fetchlands.. Sometimes I really wish I could use my Ponder/Brainstorm a second time, cause I'm very topdeck dependent.. Top is a good card for that kind of situations.

I really gonna test the card :) (-4 SW, +3 Top +1 Ponder)

Replacing the 4th Chant with 1 Pate MD sounds nice, has someone tested this yet? Cause I'm not very sure about it.. I think most of the time (especially pre-board, when they dont know youre playing combo most of the time) 1 Chant > 1 Pate, because Pate is only usefull when they already have countered something.. When you have 1 Chant and 1 Pate, 2 Chants are usually also enough (and when you have 1 in hand, the 2nd can be found with an Infernal Tutor.. When you have 1 Pate in hand, you cant find Chants with your In. Tutor..)

Jip

[jjjoness']

Isn't top a problem when it keeps you from getting hellbent when you have no LED?

[emidln]

Isn't top a problem when it keep you from getting hellbent when you have no LED?

Wtf? Why would it be a problem? It costs one colorless. You can play it pretty much any time. It even works with Infernal by keeping stuff you can't cast from getting to your hand.

[dlevsApiJ]

I saw someone at the Storm Boards playing B wish over D Wish in the SB. This seems much better (when you play red in your list), why is this the first time I saw this? Did I forgot something what will be a problem when you have the B Wish? Or am I not the only one that forgot B Wish should be better then D Wish?

I think of playing +2 Top, +1 ETW, +1 Volc. Island,+ 1 Ponder. And -4 SW, -1 Island (from my last posted list)
And SB: -1 D Wish, +1 B Wish

~Jip

[Mental]

Actually, it's 55?!
You're missing 2 IGG, 2 Tendrils and a Mystical Tutor.

Actually, I'm missing 2 IGG, 2 Tendrils, and 1 EtW. That card's a necessity in my Meta.

@Top. I really like the idea too. Cutting SW will give me room to go +3 Top, +1 Contract. Contract, IMO, is one of the most broken cards in this deck in a control heavy meta, because it lets you bait until you can go Chant --> Contract, recover. It's also very useful in conjunction with IGG because you can go Turn 2 Chant, IGG against thresh/landstill, get back Contract, Chant, Land or something like that, and next turn Contract back up to seven while they're stuck with three. IGG is a really underestimated early game card against control. It might not take out their control, but it will take out their clock/manabase.

Now that we're running Top, what about something really crazy. Counterbalance in the bored? I'd have to do a CC count, but it doesn't seem THAT out of place.

[dlevsApiJ]

Cool, I like the idea, CounterTop in a Combo deck, Lool .
But I think its to mana/slots intensive.. What do you wanna cut for it?

[Mental]

Cool, I like the idea, CounterTop in a Combo deck, Lool .
But I think its to mana/slots intensive.. What do you wanna cut for it?

Well I'm just referring to a sidebored. I'm still fleshing mine out, but as of now, it looks like:

4 Confidant
1 Chant
1 Tranquility
1 EtW
1 Trop
2 KGrip
3 Extirpate
2 Abeyance
EDIT: 1 Pyroclasm would be nice in there somewhere.

So counterbalance would probably go in as a 2 or 3 of. Since it serves the role of protecting the Combo, it could probably replace 2 Abeyance and 1 Extirpate. However, it's completely untested.

CB seems like it would shine against Threshold and in the Mirror. It seems weak against Goblins, Landstill, and other deck that you crush. So it may not be all that bad.

Thoughts?

EDIT:

About the Manabase. Mine is:

4 Delta
3 Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
1 Volc

I need to fit one plains in there - Wasteland is too big in my meta. I'm thinking of cutting 1 Delta and adding a single plains. Otherwise I'll cut the Scrubland.

[Dark_Cynic87]

It (read: SDTop) seems to take away from the M. Tutor-->Wipe Away I seem to need against CounterTop, MM, Gaddock Teeg, etc., not to mention like you said, Wraith against mirror and etc. has always been a great back-up plan...I do like the blue quasi-Demonic thing w/out the life-loss, I'll test also.

Also, double-top can be a storm-builder, paying 1 per storm...

It's easier for counters/Needles to shut you down without cycling.

Note: Went to the prerelease in Denver, and tore up the only 2 other legacy players there that I saw...Played against Fish and MBA, Went off turn 2 all 3 games (had to leave after game 1 against fish). The MBA player said it's not fun to not get to play anything (I played through a Hymn, though. Luck-ish, as he missed my Tutor), the fish player kept a hand without disruption. I got lucky against Fish as I Abeyanced turn 2 (baiting), and topdecked an Infernal off the cantrip effect ftw. Otherwise I would have had quite a hard time winning, as his hand was double-Meddling Mage. Yikes.

Got a Russian Wipe Away...eh.

Pce,

--DC

[jjjoness']

I did a few test games with Top maindeck (-4 Wraith + 3 Top + 1 Ponder) and actually you're right emidln:top does not keep you from comboing off.
But I feel it makes the deck a bit slower, for it costs a lot of Mana. But it's pretty useful against controlish decks, baiting counters and helping to get multiple Chants/acceleration. But against aggro I think they slow you down a lot , I lost a some games to MonoG stompy, just because I wasn't able to combo off on turn 3 (actually I had no chants to timewalk him). Against Fastcombo fee l like it doesn't matter, you really want to keep your mana for Chant in the early game, and later you have to the mana and time to use Top.
So said, I only did few games, but I'm gonna test it again and again, but now I think in a more controlish meta SDT instead of Wraith could be a really good option.
Let's see if later testgames will tell the same.

[emidln]

It (read: SDTop) seems to take away from the M. Tutor-->Wipe Away I seem to need against CounterTop, MM, Gaddock Teeg

How? SDT is a 1cc artifact that lets you manipulate the top of your library. Mystical tutor is a 1cc instant that puts stuff on top of your library. Wipe Away is a 3cc solution to hate. The only way these interact that doesn't result from the pilot being completely deficient is when you use SDT to draw Wipe Away after Mystical Tutor, when you use SDT to hide Wipe Away from discard until you're ready to go off, and when you Wipe Away SDT to build storm. The only way that it can harm you is when you make a mistake of activating top and hide Wipe Away out of your reach. That isn't a flaw in the design of the deck, just the skill of the player.

It's easier for counters/Needles to shut you down without cycling.

Seriously? Street Wraith's cycling ability (like all cycling abilities) is an activated ability and very Pithing Needle-able if your opponent is that inclined. I've had it happen to me in testing vs competent opponents.

[Mental]

So I did a quick CC count for Counterbalance. We've got plenty of 1 drops, but only 11 3 Drops post board, assuming the only thing brought in was 3 Balances. So meh. It could be decent, but I don't love it.

[emidln]

The goal of a sb CB would be to give you infinite time to setup vs Thresh. This means you need more 1 drops than two drops. (Goose is the only creature they play that you can't Wipe Away, which should also be coming in.) The major issue is that the current Thresh lists don't provide a good reason for sacrificing the sideboard space. (Thresh is already a good matchup.)

[GreenOne]

So I did a quick CC count for Counterbalance. We've got plenty of 1 drops, but only 11 3 Drops post board, assuming the only thing brought in was 3 Balances. So meh. It could be decent, but I don't love it.

Well, I'd love CB in a storm combo deck, but I doubt this thing will be possible.

However, unlike thresh we can Mystical Tutor for 2 (IT) and 3 CC (Wipe Away)

[Mental]

Well, I'd love CB in a storm combo deck, but I doubt this thing will be possible.

However, unlike thresh we can Mystical Tutor for 2 (IT) and 3 CC (Wipe Away)

Yeah, it doesn't seem bad on principle, but like EmidIn said, it's probably overkill. Still, running it could allow us to take out a few other anti-thresh cards and focus on other matches. Also, the bluff would be EPIC.

[WiLdFiRe]

Yeah, it doesn't seem bad on principle, but like EmidIn said, it's probably overkill. Still, running it could allow us to take out a few other anti-thresh cards and focus on other matches. Also, the bluff would be EPIC.

You do realise that this deck is basically Threshold with a combo finish anyway?