[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[Humphrey]

My current Version is this one:


// Lands

4 [b] Swamp (1)
4 [b] Scrubland
2 [GP] Godless Shrine
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [TE] Wasteland

// Creatures
3 [AP] Spectral Lynx
3 [b] Hypnotic Specter
3 [b] Black Knight
1 Nantuko Shade
1 Jotun Grunt
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant

// Spells
4 [AP] Vindicate
4 [b] Dark Ritual
4 [b] Swords to Plowshares
3 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (3)
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [OD] Haunting Echoes

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 4 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [UL] Engineered Plague
SB: 2 [6E] Serenity

[Shtriga]

1 shade and 1 grunt? you need more beaters in there. the knights are weak by today's standards, with tarmogoyf being everywhere and all

[Hummingbird TG]

As has been previously noted, your creatures are weak. Tombstalkers are missing (for the last time, they work just fine with Confidant, so spare us the trouble of reiterating that, just run 2 or 3)...Haunting Echoes is an interesting idea, though. How has it been for you? And, Enlightened Tutor? To fetch what?

[Humphrey]

Maybe Tombstalker is an idea, at least one.

Haunting Echoes is awesome, its unexpected and can win u the game.

Tutors to fetch the other SB cards or Jitte

[Hummingbird TG]

1) Tutors are Card Disadvantage
2) They are slow, adding a W cost to whatever else you were paying for your spell anyway, and still taking a turn (for you to draw the spell). In other words, you can play your Plague turn 4 earliest, assuming no acceleration, for example. Not very efficient, is it?

That's why I question the inclusion of Enlightened Tutor. If it works for you, though, kindly tell us more, as i dont see, myself, how it could possibly work..

[Clark Kant]

I was interested in trying out the Servant + Grindstone combo into a aggro black shell. Disruptive discard and tutoring goes very well with this combo.

Here is a quick untested thrown together build, it clearly needs to be optimized...

1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Dark Ritual

4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Thoughtseize
3 Duress/Hymn to Tourach
3 Grindstone
2 Snuff Out
2 Swords to Plowshares
2 Tainted Pact/Beseech the Queen

3 Nantuko Shade
4 Painter's Servant
4 Hypnotic Spectar
4 Tombstalker

The plan IS to beat the crap out of your opponent. The combo is the back up plan should that original plan fail.

Or another way to look at it, is this is a combo deck, but with an extremely strong aggro backup to distract your opponent or win through a Stifle/Gaea's Blessing.

The fact is, this deck can support both the combo and aggro routes very well. It has more than enough tools that it can consistently go with either goal in mind.

That kind of flexibility is hard to come by and in my opinion undervalued.

The one thing I will change with the list, is that I will add a singleton Lurebound Scarecrow (or Phyrexian Warbeast or Sarcomancy or Bitterblossom or Engineered Explosives or Jitte) to the list to grab with Enlightened Tutor in a pinch.

This is because Lurebound Scarecrow is a very strong and solid beater in this deck. And it can be tutored up with Enlightened Tutor should the combo route fail you thanks to an Extripate or something. Thus, the E. Tutors never become dead cards.

I didn't want to use the deadguy shell because the deadguy shell is slow, sucky and largely defunct imho.

As nice as Persecute is with a Servant on the board. It can be weak without a Servant since so many decks run upwards of three colors. And it's pretty mana intensive. I just felt Duress/Hymn was generally more disruptive.

It was important to me that the deck retained the traditional brokeness of Suicide Black. The combo is there as a backup plan, but one that you often draw into and resolve while your opponents are busy worrying about your other threats.

I'm not sure what to use as the two of tutor. Beseech is perfect but it costs a lot of mana.

Tainted Pact has the bonus of being cheaper and being an instant.

So at the end of your opponents turn, you can cast Tainted Pact, and try to tutor into either Enlightened Tutor or your second combo piece. Enlightened Tutor is an instant as well so you could cast it immediatley after too, and thus draw the card during the start of your turn. And if you have neither combo piece in hand, Pact at the end of your opponent's turn into a Thoughtseize, or more beats is a solid play as well.

[Hummingbird TG]

When you devote so many slots to a clunky-looking combo, I doubt you can logically, or in any other way, call it a Sui Black Deck with a backup combo plan. More like a bad mixture of both. There are thirteen slots to your combo. That's alot of card slots. Also, Servant and Grindstone don't do anything alone, and other than tutoring for these cards, Enlightened Tutor does not seem to have much other use in the deck.

Tainted Pact seems interesting, though. How often do you whiff with it, with all the 4-offs in the deck?

I would also like to ask, why not Dark Confidant to draw into the combo? You could stick with 6 Tutors(though I'd prefer Pact, which can find more things than Tutor, assuming Pact actually finds stuff) or less, but cut 4 slots from between the Servants and Grindstone to make room for him (and the 4th Tombstalker, of course). Confidant has the bonus of also being useful normally while playing with a Deadguy/Sui-Black plan.

[Clark Kant]

A long long time ago (even before the formats split), I actually ran Tainted Pact in a Suicide Black build with a lot of less than full playsets of utility cards like Reanimate. Pact is actually pretty good at getting you a threat when you need it.

I was worried about losing 8-9 life by revealing a Tombstalker off a Confidant and losing the game.

And between Tombstalker and Confidant, I MUCH prefer Tombstalker.

But the deck IS called Suicide Black.

So I guess if you want, you could go...
-1 Tombstalker
-1 Hypnotic Specter
-1 Tainted Pact/Painter's Servant
-1 Tainted Pact/Grindstone
+4 Dark Confidant

and pray that you don't wipe out half your life.

I am curious about one thing though. How often do you guys actually swing with Confidant? Isn't the damage you occasionally do with it more than made up with for the extra vulnerability it has as a creature, and the extra damage you deal to yourself. If that is the case, in a build of the deck running Tombstalker, could Phyrexian Arena be used instead of confidant? You never lose 8 life to Tombstalker or even 3 life to stuff like Specter and Negator.

So with the list I posted above, might this be more optimal?
-2 Tainted Pact
-1 Painter's Servant
+3 Phyrexian Arena

[Hummingbird TG]

Arena is slow. It costs 3. And it has no chance of beating when you need it to, such as against Control. I've had Goyfs and Stalkers Extirpated and won through Bob beats once, for example, too. And Arena will always cost you one life (while I run 27 0cc cards AND 3 Tops). Besides, you can't kill your own Arena in a pinch.

Oh, and did I mention it cost 3?

[kabal]

I've been testing this build out with some positive results. So far my gauntlet is somewhat limited, basically includes Ugw CB Threshold, Affinity, Belcher and White Goblins.

Any Suggestions/Thoughts?

// Lands
1 Forest
1 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Bayou
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Polluted Delta
4 Scrubland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Volrath's Stronghold

// Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
3 Jotun Grunt
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Doran, the Siege Tower

// Enchantments
2 Pernicious Deed

// Spells
2 Extirpate
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
3 Vindicate

// Artifacts
2 Engineered Explosives
3 Sensei's Divining Top

[electrolyze]

kabal, your list looks pretty solid,

my list is almost the same, the only thing u have diferent with my list is:

-1 vindicate
-1 deed

+2 extirpate

how have they been working out for you in the maindeck?

[Clark Kant]

Kabal, one change I would test in the list is...

-3 Jotun Grunt
-4 Dark Confidant
-2 Extripate
-2 Deed

for

+4 Tombstalker
+4 Hypnotic Specter or +3 Nantuko Shade
+4 Snuff Out

Deed doesn't seem all that great here.

You are trying to do too much imo. The aggro route is the superior option to the board control route with Deed.

[whienot]

@Clark

I don't think turning the deck into a lesser Eva-Green is the way to go. Confidant + Top will win more games than Specter + Stalker.

@ Kabal

The deck is solid. Stronghold is such a great card in this deck. I almost want to go to 2-3, but that leads to mana issues.

Have you considered Living Wish? It lets you tutor for a boarded Stronghold/Eternal Witness/Tombstalker/hate creature of choice, which seems pretty hott. It's pretty mana intensive though, possibly just a cute, uneeded trick.

Thoughts?

[kabal]

@Clark

I don't think turning the deck into a lesser Eva-Green is the way to go. Confidant + Top will win more games than Specter + Stalker.

I totally agree with you here.

@ Kabal

The deck is solid. Stronghold is such a great card in this deck. I almost want to go to 2-3, but that leads to mana issues.

Have you considered Living Wish? It lets you tutor for a boarded Stronghold/Eternal Witness/Tombstalker/hate creature of choice, which seems pretty hott. It's pretty mana intensive though, possibly just a cute, uneeded trick.

Thoughts?

There are many times that I wish I was running > 1 Stronghold since it is so powerful. The whole mana issue as you pointed out and the fact that it is Legendary really prohibit you.

As for Living wish, that seems like some interesting tech. I like the idea of grabbing a Stronghold or Tombstalker. A Tombstalker would be some sweet sauce, since I can't run those MB. I'll have to give it a try.

[Hummingbird TG]

Nobody says you can't. Playing both Bob and Stalker would win you more games than lose them. Flipping a Tombstalker doesn't always kill you, and doesn't even always happen. But imagine when you need a 5/5 Flyer as an out, but play none in your deck and lose an entire game from early on, because of that.

[fourleafedmonkey]

What does anyone think about meekstone?

It would mean cutting Tombstalker, but it stops almost all relevant threats [tarmagoyf] these days while still letting your shade, hippy and bob do what they want.

Another suggestion would be runed halo, though the white commitment could be a little difficult.

[Hummingbird TG]

What does Runed Halo do anyway? Sure, you can name Tendrils. Then TES goes for EtW, and Fetchland Tendrils, Brain Freeze. Sure thing. Or, you could name Tarmogoyf. Which would rely on your opponent to actually have to *draw* the Tarmogoyf, else Runed Halo would be dead. Proactive answers that are too specific = fail, and as a reactive answer, it's (most of the time) worse than StP. And, as you mentioned, the WW manacost. Which wrecks your manabase so much it's not funny.

Meekstone sounds interesting, though. What slot'd you put it in? Maindeck? It seems slightly narrow, though, and doesn't stop Landstill or Goblins in any way whatsoever.

In other news, if I play 4 Pithing Needle (SB), would it be advisable to play any number of Polltued Delta in addition to my 4 Bloodstained Mires (I'm definitely playing the Mires, need some fetches at least)? If so, how many?

[Illissius]

What does Runed Halo do anyway? Sure, you can name Tendrils. Then TES goes for EtW, and Fetchland Tendrils, Brain Freeze. Sure thing.

You can name Orim's Chant. Of course, in a deck without countermagic, that's not much use.

Or, you could name Tarmogoyf. Which would rely on your opponent to actually have to *draw* the Tarmogoyf, else Runed Halo would be dead.

Obviously you're going to name whatever creature your opponent actually has in play.

That being said, this is not the right deck for Runed Halo: when you remove a creature, you don't want it to stick around to block, either. Runed Halo is best for purely defensive decks like Landstill and Enchantress.

[Hummingbird TG]

As a reactive answer, it's (most of the time) worse than StP.

As I mentioned in my above post, though, even if you name a creature the opponent already has in play, you're better off playing StP.

[fourleafedmonkey]

As I mentioned in my above post, though, even if you name a creature the opponent already has in play, you're better off playing StP.

Yeah, but it does stop more than just one, unlike STP.