[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[FredMaster]

Random thoughts:
1. Wtf? 3 Dreadnoughts?
2. Crucible - are we really so much Landstill? (I don't think so)
3. 3 Dazes - bad as always
4. 3 Trinket Mage - since we have a pretty big Toolbox and Academ Ruins it is the incorrect number imo
5. Maindeck Tarmogoyf - I personally don't like that card in the maindeck, it just doesn't fit into the game plan. Coming suprisingly out of the sideboard it is an option tho. But not Mainboard - and not two!!

Well congrats to the finish tho, I like Dreadstill after all

[Bane of the Living]

It's an interesting list to say the least. I'm not sure how I feel on Crucible in the main but I definetally do like the Goyfs.

I added goyf a while ago. I can't see a good arguement against him really. He's a much better alternate win condition than Trinket Mage beats. He eat's up removal spells for Dreadnought. You can also play your own goyf before a Standstill if your opponent already has one out. This deck has little to no removal so matching goyfs is great.

[Rood]

Can't say as I like Goyf in the main, G1 the oponent lacks the spells that hurt us the most anyways like Krosan Grip. Coming from the board would be alot more powerful seeing as the oponent wouldn't be seeing it coming and Goyf would laugh at Krosan's face all day ;).

[thefreakaccident]

Sorry, but I had a great build for a dreadnought deck that I have been testing, and I wanted input... all the other threads have died, so I will post the list here... plz tell me what you guys think:

lands//20
1 academy ruins
8 island
2 flooded strand
4 wooded foothills
1 forest
4 tropical island


creatures//10
3 trinket mage
3 phyrexian dreadnought
4 tarmogoyf

spells//30
4 force of will
4 counterbalance
4 daze

4 brainstorm
3 sensei's divining top
2 thirst for knowledge

3 vedalken shackles
1 engineered explosives
4 stifle
1 trickbind


sideboard//
3 tormod's crypt
4 propaganda
4 back to basics
4 krosan grip



The deck has been doing quite well for me, having a very good cc range:

5cc - 4 cards
3cc - 8 cards
2cc - 13 cards
1cc - 14 cards


This makes the CB engine quite strong... I also have plenty of islands so I can also support the shackles quite effectively, and with the beaters this deck has at its' disposal already it is pretty solid at just stealing possible blockers.

Thirst is more like a filterer/cantrip in the deck, and occasionally throws away an extra top or shackles... the ability to bring back those cards as well is also huge (making grip less devastating in the late game).


What do you guys think of the deck?

Truthfully...

[NQN]

Doesn´t looks good to me. Shackles seems way to clunky since you often have only 3-4 lands. Also the disruption plan goes down if you cut wasteland and as a result you loose a lot of flexibility.

[Bane of the Living]

Can't say as I like Goyf in the main, G1 the oponent lacks the spells that hurt us the most anyways like Krosan Grip. Coming from the board would be alot more powerful seeing as the oponent wouldn't be seeing it coming and Goyf would laugh at Krosan's face all day ;).

I don't understand your logic here.

Your saying the lack of Krosan Grip is why Nought is so good in game one, I understand that. Yet sideboarding Goyf's against Grip seems like the wrong way to go. If any card should come in against Grip it's Meddling Mage.

If your playing Goyf in the maindeck he'll be there as a back up plan game one and game two. You'll save yourself precious sideboard space that can be used against bad matchups. It's not like your opponent is sideboarding out their Swords to Plowshare's for Krip so you'll probably want a good amount of threats to match their removal.


I've been testing Declaration of Naught against Krosan Grip. It's great if your not playing Meddling Mage. It gets around Orims Chant against combo, kinda neat.

[Rood]

I don't understand your logic here.

Your saying the lack of Krosan Grip is why Nought is so good in game one, I understand that. Yet sideboarding Goyf's against Grip seems like the wrong way to go. If any card should come in against Grip it's Meddling Mage.

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying, the removal the oponent does have G1 is all things that are easy to deal with (Counterbalance, Force.) Why maindeck Goyfs over Trinket Mage g1 when Trinket Mage has so many answers to alot of decks we do not like to see G1 such as Dragonstompy and Stax or Ichorid (for Crypt builds). Mage coming from the board isn't exactly ideal because you have to cut Wastes in order to reliable get him out since we run 7 Colorless sources. Having Goyf come from the board is basically the same logic you're using~he's another threat but G1 when they don't have their hate in I'd still have to say Trinket Mage is a much more viable slot to have.

If your playing Goyf in the maindeck he'll be there as a back up plan game one and game two. You'll save yourself precious sideboard space that can be used against bad matchups. It's not like your opponent is sideboarding out their Swords to Plowshare's for Krip so you'll probably want a good amount of threats to match their removal.

Agreed Goyf does make a wonderful back up plan but game one is he really a necessary backup plan then what we already run? Most people don't maindeck too much removal and what removal they have I'd say is fairly easy enough to deal with. G2 and G3 he becomes alot more deadly for one, your oponent won't be expecting him and two he makes alot of your oponents cards pretty dead. A good sideboard plan would probally be

-1 Trinket Mage
-2 Dreadnought
-1 Trickbind
+4 Goyf

I've been testing Declaration of Naught against Krosan Grip. It's great if your not playing Meddling Mage. It gets around Orims Chant against combo, kinda neat.

I haven't actually tested this but It could certainly be good in the right meta.

[Nihil Credo]

I've been testing Declaration of Naught against Krosan Grip. It's great

Change your member description to "I don't even read the cards I test".

[TrialByFire]

Change your member description to "I don't even read the cards I test".

Beat me to it.

Welcome to Split Second.

[Clark Kant]

Lol @ Naught.

Goyf is good here for the same reason he is good in every single deck. Because he's a freaking vanilla 4/5 for 2 mana. OMG! That's so broken. He's a four turn clock for just two mana! That's freaking fantastic.

I think Goyf should be an automatic 4 of in every single deck there is in every single format there is. I am not even joking.

I can't think of a single deck that wouldn't instantly jump up a tier by splashing green to play Goyf.

Atleast in a deck with a creature based win condition that plays Standstill and splashes green already anyways.

[Michael Keller]

Lol @ Naught.

Goyf is good here for the same reason he is good in every single deck. Because he's a freaking vanilla 4/5 for 2 mana. OMG! That's so broken. He's a four turn clock for just two mana! That's freaking fantastic.

I think Goyf should be an automatic 4 of in every single deck there is in every single format there is. I am not even joking.

I can't think of a single deck that wouldn't instantly jump up a tier by splashing green to play Goyf.

Atleast in a deck with a creature based win condition that plays Standstill and splashes green already anyways.

That's garbage.

[Clark Kant]

I think your sarcasm detector is broken.

[Bovinious]

I think your sarcasm detector is broken.

Oh thank God you were kidding, for a minute there I thought you were a complete moron

[Clark Kant]

Seriously though. I think Jotun Grunt would be fantastic in this deck as 2/3 of.

Not only does it hate on Ichorid, it's a fantastic tool against Threshold, Goyf, Tombstalker, Mongoose, Mystic Enforcer and pretty much most of the entire format. Not to mention that it's a great beatstick.

It's likely very maindeckable as a two of.

I highly recommend testing it. Hell, I bet threshold would run Jotun Grunt too if it didn't interfere with their entire gameplan.

Here is what I'm going to be running from now on...

My Recommended List:

//Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Plains
2 Tundra
2 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory

//Creatures
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Trinket Mage

//Card Advantage
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top

//Disruption
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Spell Snare
3 Daze
1 Trickbind
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

//Sideboard
4 Meddling Mage
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Back to Basics
1 Pithing Needle
1 Tormod's Crypt

Honestly, my only remaining concern with this deck is, what to sideboard out against what matchups. I find sideboarding out cards is very difficult, as the mainboard is extremely tight as is.

[Cait_Sith]

Ichorid's strategy is to dump their ENTIRE library into their graveyard by turn 3. Grunt hits two cards by turn 3.

It hates Ichorid with the same skill Extract hates TES.

It doesn't do much relevant at all in the maindeck. It can be excellent sideboard hate against Thresh, but I don't know if this deck even needs it.

The card is strong, this is something I have been saying in T2 for a long time (I ran 3 MD in Boros to tremendous effect). However, Grunt runs partially counter to the gameplan of Still, so I could not see t MD.

SB it would depend on the meta, but is possible.

[Clark Kant]

You can slow Ichorid a bit with FoW. It removes Bridge from Below if they play it too early etc.

How does it run counter to this deck's game plan?

Does this deck run Tombstalker?

Does this deck run Tarmogoyf?

Is it a pure combo deck that doesn't care about attacking?

Is it a pure control deck that doesn't care about attacking?

Those are the four things that kept Jotun Grunt from being played in other decks.

But none of that applies here.

It works great with Standstill. You can lay it and lay Standstill and beat for a few turns thus forcing them to want to break Standstill asap. Else, it attacks for a while under Standstill and then dies, but only after bringing them so that I attack from Dreadnought will finish them off, and gives you something to do till you draw into manlands.

[Jaiminho]

How about it doesn't deal enough damage to get even close to winning under a Standstill?

[J.V.]

You can slow Ichorid a bit with FoW. It removes Bridge from Below if they play it too early etc.

How does it run counter to this deck's game plan?

Does this deck run Tombstalker?

Does this deck run Tarmogoyf?

Is it a pure combo deck that doesn't care about attacking?

Is it a pure control deck that doesn't care about attacking?

Those are the four things that kept Jotun Grunt from being played in other decks.

But none of that applies here.

It works great with Standstill. You can lay it and lay Standstill and beat for a few turns thus forcing them to want to break Standstill asap. Else, it attacks for a while under Standstill and then dies, but only after bringing them so that I attack from Dreadnought will finish them off, and gives you something to do till you draw into manlands.

Grunt doesn't have a home in Dreadstill you already have good GY hate in the form of 3 tutorable Tormod's Crypts. As far as beats under SS Mishra's Factory works just fine. And in the addition beater department you'd be surprised how often 2 factories and a Trinket Mage get there, but if we really wanted another we would go back to Green Splash side another Tropical Island and throw Tarmogoyfs in the board in addition to the Krosan Grips. So please enoug of this, it's nauseating.

[Cait_Sith]

Deck's plan:

Control games viciously. Drop giant dude for the win.

It takes THREE successful attacks for Grunt to actually shave a turn off of Dreads attack. Even then, you only buy a turn. You could use those slots for either someone who is nice enough to stick around and keep bashing (Tarmogoyf) or for some answers to creatures (StP/Wrath).

You can slow Ichorid a bit

So they will kill us turn 4 instead of turn 3? Awesome! We still lose well under the time limit in that circumstance.

Does this deck run Tombstalker?

It is better than Grunt MD. Overall faster, more resilient, more evasive, and only takes two attacks (both more likely to connect too) to shave of a Dread turn. This card can even go lethal on its own reliably.

Does this deck run Tarmogoyf?

Do the lists that win run it? Yes, yes they do. Ergo, this deck does, doesn't it?

Is it a pure combo deck that doesn't care about attacking?

Since white based combo was popular anyway. Everyone knows FT and TES started white, but decided to branch out their options into black.

Is it a pure control deck that doesn't care about attacking?

No such thing at this point. However, this is a typical control deck where you want to show an attacker only when your opponent's defenses are managed. You then use a powerful/resilient creature to quickly take them down to 0.

In effect, the answer to that question is "Yes."

Those are the four things that kept Jotun Grunt from being played in other decks.

Other considerations include:

What slot would it take up? Is the fact that it doesn't last worth the fact that this card vanishes after a relatively short period?

How long can I sustain this card? Can I fill my graveyard enough to keep it around for 2-3 turns, or even beyond?

Is the fact of any evasive abilities detrimental due to its limited time of existence?

I am sure there are more if you look for them.

But none of that applies here.

I already have disproved one of your four original points and showed that there are more that you did not consider.

It works great with Standstill. You can lay it and lay Standstill and beat for a few turns thus forcing them to want to break Standstill asap.

For this to be true there need to be at least 2 cards in one graveyard and four in another. Given that this would be getting on later in the game, if you can Control the game to the point where you can safely drop the Grunt, wouldn't Dreadnought simply be the superior card at this point?

Else, it attacks for a while under Standstill and then dies, but only after bringing them so that I attack from Dreadnought will finish them off, and gives you something to do till you draw into manlands.

Okay, so it dies after 1-2 attacks, great. You know have a Standstill and, thanks to your astronomical manland count of 4, a very small chance of finding the lands you want until they break the Standstill on their terms. God help you if they have Wastelands, because that may be enough to prevent you from winning entirely.

The situation is just too contrived to be considered viable; this is particularly so because you are relying on Grunt to hit multiple times when, often, it will just not have the number of cards in graveyards to do so. In order for there to be the 8 in a single graveyard, you often have gotten the game to the point where Dreadnought will already be able to come down and, in that case, it will simply take THREE turns less than Grunt--->Dreadnought would (unless, of course, you foolishly played both near the same time. Even then, it would take longer and simply add pointless risk.).

[J.V.]

Do the lists that win run it? Yes, yes they do. Ergo, this deck does, doesn't it?

Nope it doesn't (like I said it would be in the side at best if we were too). But the rest of your points were pretty valid so it can slide.