It's really meta dependent. I mean, Pyrostatic Pillar was placed in the board to help fight Storm combo in case you do not draw 3Sphere. I guess you could call it a "win-more" card, but it is as effective as can be when you become Orim's Chanted and can't play anything the rest of the turn. Trinisphere and Blasts should be enough for the most part. This was strictly placed in the board for this large-tournament purpose, as I was anticipating more Storm-based combo decks.
They would be first-cut at any rate.
EDIT: I'm also an advocate of this deck being placed in the Established Forum. It has placed highly in quite a few high-profile tournaments since it's inception, and that has only been in the last two months. I'm for it.
Is there anything that could replace Recruiter
? I'm thinking that's the biggest thing holding the deck back from seeing major play. I mean 300 plus for a play set of recruiters not to mention the cost of Grindstones, if you don't have them. But the only thing I could even think of was Gamble and it seems kinda meh.
Quote Scrumdogg @ Amrod's:
"Didn't you know that Mike Glow invented this format?? We are all just renting it."
The EPIC Syndicate - Grindermen
Team Disquailified Poster Duey Cheatem & Howe.
The stories of my demise have been grossly exaggerated
Before I did the fiscally irresponsible thing and acquired Recruiters, I was thinking about alternatives. I also thought about Gamble, and maybe combining it with Goblin Welder. That turned into a totally different deck though. It seems like a similar Portal-related issue that keeps Faerie Stompy from seeing as much play as it should.
Quick question: how is a boarded-in Gaea's Blessing handled when mulled into the graveyard? Is Faerie Macabre able to remove it before it is shuffled back into the library?
Yes, it's trigger goes on the stack when it is discarded then you finish milling your library then the trigger resolves. So you just discard the Macabre then. They still shuffle their library back in but the blessings are removed.
Team Hammafist
Originally Posted by Admiral_Arzar
How cool would it be to search up Ali from Cairo with a Recruiter? That's like a $150 play. I like this deck but hate it's guts, as I will never be able to play it ever.
info.ninja
Faerie Macabre is a much worse answer to Gaea's Blessing than Tormod's Crypt. Both are free, except that only the first is uncounterable. It's also true that Tormod's Crypt ends the game right away.
Keep moon-walking.
That may be true. But you can Imperial Recruiter for Faerie Macabre, which is a pseudo-Trinket Mage for Tormod's instead of putting the deck in top-deck mode. Blessing is not an issue. All they'd get is one more turn, and they'd have to be in top-deck mode anyways if they couldn't stop the initial Grind.
And nothing can replace Imperial Recruiters. If you want to play this deck, you've really got to pay to dance.
Legend, I meant to ask you about this before: have you been happy dropping down to 2 Jayas? I suspected that would work fine, but have you missed the third at all?
Not at all. Jaya is a very important card in the deck; she serves as a lock component and a finisher. The only problem is, she's a legend (and her cost has two red, which is fine but will sometimes cost you a colorless mana burn off Tomb or City). And with Recruiters, you can always find her if you need her. Since the cut, I've had no issues whatsoever.
As for big creatures, I originally played Triskelion in the board as a one-of. He's not bad, but costs a little much, which is why he was cut.
Last edited by Michael Keller; 07-01-2008 at 04:56 PM.
I tried Lightning Bolt but never find that card is amazing unless to burn 'kill me' creatures like Lackey, Meddling Mage, and Dark Confidant. .Some monsters like Goyf and Crusher usually get bigger in instant speed when I bolt them. .
I love multifunctional cards so for replacement I'm preparing Dead/Gone, in burns Lackey, Mage, and Bob as well as LB. .bounce Goyf, Crusher (owh yeah, the counter is gone), and even Tombstalker (yes your opponent must pay delve cost again). .unlike LB, this card just bad as finisher. .thought?
n my baby says,"papa papa, u don't payat upkeep. ."
"Tidal forces of the blood moon wrench and buckle the land, drawing monoliths of stone and soil toward the flaming orb"
It's generally important to be able to expend only one mana to do three damage to any target. You'd be surprised how small Tarmogoyf ends up being in this match: You play no Enchantments, no Sorceries, no Planeswalkers, Artifacts which are generally placed in the R.F.G. pile, Artifacts which place cards in the R.F.G. pile, Instants, Lands, and Creatures. That should match your opponent's graveyard. And even if Goyf gets to a 4/5, you deal damage and Bolt. Works just as well.
On the flip-side, your Blast effects put anything into your opponent's graveyard. But then again, if you were going to Blast something, you'd probably blast the Goyf.
I've been considering removing the Vexing Shushers completely from the sideboard. In Hadley, I didn't board them in once and I ended up playing against blue all day. He feels like a "win-more" card, but helps against Chalice. Yet, so does Goblin Tinkerer.
Chalice at one really doesn't hurt the deck a whole lot. It negates the Blast effects in your hand, but you still have Painter and Jaya to handle that.
In reference to the sideboard, I've given some thought to the following cards:
Sirocco: It was originally in my list in preparation for Hadley. It's a really solid choice and puts cards in your opponent's hand (especially in they pack a lot of blue spells) at a premium.
Burnout: This card was in the original list. All it does is replace itself and counters a blue spell. It might be overkill.
Ali from Cairo: Nifty in the right scenario. Against decks like Ichorid and Stompy variants, he can save you until you find an answer. I already play Arbiter, which is strictly better against Ichorid, but Ali saves you from losing.
Aladdin: Stealing artifacts can be fun, but I'd rather destroy them with the much better Tinkerer.
Spinal Villain: Destroying blue creatures can be fun.
As far as the main-deck goes, I'm pretty content with the way the deck is performing, so I don't want to go all out and make abrupt changes with it. I do however, share some concerns with a few selections:
Trinisphere in the Main: It's important to be able to shut down opposing combo such as Ichorid, TES, etc. by getting this card out in the early goings. The rise of these decks paired with the addition of Trinisphere in the main has been huge, as it won me most of my rounds in Hadley. But against more aggressive decks, it can be particularly bad if I'm on the draw and I'm already at a disadvantage creature-wise. I'm teetering on this one. I already run Magus and Blasts, which were effective enough before Hadley. Trinisphere is fantastic, don't get me wrong, but what separates this deck from Dragon Stompy is Seething Song. That makes Trinisphere a hell of a lot better there, as there are more one cost spells here. I'm really thinking about moving this to the board again.
Life Post-Sphere in the Main: I'm tossing around ideas for the four slots if Sphere were to be removed from the main. Originally, I cut these for them:
-2 Active Volcano
-1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
-1 Vexing Shusher
I really want to keep those out as they diluted the original version with too much focus on stopping blue. Eight Blast effects with Jaya and Magus seem and tested sufficient.
Thoughts?
With budget reason, I choose Fortune Thieve instead of Ali from Cairo
I've tested 2-3 Wheel of Fate and surprisingly satisfied with the performance, my 7 new cards will always better than the opponent's thanks to ancient tomb and friends also SSG + Pyro / REB. .
@Mr Legend, I'll go to my local tourney this weekend and unlike your meta, there's almost no combo here so I have no place to say about Trinisphere mainboard (mine contain pyrokinesis on that slot). .
I must agree that Vexing and Active Volcano are overbullet, Jaya simply can solve everything so you can't cut her, she has to show up. .
n my baby says,"papa papa, u don't pay
"Tidal forces of the blood moon wrench and buckle the land, drawing monoliths of stone and soil toward the flaming orb"
After playing with 3Spheres maindecked for a few games, I decided to put them back in the sideboard. They don't allow you to play a Servant and a Blast or multiple Blasts on the same turn, which I don't like.
Legend, I considered Spinal Villain, but I felt like Jaya is always better.
For now, for the 4 slots in question, I'm considering these 2 combinations:
1. +2 Active Volcano, +2 Magma Jet
2. +1 Jaya, +3 Magma Jet
I've only tested #1, but it seemed to work well. I know it has the 2 extra blue-haters, but I tended to get them once I already had a Servant. Still, I understand the concern with too much stuff that relies on targets being blue. For that reason, #2 could be a better choice, as none of those cards are Servant-dependent. I also am beginning to see the logic behind having 3 Jayas: she is awesome with Servant, but doesn't need him, and there is never a problem with the Legendary rule because you can always discard the extra one to use her ability. Additionally, I must say that while Magma Jet should not replace Lightning Bolt, I think it has a place in the deck...it adds quite a bit of consistency, and seems more efficient than Wheel of Fate (I haven't tried Wheel of Fate however).
Wheel of Fate is interesting, but to be honest, I really wouldn't want to drop that against an opponent playing Ichorid. There are a few around here and I played against it twice in Mass.
When I choose to suspend Wheel of Fate, usually when I have Painter or Recruiter in my opening hand, so assume when suspended is last for two or one, you have prepared Painter ready on board with some protection (ok, at least one) in your hand. .
The time Fate get resolved, probability to get at least 4 mana (to cast grindstone and activate it), Grindstone itself, and more mana plus Blast effect to assist are incredibly high. .
So even against Ichorid especially game 1, it's about probability. .
Or you win this turn, or you let Ichorid draw discard more and then they win. .
Game 2, you can just simply board wheel out for anti-grave. .
n my baby says,"papa papa, u don't pay
"Tidal forces of the blood moon wrench and buckle the land, drawing monoliths of stone and soil toward the flaming orb"
I tested a bunch this afternoon, and I ended up with this list:
10 Mountains
4 City
4 Tomb
4 Mox
4 SSG
4 Servant
4 Recruiter
4 Magus
3 Jaya
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Magma Jet
4 RE Blast
4 P Blast
1 Active Volcano
4 Grindstone
SB:
4 Trinisphere
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Pyrokinesis
3 Blood Moon
1 Goblin Tinkerer
1 Silent Arbiter
1. I found that 3 Jayas was a good number. She is too useful once you go into topdecking mode to have less than 3 in my opinion, not to mention that the Legendary drawback doesn't really apply to her because of her abilities.
2. After experimenting with several different ratios of Lightning Bolt:Magma Jet:Active Volcano, I found that 3: 3: 1 worked very well.
-I didn't notice that I needed more than 3 Bolts.
-Magma Jets got me out of trouble many times and helped me keep pace with the opponent (especially when I boarded in 3Spheres). Additionally, it helped my decisions in some cases by letting me see what I was going to draw. There were a significant number of instances where Magma Jet helped me stabilize my mana situation by either finding the land I needed or scrying away unnecessary ones.
-I chose the single Active Volcano over a 4th Bolt because the vast majority of the time I drew it, I either already had a Servant, or I already had Jaya (which made it somewhat irrelevant). On a few occasions, the Volcano allowed me to "blast" a permanent and keep a real Blast in hand for countering, or "blast" 2 permanents in one turn, basically destroying my opponents manabase.
3. I'm still trying to decide on all the sideboard cards. I liked having extra Blood Moons just because they up the chances of shutting down many decks in the first 2 turns, but I'm also thinking about Pithing Needles. One specific concern I have is helping my matchup against Rock-style decks. What are some other good options?
If I can make time during a business trip next weekend, I'm going to bring this to a tournament. Any ideas and feedback are appreciated.
Last edited by DrewliusMaximus; 07-06-2008 at 06:34 PM.
My take without testing this deck. Pretty janky I know but hey what the heck.
4 Ancient Den
4 Great Furnace
3 Wasteland
4 City of Brass
3 Gemstone Mine
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Pyroblast
4 Enlightened Tutor
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Armageddon
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 Painter's Servant
3 Grindstone
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Arcbound Ravager
4 Ornithopter
3 Cranial Plating
(No sideboard because until I know whether its worth making this deck )
After playing this deck the past week in the local Syracuse metagame, I came to several conclusions about the deck:
1.) A weakness was exposed in the finals of the Hadley event late last month when I lost with the deck against Survival. Game one was much closer, but game two was a blowout and there wasn't much I could do when it mattered most except top-deck.
2.) I was soundly beaten by several green aggro-based decks (including a Constructed Elf deck, 2-0) this past weekend at the Comix Zone. As strange as that may sound, it gave me a window of opportunity for improvement.
Here is a short list of cards that are generally considered bad for Imperial Painter:
Krosan Grip
Gaea's Blessing
Umazawa's Jitte
Sword of Fire and Ice
These cards posed a serious problem which I'm certain was a pre-conceived notion after the deck did so well. It's important to address these threats and how we deal with them.
After sitting down for a long time and doing some serious adjusting, I figured out some answers which may or may not prove to be ultimately effective against these particular threats. In my list, there have been major subtractions and additions which have improved on the deck's worst match-ups, as today I went 3-1 in a tournament, more-so facing my (previously) absolute worst match-ups. Here are the cards I've removed, as they ultimately proved to be less effective and not "business enough" against the general threat of aggressive-based decks.
-4 Trinisphere
-1 Lightning Bolt
Vexing Shusher
I sold this card short of the main-deck not that long ago. I removed a copy from the main and placed all four in the sideboard. I was wrong. It is especially important to be able to stop your most important spells in hand from being countered off Chalice and Counterbalance. Those cards aren't generally a problem for this deck, because most of your spells cost three mana. However, there will be times when you have a hand of two or three Blasts and a Grindstone and your opponent drops Chalice. This creature is too important to forget, as I've reinstated his position in the main build as a one-of.
+1 Vexing Shusher
Magma Jet
Quite simply, this card allows you to setup your next draw(s) so you are able to draw into something good when you need it. It's a burn spell, which gives help against aggro as well. The scrye is the real reason for its inclusion, and that is a special necessity the deck was lacking.
+3 Magma Jet
Fledgling Dragon
Most of the time, I was lacking a bomb which I couldn't drop against some bad-ass opposing creatures. The deck needed more "oomph", as in to say, more firepower. This creature, aside from being a potential Shivan Dragon for four mana upon casting, can more importantly be Imperial Recruiter-ed for anytime when you need him most. He is now the official alternate win condition of my deck and provides a much-needed beating instead of 1/1's and 2/2's going the distance.
+1 Fledgling Dragon
Sideboard
Your sideboard is ultimately meta-dependent, but there is one card in particular I'd like you to take notice in:
Viashino Heretic
This guy is great. Not only does he fit the curve, but he provides unique assistance because of his ass. S.o.F.I and Jitte once an opposing critter hits can spell trouble for a Goblin Tinkerer, as he will die from either the counters or damage. Heretic can withstand that shot and he also nails your opponent for some much needed damage. I play two in my board.
Pyrokinesis
I upped the count to four in my board after realizing how genuinely good this card is. It clears the path, what else is there to say?
All of these subtractions and additions have vastly improved the match against more aggressive-based decks. Now, the deck has the capability to:
1.) Dodge Chalice of the Void.
2.) Win the game with bigger creatures and using the attack phase more effectively.
3.) Manipulate your drawing scheme so you can draw something relevant.
These are areas which the deck was sorely lacking, and have improved upon.
Good points except I can't agree with this one. .
- Must be tutorable by Recruiter (check)
- Favorable casting cost (check)
- As a good beater (not really)
In the deck which contain so few cards that have low potency to put into graveyard (City of Traitor, LB, Magma Jet, and Blast), it's rare to find your graveyard hit the 7 number. .
If you really looking for a beater, I suggest for Shard Phoenix, Savage Firecat, or Tauren Mauler. .
n my baby says,"papa papa, u don't pay
"Tidal forces of the blood moon wrench and buckle the land, drawing monoliths of stone and soil toward the flaming orb"
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