Woot for wanking. On a more serious note, I think that adding 6cc dragons is a no go. And Rorix has RRR in the cost, making him close to uncastable without a Song or Moon down. Since he cut out Blood Moon, I don't see this happening reliably.Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
@ "If I can't cast them, they get pitched to Mox" comment - you will almost never be able to reliably cast the 6cc or 2RRR dragon, so they become Mox fodder. The ideal for costs in the deck is 3 and 5 imo and partially proven by:
0: Mox, Crypt (board), CotV (set@1,2 usually) [8]
1: Needle? Shattering Spree? [both SB tech, maybe 4 slots max]
2: Jitte, Pyroclasm (board) [3+ slots]
3: SoFI, SoLS, Song, Moon, Magus, Akroma (morph) Raiders (morph), SSG, 3Sphere (pre/postboard), Mauler/Sulfer. [like 20+ slots]
4: Dragon [4 slots is all to see here folks, move along]
5: Slogger, Raiders (hardcast) [8]
6+: Akroma [0-3]
Obviously the spot to hit is 3 or be able to jump into 5. 3 is obviously sexy for Turn 1Tomb/City + SSG/Mox or followed by Turn 2 Mountain. And 5 is pretty much for Seething Song and after hitting a land/SSG/Mox.
I didn't think it had to be spelled out, but focusing on the high end costs when you wanna use Moon/Magus doesn't work well. They shut off your 2 mana lands as accelerants and force you to use Song or get 5+ lands down(Sundering Titan? WTF?)
The thing about the build I provided, is that it stays more or less true to the mana curve of Dragon Stompy. Even the most expensive card (Rorix) is true to those Dragon Stompy decks that are already running Akroma, because it happens to have the same casting cost as Akroma's unmorphing cost. So as long as you only include ONE Rorix then you shouldn't have a problem. Covetous Dragon is a 4R casting cost (if I am not mistaken) making it playable, so long as you have an artifact on the field (given the number of Artifacts we play that shouldn't be a problem) and Dragon Whelp is a 2RR casting cost, which again is actually cheaper than its counterpart the Gathan Raiders hard casting cost (which unfortunately for Dragon Whelp is almost never used). Still I think the version I provided has some small potential as a competitive deck, just not alot. It still makes use of the lock pieces, and does so very well. However the Dragons simply are not as good of creatures as the cards used in a traditional Dragon Stompy deck.
On a side note, I would like to suggest that we as a Dragon Stompy community, try out Covetous Dragon as a replacement for the Slogger, sure it doesn't have the "R: remove 10 cards off the top of your library to deal 2 damage to target creature or player" effect... however it does have a 6/5 power toughness and flying to boot... making it slightly stronger than the Slogger, and more evasive. On the flip side it does have a severe weakness in that it dies should all of your artifacts be destroyed, however by the time that becomes relavent, you should have your opponent on their last legs... at least in theory.
"He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."
While I'd love a 6/5 flyer at that price, a typical DS list runs between 8-16 artifacts. I didn't test it so I might be wrong, but I'd say that while it might be enough to consistently cast Covetous, it's almost certainly not enough to make it consistently resilient to a 2-for-1 via EE or Grip or Tin-Street Hooligan/Tinkerer.
Then there's the matter of how much do we really want to replace Slogger (answer: we don't, at least not copies 1-3), but that particular problem comes first.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
some very good and valid points...
"He's like fire and ice and rage. He's like the night, and the storm in the heart of the sun. He's ancient and forever... He burns at the center of time and he can see the turn of the universe... and... he's wonderful."
The first list I played at nationals had Covetous Dragon, and he was underwhelming compared to actual 5CC threats. Not to mention you usually want to run 4 Great Furnace with him, which then weakens the manabase signifigantly by allowing artifact desturction to be LD and lets wasteland hit your colored sources.
The closest to another 5CC beater I ever thought was good was Tahngarth, since he can double as removal, but in testing he was also poor. And even if he had been good, at 5CC he was unplayable. The deck needs more low curve threats than high curve threats.
Red Wizard needs food badly!
Okay to try to get this thread back on topic, I am going to repost my deck list for finalizing thoughts on its list. Now remember, my meta consists of the following:
3 Threshold decks (one of which is BGw with Worship)
3 to 4 burn decks (one of which is Rw for Lightning Helix)
1 or 2 Landstill
1 Goblin deck that doesn't always show up
1 Angel Stompy that doesn't always show up (its owner usually plays threshold)
3 to 5 other random decks that usually use a variety of colors and strategies (including from time to time Ichorid, and Stax)
and I think 1 to 2 Painters Stone's are going to be making an appearance in the near future....
Okay so the deck that I think we had agreed on so far is as follows:
//Lands:
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
//Creatures:
1 Akroma, Angel of Fury
3 Arc-Slogger
4 Gathan Raiders
4 Rakdos Pit Dragon
3 Taurean Mauler
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Simian Spirit Guide
//Spells:
4 Seething Song
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
2 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
//Sideboard:
1 Trinisphere
4 Pyroclasm
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 Pithing Needle
3 Anarchy
So do you think this version of the deck will do well in my particular meta, or should I modify it some more?
Wow, this deck has come full circle. You know Covetous Dragon was in the original DS builds, before Slogger became big? Why go back to outdated tech? Running CDragon opens you up even more to Serenity, Spree, and Tranquility, making DS more vulnerable to massive Card Disadvantage than it already is.
Tephraderm, its a house against any deck playing Tarmogoyf, coming online the turn you play it. And no one would dare double block it. Even better than Tahngarth.
Also, has anyone tested Blistering Firecat? Its been a total house agaisnt the Control and Thresh matchups. Opponents don't know if the morph on the table is Akroma, Firecat, or Raiders. All of which are scary depending on the situation.
Team Unicorn is too hetero for me.While this is close it's still wrong. Every one knows it's an orgy of unicorns.******s?
TeaM NOVA for life.
I'll still consider it. In fact I totally over looked and forgot about the Covetous Dragons. Might as well try to find the right price for those cards and see what happens after some test runs with it. They haven't seen much play since Mirrodin was first released to the general public or perhaps after Kai won Worlds back in 1999.
At the same time I'll have to postpone my review (there is already one on it but it's alread out of date) on the prototype on my video blog.
I'd play SoLaS over Sophie, given that you'll have to deal with Mystic Enforcers and possibly bitchin' Silver Knights. Protection from Red isn't that important against Burn, since they usually kill the creature in response to the equip, and if they kill it later they're investing two spells to do it, which is a fine trade (especially when you get back the creature on your next swing).
Also, I'd consider turning the SB Trinisphere into a fourth Pithing Needle. Partly because increasing the number of Trinispheres offers diminishing returns, and partly because Painter's Stone might give you trouble depending on how it's built - they can play the combo through Blood Moon, and you can only disrupt them with Chalice@1 or three points of Slogger/Jitte damage.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
@Cathal83
I'd run another Jitte over Akroma in your list. Jitte is a house against burn, and it will help against Goblins and random aggro. Akroma isn't worth it in your meta.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
Is Lotus Petal able to substitute (not completely but somewhat) Simian Spirit Guide. I don't have any Simian Spirit Guides, and if I don't get enough... can I sub like 2 of them for 2 Lotus Petals? Or is the deck just not playable like that?
You know that nightmare where your running but you just can't get away...
It's playable sure, but not optimal, especially if you're running trinishperes maindeck. Is it really that hard to get a hold of simian spirit guides around you? they're a common from a really recent set.. i'd be really surprised if friends of yours don't have tons from drafing them.
No. SSG is one of the top two best red cards in the deck. If you don't have $1 to spare for a playset, you've got bigger problems than playing competitive Legacy.
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
Nah, I'm just missing two commons. I have everything else needed to play competative Legacy.
I was only asking the 'what if' question, I never said I had a problem obtaining them.
You know that nightmare where your running but you just can't get away...
You aren't looking hard enough. There are other sources out there other than SCGs, I used other reliable sources to gain a hold of parts from the internet. In fact they even permitted me to send my payment in cold cash. Ya just gotta test each and every single one that you know of and mark down who you don't want to do business with again.
SSG is also better because it can get you out of a daze. Trinisphere also completely shuts down lotus petal.
True as the Petal vulnerable to so many different blockades over just a few that the SSG has when it comes down to making best use of the cards.
SSG can be blocked by Needle, Stifle, and any other card that can block activated abilities.
One thing that has always impressed me about SSG as well is the fact that because it is played from the hand it can be such a surprise: it is such a nice feeling when you can from basically out of nowhere pump that pit dragon for one and become hellbent, allowing you to suddenly swinging for lethal damage. Or how about tap out to cast a slogger, and still be able to nuke that lackey in response to a warren's weirding. Sadly, lotus petal is right in one's face from the very beginning: the subtleties and tricks of Dragon Stompy are what make the deck so dangerous.
Aren't you the guy who plays more than 4 dragons in dragon stompy? Anyways, SSG us always better than the alternative because: It's a mana source, making it just as good as lotus petal/desperate ritual, and: It's a beater, in many situations just as good as Magus. You need the 8 fast mana effects, but you also want a high threat density. So play SSG.
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