What deck would you want Vexing Shusher against? Threshold? It's not a scary matchup by any means, it's almost always correct to play around Daze against them, and if they bring in extra counters it's BEBs which take out Shusher anyway.
UW Landstill? That deck runs eight counters, and they are not what you fear primarily - what you are scared of are the Humilities and Wrath, and possibly postboard CoP: Red (because you have to resolve a Needle and win before they find Explosives; either that, or win with morph). If I were to SB extra cards against Landstill, they would be Anarchy, Demonfire, and Akroma #2.
The other purpose could be to resolve Moon against 4C Landstill, but Trinisphere is almost as good at that job and arguably better (T1 Trini, T2 Moon doesn't lose to StP + FoW like T1 Shusher, T2 Moon, which is also harder to pull off), while also being awesome against combo, Ichorid, and Threshold.
Really, I can only see sideboarding Shusher if MUC is big in your area. Otherwise you're sacrificing the Pyrokinesis/Pyroclasm slots in your SB for very little gain.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
I could afford to tripple R as I am only a single color over many colors.
Arc-Slogger and Seething Song have been weak for me, I'm thinking of replacing Sloggers with Countryside Crusher. Same coloured cost with less overall investment and assurance of threats later in the game.
There have been not mono-Originally Posted by mercenarybdu
Dragon Stompy lists? Please elaborate.
The E.P.I.C. Syndicate: I mean, if they play a lullaby for babies they should at least play the Monster Mash when somebody dies.
Elaborating: He plays awful shit.
Also: see previous discussion -> Old man sucks ass.
And as a side note: Jitte is the only enchantment that does not suck balls. Please don't play anything else.
And fuck all the other god-awful suggestions that keep constantly coming up in this thread - These days I'm sad when I see that someone posted in this thread again.
Seriously; read through the thread.
Deviant: I think Sanguine Voyeur has been in this thread since the beginning :)
Sanguine Voyageur: I don't understand this though, out of 9 games I played yesterday with this deck, Slogger was in my opening hand twice, and I topdecked it three times. Out of my opening hand, one pitched to a Chrome Mox, the other one won me the game of of a Seething Song. The Topdecks actually won me the game every time they hit the table, and that was 2 times, as the third time I didn't need it anymore. Why do you not like Slogger anymore? Could you elaborate?
About Song: I can completely get into that though, my main reason for disliking Seething is that it makes 5 mana, meaning you can either:
1) make a five-drop,
2) a three and a two drop, or
3) tap an additional land/use an SSG to make two 3-drops, and
4) in a rare case tap two lands/Combination of land and SSG, or double seething song to make 7 mana and make a three and four drop.
I rarely see myself Songing into a RPD to play around Daze.
What I am trying to say is that since I play only CotV and Jitte as two drops, situation 2 rarely comes up, situation 3 is possible but situational and situation 4 comes up even less, meaning that the 5 mana you get with Seething Song is just an inconvenient number as most cards combine into 6 or 7, making Seething Song strictly good at powering out a Slogger. And flip the occasional R'Akroma if you play her.
But I have to admit, this has been enough for me to maindeck all four of them, as it is such an amazing and powerful play. Seething Song allows this deck to go insane in the beginning.
Maybe though, the worst part of Seething Song is topdecking it when you have one or two Gathan Raiders unflipped and winning you the game, sometimes I just take 5 to keep winning, but it feels like such a stupid play.
In the past fourteen or so games I've played, Arc-Slogger hasn't come down, and it wouldn't have been worth it. Early Sloggers require additional the Seething Song to be played. A counter or any removal would set me back a turn tempo wise and provide card disadvantage. Later Sloggers may not require the Song, but they just haven't been that game altering.
This is a stompy deck so you really need to go balls out to win. You can't rely on small creatures to steadily beat down. Slogger is rediculous. Being able to get the opponent down to low life, have him or her stabalize with a wrath or something, and then topdeck Slogger for the win is awesome.
You need that first turn huge threat or lock piece or the deck won't function right.
Sloggers and Songs make this deck seem like a 1st turn kill combo deck.
Along with Chalices and Moons of course, which can be brutal.
If Arc-Slogger ever picks up a Jitte the universe collapses.
Seriously: (even) late sloggers tend to win the game.
And card-advantage goes right out of the window when you pick up this deck. Mulliganing might make the deck do better! (easier to get hellbent, this has been relevant sometimes in a mull to six where an additional card would have meant lost dmg.) We play Chrome Moxes, We flip Raiders, We thrive on hellbent, we play Songs. We want to buke our hand on the table asap and hope it goes the distance. Card advantage means nothing for this deck.
If card advantage doesn't matter, then why don't you run auras? Or Grafted Wargear? Or Avatar of Discord, Balduvian Horde, or Cragganwick Creamator?
They all open you up to two for ones in the same way Arc-Slogger does in the early game.
Because avatar of discord costs RRR.
Cremator and Horde cost 2RR, and suck. We have Pit-Dragon, which easily ends the game in two turns and tend to do it even faster (with evasion) and can actually take down exalted angel, which has been relevant in a few games.
And I only run 2 Jittes, no other enchantments. I should run three of them, but I don't because of personal preference. Wargear on the other hand, just makes the guy big, when Jitte is removal, life gain and it dominates the combat phase.
Playing Wargears is stupid because we run artifacts (and enchantments) that warrant sb'ing in artifact removal (which sometimes is just a nice side-effect of disenchants and such) making their disenchants effectively terrors. That simple.
EDIT: and none of your examples has even remotely the same effect on board position that Slogger has. They are just 5/5 & 5/3 beatsticks. Slogger is ~same size and direct damage.
Those weren't serious suggestions, only examples used to showcase that card disadvantage does matter, even in this deck.
I wouldn't say I agree.
It's the power-level of cards like Arc-Slogger that make the card-disadvantage associated with them negligible.
What do you think of Lotus Petal + Tarmogoyf ?
These are indeed the reasons the deck wins but there is no particular synergy with Slogger, is there ?Along with Chalices and Moons of course, which can be brutal.
A Jitte is certainly better on a Rakdos Pit-Dragon and is easier to stick on cheaper creatures. I hope I don't see your point.If Arc-Slogger ever picks up a Jitte the universe collapses.
Doesn't 2. contradicts 1., i.e. you don't want to reach a late game position because without card advantage you're likely stuffed ?1. Seriously: (even) late sloggers tend to win the game.
2. And card-advantage goes right out of the window when you pick up this deck. Mulliganing might make the deck do better! (easier to get hellbent, this has been relevant sometimes in a mull to six where an additional card would have meant lost dmg.) We play Chrome Moxes, We flip Raiders, We thrive on hellbent, we play Songs. We want to buke our hand on the table asap and hope it goes the distance. Card advantage means nothing for this deck.
This deck indeed has less late game than suicide black. However, we do not win every game before turn seven. Top decked Sloggers tend to do so even when the opponent has otherwise gained total control of the game.
No other creature in this deck is capable of ending the game on the spot. (Yes yes, MotM often does that 1st turn..)
I've also felt like Jitte under-performs in this deck many times.Awful in the "oh great, I've spent four mana and my two-turn clock is still a two-turn clock, and just as vulnerable" way. Killing creatures off with Jitte counters was a fairly uncommon occurrence in both testing and tournament; it tends to only happen when I find myself without any of the 13 fatties, which rule the combat phase without need for equipment.
Question: Despite the fact that equipment will turn SSG and Magus into real threats, would it not be better to play 4 Maulers + 2 R'Akromas with no MD equipment?
Standard Land
4 Mox
4 SSG
4 Song
4 Chalice
4 Moon
4 Magus
4 Raiders
4 Dragon
4 Slogger
4 Mauler
2 Akroma
Jitte is good against the random crap that you may run in to. Decks that aren't devestated by Moons, Chalices, or Tinispheres.
Equipmentless DS is something that I've played around with a bunch. It really is much better against a meta of Thresh, Landstill, and combo (mostly). However you do suffer serious losses to aggro and burn. I might be able to live with it if I could find room in the board for Jitte, but that's pretty much out of the question (unless I play 8 Moons and 3-4 Trinis main, which is overloading even more against non aggro decks). Also, it does open us up to Wrath like sweepers, since we will often need 2 creatures to really be a threat.
I've never seen him so upset....or ever before.
This thread (and a few others) got me to register! I'm really in love with this deck and I'm trying to figure out it's ins and outs currently. I threw together something that contained the necessary bits and now I'm just prodding the more debated options.
Currently I run this:
// Lands
10 [MM] Mountain (1)
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [EX] City of Traitors
// Creatures
3 [FUT] Gathan Raiders
3 [DIS] Rakdos Pit Dragon
4 [MR] Arc-Slogger
4 [FUT] Magus of the Moon
4 [PLC] Simian Spirit Guide
3 [PLC] Sulfur Elemental
2 [PLC] Akroma, Angel of Fury
// Spells
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [MR] Chrome Mox
4 [MR] Seething Song
4 [DK] Blood Moon
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
// Sideboard
SB: 4 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 4 [AT] Pyrokinesis
SB: 3 [DS] Trinisphere
SB: 4 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
I'm curious about what more people think about Akroma? So far I've found she's very slow unless I hit the rails perfectly and power her out safely. Even then I feel like she's only dangerous versus a few archetypes.
Also, it seems the overall consensus on maulers/sulfurs is they are dependent on what you will expect in a metagame, yeah? I do not currently own maulers and I'm not really privy to dropping money on something I may not use regularly. Is it just safer to run 3-4 sulfur elementals unless you are positive to run into plenty of thresh/goblins?
I'm thinking about dumping Akroma completely for something like this:
-2 Akroma, Angel of Fury
+1 Rakdos Pit Dragon
+1 Gathan Raiders (Sulfur Elemental? Opinions?)
I'm not terribly experienced with this deck yet, so my own opinions are kind of a show to that fact.
There's a few places online selling them for $3 each still, which is a lot more bearable than the big retailers. Just pointing that out if you assumed it was $20 for a playset, everywhere. You only need two of them for the deck (the way average lists are going) and it's an interesting multiplayer card.I do not currently own maulers and I'm not really privy to dropping money on something I may not use regularly.
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