Your deck has 56 cards. What are you missing? 4 Tops?
Keep moon-walking.
Don't know what "ballsy" mean, hope it's something coolOriginally Posted by Dark_Cynic87
I started with 4 SW too, then dropped 1 for 4th Ponder and never got back. Right now I'm testing -3rd SW +1 LDV. I like LDV but I'm still unsure (not much testing time lately.
With the list I'm running I cannot use doomsday to its full potential (going hellbent IT searching it with SDT on table). Relying on Mystical for DD+ Brainstorm/ponder/SW can be good, but still don't know if it's worth it in the SDT less list. I'll try it in place of an IGG.
The outs I'm playing to MD graveyard hate are 2xTendrils plan, SW/Confidant beatdown plan (+ mini tendrils), Wipe Away. Note there are also many times when you can just beat the opponent with the cards you have in hand using IT chains or relying on the opponent life loss.
It's an Aggro-Oriented meta (Goblins, Goyf Sligh, Burn), with a "nice" amount of thresh (low number of CB) and black disruption based decks. That's why I'm still playing Confidant in the board. There's also some Artifact disruption based decks, mainly Stax.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
I meant over, not of. Posting at 12 at night ftl. Massacre seems better than Clasm in almost every situation.
I've also come to the conclusion that an LDV/Mystical Split is the way to go, but I'm still adjusting my numbers. The raw power of LDV is just undeniable, and the card selection it offers is much greater than that of Mystical Tutor.
Ballsy, as defined by Urbandictionary.com:
1. Something which takes balls aka courage to do
2. An object which attains a ball form
3. A response when no other response is available
4. A lesser degree of shady
5. Not quite though
2x IGG is useful only against discard based decks like Pikula or when you can start the combo with LED, LED, IT -> IGG -> IT, LED, LED -> IGG -> ...
With only 1 IGG you can do only 9 storm count, but often your opponent is already at 18 lifes or you can cast for example also a Petal. Only 2 times (1 in tournament -.-) I need a second IGG in my deck in all matches I play with this deck (millions?).
You can cut the second IGG for a Doomsday. You can't search Doomsday with IT after you brake LED without SDT, but you can search it with mystical or LDV, then you have Ponder/Brainstorm/SW to take the draw4 or LED, LED Brainstorm (in the case you cast Brainstorm). Anyway usually I don't search Doomsday with IT after I brake LED because in this case often I have all the mana I need to do a loop of IGG ftw (obv if there is some graveyard hate into play/opponent's hand I choose the way of Doomsday).
About LDV it's a good idea. I still never test it. I have a vacant slot in maindeck so I can fix with this.
About advantages /disavantages:
I like especially that you can Serenity or LED: it's a tutor that can exit from chalice at 1 that is the most used hate against this deck (before chalice at 2 a player often plays chalice at 1 and then a chalice at 0; we can't consider the fact that LDV goes under chalice at CC2 a real disavantage, otherwise nobody plays Serenity, E.Truth,...).
I don't like especially that you need black mana early to cast it. Black mana it's the last mana I fetch for it (sometimes all I need it's only a Petal and island & plains into play)
In any case I think I never play more than 5 tutors that give cards disavantage + there is Doomsday that gives cards disavantage).
if you play in a meta like this one I prefer +1 E.Truth -1 Wipe Away and a Doomsday maindeck that can round on graveyard hate usually decks like Goblins, Burn, black disruption black decks play in g2/3.It's an Aggro-Oriented meta (Goblins, Goyf Sligh, Burn), with a "nice" amount of thresh (low number of CB) and black disruption based decks. That's why I'm still playing Confidant in the board. There's also some Artifact disruption based decks, mainly Stax.
@Greeone: do you have a nick on tipo1.it?
The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel. - Neuromancer
If the only way I can use Doomsday is Mystical/LDV into it, I could just tutor for bounce and bounce the graveyard hate. I'm not saying that Doomsday is unuseful in this situation, but i have to ponder if it's better than any other card in its slot (SW,LDV,IGG,Extirpate, Draw4 comes to mind).
Doomsday is good almost like IGG in building up storm to fight life gain, as a simple stack like this:
LED
LED
IT
IGG
Tendrils
builds 11 storm, counting only the D.Rit into Doomsday + Brainstorm.
It's sure as hell I'm in love with Doomsday. I simply have a thing for that card. I'll try to fit it into the deck, but I want to be sure I'm not playing any suboptimal card in my 75.
The great advantages Mystical has over LDV (just for comparison) are the better ability to shuffle a brainstorm on turn 1 (subsequently the ability to build more turn 2 kill) and the fact that you can blindly Mystical into Wipe Away against CB decks on turn 1, before CB lands.
If i could, I'd like to play with 4 Mystical+1LDV on G1 and 3 Mystical+2LDV on G2 and G3.
I'm with you on the max 5 tutors that build card disadvantage.
I'm usually confortable with english sites, but I subscribed today with GreenOne as nickname. It's good to see some italian good players around there!
Jegger, I wonder how can you find a free slot in the MDHow does your list look like?
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
With the green splash for Grips, why do you still play Wipe Away Main and no Grip?
Which card do you bounce g1, that is no Artifact or Enchantment?
Nobody plays Mage or Teeg MD and if anyone do for Teeg you have your DD->Freeze plan and if they play Mage they normally name Deed, Goyf or something.
Originally Posted by Pinder
Turns out that some weird chemical reaction between the Twinkie filling and Ranch Dressing opens up a portal straight into Hell, through which the Devil is then able to shit directly into your mouth.
Other than tutoring for LED and stacking the deck, Vault's biggest plus is that it doesn't reveal the card to your opponent. I think once you go 4 Vaults and 0 M.Tutors you wont go back to M.Tutor, Vault is the card that guarantees you the 3rd turn win every time you cast it. The deck has so many 1 drops that it's 2cc really isn't a problem, hell it's even advantageous under Counterbalance.
I use Wipe Away to hit untapped lands EOT (taking critical colored mana from opponents) and as a time walk quite a bit hitting an attacker to buy me an extra untap step. Other than bouncing Goyfs and Lands, the only thing I can think of off hand was a True Believer that someone randomly played against me. White creatures could be a problem, but I'm probably willing to accept my losses to Death & Taxes if it somehow see it in a tournament.
LDV wasn't really all that impressive given that I needed to fetch black mana for it. It was also Spell Snared a lot causing my Thrash matchup to plummet. Swamp is terrible for anything other than winning the game, and I found myself losing to Wasteland quite a bit when I had to find an Underground Sea or a Scrubland before I normally would. I don't think I'd play any more than 1 in my 17 land build, and I'm not sure that I'd play any in a more land constricted build where Wasteland can hurt even more.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Getting Lim Dul's Vault Spell Snared is like Christmas, if people are aiming their counters at your top deck tutors they aren't aiming their counters at your Infernal Tutor.
IDK about Wasteland, I've never had colored mana issues against Goblins, I guess it'd be a pain in the ass against Tempo Threshold tho'.
Only jackasses and desperate people get their Infernal Tutors Spell Snared. I rarely played LDV when I had Chant protection because it was always eating my black source on the combo turn. I get to play Mystical because blue mana is a dime a dozen and mostly worthless while comboing.
Wasteland is hardest against the thresh decks. Tempo Threshold goes downhill quickly with LDV because you need to get wasteable mana and give them spell snare targets. If tempo thresh is played in your area, LDV would be definitely unplayable.IDK about Wasteland, I've never had colored mana issues against Goblins, I guess it'd be a pain in the ass against Tempo Threshold tho'.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
I've been getting throttled by Ichorid...my own build, but it's a buddy's deck. His most impressive play was a mulligan down to 6, winning turn 1 on the draw through a chant. That's all I had. To make matters worse, he swung for 36...The only thing that would have saved me was a petal for the kicker on chant and not chanting until after he dreaded back his FKZ. Furthermore, after boarding, I don't know what to 'Pate, or even what else to board in besides Echoing Truth. Extirpating Dredgers is damn near pointless. They shrug and use other ones. Hitting Ichorid is dumb because Ichorid isn't even part of the combo; hence unnecessary against me. I playtested yesterday for 10 hours against Ichorid, and I must say it looks bleak, unless I'm a total retard and missed something quite obvious. Chant's effect is quite minimal against them because in addition to dredging during their upkeep, or timewalking them 2 times with chant (which unless your draw is right stops you from sculpting your hand fast enough to go off before running out of chant effects and getting maulled) on the draw, I daresay it's nigh unwinnable unless you get Echoing Truth down. However, Tutoring into an echoing Truth turn 1 leaves them open to combo off (with them on the play) without a second thought turn 2.
On to the topics at hand, I've been disappointed by Trip Grips, a set of Serenity and 2x 'pates vs. CB. I've been shown the truth in the brutality of CB. I recant my statement that we have a decent game against it. Boarding in 9 cards in high multiples really clogs up my list, and there's not much I can do about it. I'm thinking of dropping Serenity down to 3 and upping grips to 4. This way, I can just board in 4x Grips against CB and leave the 3x Serenity in the board. They are less useful anyway, as CB reveals 2 WAY more than 3. Serenity isn't even completely safe agaisnt Stax, but in conjunction with Grips, it becomes much more effective. Bounce has become less effective in my opinion. I only run 1x Wipe Away in my 75. I keep rushing river and E. Truth for obvious reasons, but Wipe Away has become pretty heavy to cast. I'm thinking of dropping a Scrub for either a Tundra or a Sea, but I can't figure out which I'd rather have. Also, I may go up to 16 lands, as I find myself needing more lands vs. decks I can or need to play a tad bit more conservatively against.
I'm beginning to think that if I want to be able to beat CB, I'm gonna have to go back to the red splash and put in REBs/Pyroblasts instead. They are worse all-around, but I'm not seeing any other options.
Pce,
--DC
How many lands are you running? If Scrubland is the only black source you can fetch with Flooded Strand besides the first Underground Sea, then don't replace it with a Tundra.
Keep moon-walking.
If he did that then you frankly suck as a player. You chant in response to Narcomoeba triggering the first time at worst. You can actually hold chant until they have critical mass to use Dread Return (meaning until they would be able to get 3 critters so, the third Narcomoeba with 1 bridge, the 2nd Narcomoeba with 2 bridges and a therapy, etc).
Bridge from BelowFurthermore, after boarding, I don't know what to 'Pate
Dread Return
Ichorid
Narcmoeba
Cabal Therapy
It depends on the situation, but it'd be highly unlikely I'd ever extirpate anything else.
I've found that 3 Grips, up to 2 Wipe Away, 3 Extirpate has been the perfect amount to consistently beat CB with my build.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
Yeah, you're right. I edited it.
*Team Haste!*
I don't think it is very wise to make fun of players when your advocating a build that is very bad in terms of being a combo deck.
First, I don't understand how you can cut lotus petal in a combo deck and have people take your seriously.
Second, you added sensei's divining top into the deck which just slow the deck down so much, its really hard for me to understand how this deck is so much better than Iggy Pop. Congrads on making the deck able to lose to aggressive decks now.
Third, seriously why are you playing Doomsday. I may not understand some of your other selections, but this card is complete garbage.
~Shriek~
GTFO. No, really. All the changes above have been tested and have improved the deck. Petal was cut for better cards, top is slower but makes the deck more consistent and Doomday allows for plenty of piles that win without using the graveyard.
Oh thank God someone else was thinking this also, when I first saw 0/1 Lotus Petals a huge flag went up, and then i saw SDT and Doomsday and was like...this deck cant win one turn 1/2 without drawing the perfect, why not just play ANY other combo deck?
Dont be so harsh, I dont see how using the GY slower than Ichorid does, or using Storm slower than TES does is good, either. Being able to win on turn 5 in 2 ways is not better than consistently ending the game on turn 1-2.
Seriously, if you don't know what you are talking about, don't even bother. People should come here to post and help to improve the deck, not bash it do death. All changes made so far are for making this deck each time better, not worse, so follow the deck's flow of changes so you can understand things first.
Keep moon-walking.
While I don't really agree with EmidIns changes, it annoys me that random people are barging into this thread and going "LOL THAT DECK SUX BCAUSE IT ISNT NORMAL!1!!" That doesn't mean shit. Just because we've been playing a card forever, doesn't mean it's the correct card to play. This deck is built to win in 5 ways on turn 4, yeah, and that's not so strong. What's strong is you have a much better chance of doing it through protection than TES does. For me, it's pick your poison - win before your opponents have protection, or win through it.
You should frankly read why I made fun of him (hint: it's quoted in my post). He lost to being an abysmal player. I have no sympathy for people who lose to obvious situations then make posts about the matchup not being good. I'd rather have fewer good players than more bad players.
I don't understand why you think Lotus Petal is required. FT requires three types of mana in completely different phases of the game. In the first phase, the setup phase, it requires blue mana. We need lots of blue mana to cycle through cantrips and tutors to sculpt our perfect hand. The next phase, the protection phase, requires white mana and sometimes black mana. Here you want to resolve a Chant effect. The final phase is the combo phase, where you generally only need a single black mana to start a ritual chain to win the game. If you look at how the deck casts spells, you'll notice that it wants a lot of blue mana, a moderate amount of white mana, and one black mana. What about this makes Lotus Petal necessary? Lotus Petal's sole function in combo is to accelerate your initial mana sources before you can play the appropriate amount of lands. If you are spending your first 1-2 turns playing land and cantrips, what does Lotus Petal give you? You enter the protection phase with WWB. This is enough mana to get you to the combo phase. You enter the combo phase with your black mana. You now win the game.First, I don't understand how you can cut lotus petal in a combo deck and have people take your seriously.
Lotus Petal is only required if you want to win on turn 1 or turn 2 because you don't have lands. The issue is that playing on turn 1 and 2, you turn your opponent's effective hard counters for your spells from 4 to 8 in your problem matchup. Why would you want to make your opponent's cards better? I certainly don't. I also don't enjoy the crapshoot of running my single Chant into Daze and continuing to combo knowing I could lose to a second Daze, Spell Snare, Force of Will, or a Stifle effect. If I wanted to roll the dice, I'd play SI or Belcher.
I've yet to run into a compelling reason why I SHOULD include the card. I'd be really interested in hearing it. Everyone else is doing it and Iggy Pop always ran it aren't so compelling to me.
Congrats on being unable to properly play Sensei's Divining Top. This still has a faster goldfish than Iggy Pop while doing it with more protection and ignoring graveyard hate. Those are pretty big wins. If you're losing to aggressive decks you simply need to learn how to play. Failure to goldfish with light resistance by turn 3 is an indication of either extremely poor decision making or extremely poor drawing. Given that I've played hundred of games against aggro and been significantly screwed on draws less than 20 times, I would heavily learn towards inexperience with the deck causing poor decisions as the reason you're not getting there. I suggest more goldfishing, or perhaps presenting play situations so I can help fix your decision making.Second, you added sensei's divining top into the deck which just slow the deck down so much, its really hard for me to understand how this deck is so much better than Iggy Pop. Congrads on making the deck able to lose to aggressive decks now.
This makes me think you have no idea how to play combo at all. If you can't see the obvious interactions in the deck with Doomsday, you might want to reexamine what each card in the deck does. It ignores graveyard hate, provides more storm than IGG, doesn't recur enemy hate, increases goldfish speed, and allows you to play around miscellaneous hate like Chalices. The only reason I can come up with for not playing Doomsday is failure to comprehend the Doomsday stacks, which is not really my problem. The card doesn't actually have any downsides as far as I can tell, outside of not being available in Japanese foil.Third, seriously why are you playing Doomsday. I may not understand some of your other selections, but this card is complete garbage.
When you win with this deck you do so with extreme certainty. There is no interaction in the game at all. Your opponent has cards, but they are meaningless. There is no "hope he doesn't have double force", "counter + crypt and I'm screwed", or "random meddling mage, gg". You don't look at a Trinisphere or Chalice and say gg. The deck is designed to be inevitable against hate while still having a faster goldfish than any aggro deck.
As far as needing a perfect draw to win on turn 2, it does it about 20% of the time. I'd be extremely surprised if those hands are considered perfect draws.
Top, Ritual, Mystical Tutor, LED, Land, Land is a turn 2 kill in a goldfish. That's hardly a perfect hand. There are a ton of variations of this, and this is just a Doomsday kill.
BZK! - Storm Boards
Been there, tried that, still casting Doomsday.
Drawing my deck for 0 mana since 2013.
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