[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[Bane of the Living]

No one will even try to play without Standstills? Really?

I honestly feel that the addition to goyf puts the deck in a position where it needs to make more adjustments than just Trops..

Now before you brush this notion off again here are the reasons Im making these changes to my version of the deck formally refered to as Dreadstill.

A) The late game is your enemy.

The backbone of this deck, and most blue based control decks, is Counterbalance. Counterbalance gets it's power by taking advantage of the low mana curve of legacy staples. When your counterbalance can protect your win conditions for 4 or even 2 turns that's when the deck is working at its best.

Ichorid can kill you turns 1-3 but indefinitely in the late game if your not running Crypts. They can therapy away your Force and Dread Return easily.

Stax style decks pile up the board with Chalice, Trinisphere, and big nasty enchantments and creatures such as Moat or Arc Slogger.

Goblins can chew you up and spit you out in the late game. Ringleaders refill the hand of goblins you managed to counter and you give them plenty of time to find Warren's Wierdings.

Dreadless-still style decks can out control you with bigger badder cards. Pushing through multiple Deeds and maintaining Crucible advanage.

B) This deck wants to win quickly.

Look at the design of this deck and tell me otherwise..

Daze takes advantage of people tapping out. People only tap out in the early game when they dont have extra lands. Counterbalance (see reason A) Force of Will buys you an extra turn, the one turn you might need to attack for half your opponents life. Force is better in the short game.

Goyf and Dreadnought kill quickly. Goyf in 4-5 turns unassisted. Nought in two. The ability to put a clock on combo is very important in this format. So important that decks like Dreadless-still play maindeck goyfs for a real clock. Why not support their aggression and take advantage of the short amount of turns you give your opponent to respond?

C) Land Destructon

The ability to literally stifle your opponents mana development not only supports the anti late game but gives your clocks the window they need to get in the red zone before answers can be played. I've won at least a quarter of my games due to Wastelanding, Dazing, and smashing to victory before my opponent even has perms out. Pulling Standstill for more counterspells and land destruction is the best move.

D) Mana Curve

This is important. Decks can fold to Chalice and Spell Snare all day if they dont spread out alittle. You can lose the game because you play the wrong card on your turn two. You have Daze and Wasteland in your deck which already make your two drop a turn late most of the time. Counterbalance or setting your clock are always more advantagous to the deck than being pacifistic.

I think this deck has the strength to stay in the healthy shape it's in as long as it's willing to move ahead of the format. It's proven itself as a major contender now and opponents now have experience against it. Removing Standstill and speeding up the deck while adding metagame slots is a good move.

Standstill and Factory had no overhelming synergy with the Dreadnought combo and removing the cards will actually effect your gameplan the least. Factory often caused mana issues and removing them opens a window to play Back to Basics, reveal more tension from Blood Moon, or splash a third color into the deck.

You would still leave the toolbox effects of Mage and keep your 3 drop for CB. You'd have room for the extra Tarmogoyf and Explosives your dying to play. You have room for meta slots like Crypt or Needle.

I push people to at least try this change, Ive been running with it and I like it alot.

[J.V.]

Bane I'll give the Standstill-less Dreadstill a try, I think more basics and Back To Basics could be really strong. I don't however feel that the deck necessarily wants to win quickly, I've had plenty of games go into the late game where I really never had any point that I felt that the deck was losing. Granted sometimes dropping a Nought on turn 2 and going balls to the wall is the right strategy, but I don't feel the deck should need to be winning quickly. Also on the note about Ichorid I really don't see peoples issue with the ichorid match up, I haven't lost a round to ichorid in months I really feel ichorid is one of the decks best match ups.

Here is the List I'm gonna start testing:
Lands:21
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
6 Island

Creatures:10
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Tarmogoyf
3 Trinket Mage

Noncreature Spells:29
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
3 Spell Snare
3 Daze
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Counterbalance
2 Trickbind
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle

Sideboard:15
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Firespout
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle

[Rood]

Removing Standstills from the deck defeats the entire purpose of what the decks trying to accomplish. You're not always out for balls to the walls victories, it's not what the decks designed to do. Going to late game most of the time is where I feel most comfortable with the deck. You may be happy with the loss of Standstills for a little while but eventually you will notice a lack of power the card brings to the table. Also taking out Factories means Landstill is going to eat you alive with their own Standstills - not a good call IMO. The deck is made to abuse the card, so why not abuse it? Also your mirror matchup seems significantly worse considering they have Factories and Standstills if they just stick one SS it's almost game.

Also @ Bane- Why fix what's not broken?

[J.V.]

Rodney has a good point, cutting Factory and Standstill does make you auto lose to Landstill, it also makes you have no way of regaining card advantage or recovering from heavy hand disruption.

[luka66_6]

cutting Factory and Standstill

It has crossed my mind. How about (look my deck list for refernece) cutting Standstills for 3x Meditate (it is the only card i think of that fills samr role good) and since you have fast clock it is no problem loosing one turn especialy with counter top outside. :) ) and one crypt, explosives, needle, bounce, land, itd. And replacing factorys with islands?

[Rood]

Rodney has a good point, cutting Factory and Standstill

~

Rodney has a good point, cutting Factory and Standstill does make you auto lose to Landstill, it also makes you have no way of regaining card advantage or recovering from heavy hand disruption.

You may want to finish that quote.

[luka66_6]

Sorry my bad. I have edited my previous quote the way i was meant to be.
Best thing i like about this deck is smashing face with something that makes gofy pathetic. :)
Now how about those Meditates...
Now do not get me wrong i like Standstills in this deck. I am just trowing ideas. :)
But i must say i do not like Standstills and Factories and Wastelands without Crucible in deck. It just doesnt feel right. (it is just a feeling I did won our turnament with this deck :) )

[HammafistRoob]

Bane,

If you think that this deck needs to win FAST, you should start by cutting all of the slow cards from the deck, Standstill, Counterbalance, Trinket Mage, Top, Wasteland, and Factory. Now you add more beaters right????

Seriously, go to the Dreadedfish Thread or create your own threaed if you want to cut all the aforementioned cards. Dreadstill was designed to be a control deck with the ability to just go turn2 "MyBadZorrZZ" and win.

The GREATEST thing about this deck is it is probably the most flexible deck in the format, it can win FAST, slow, splash this color or that color.

[Nihil Credo]

I'm staying on the Standstill-Factory-Wasteland side of the argument, too. If one is to deprive the deck of the ability to dominate under Standstill / gain +2 CA for 1U (the two are faces of the same coin), then I see no reason not to simply play Threshold. Without true card drawing, I'd rather invest one card in a four-turn clock than two cards in a two-turn clock, because I'll be much better off when that clock eats it to removal (which might even be Krosan Grip). Also, I'd find it hard to give up Back to Basics in the SB and the tons of matchups it improves.

[luka66_6]

How about loam as one off if deck stays without crucible. Wasteland and factories like reccuring.

[Illissius]

How about a build with Vision Charm and Tombstalker? Two fetchlands and a Charm makes for a Tombstalker on turn two. A 5/5 flyer isn't a 12/12 trampler, but it ain't shabby, either.

Something like this:

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tombstalker
4 Stifle
4 Vision Charm
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
4 Snuff Out
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp

Now this build is a whole lot more aggressive and less controllish than builds with Standstills and Countertop; it's closer to something like Eva Green. This is intentional.

[HammafistRoob]

It isn't Dreadstill, but it does look pretty good. Maybe you could throw CounterTop in the sideboard.

[Rood]

It isn't Dreadstill, but it does look pretty good. Maybe you could throw CounterTop in the sideboard.

Agreed, I think that would qualify for the Eva Green thread. To get back on track, I'm considering running Rack and Ruin in my board (Stax, Imperial Painter, Affinity, etc) it has a ton of uses. So my board looks something like this:

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [R] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [A] Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 [OV] Pyroclasm
SB: 2 [UL] Rack and Ruin
SB: 2 [DS] Echoing Truth

[luka66_6]

Is there agreed on "best" splash or version of deck or can we discuss different builds and different splashes inside this thread?

[Rood]

There isn't an agreed best splash build, results show green and white perform the best, but it really doesn't mean anything. I play red splash and I know alot of others do as well. It really just depends on your preference.

[HammafistRoob]

Is there agreed on "best" splash or version of deck or can we discuss different builds and different splashes inside this thread?

Yes inside this thread is fine.

[luka66_6]

Ok then. What do you think about life from the loam as 1-2 in splash. I belive that Wastelands and Factories need reccuring and with splash you do not even have to play crucible. Loam is one mana less and reccurable for itself but crucible is better with Academy Ruins for witch you lose source of blue mana. Maybe loam is better in splash.
Or deck can be without reccuring of any sort? Thoughts?

[J.V.]

I really like the idea of loam in Ug Dreadstill. I'll give it a try.

[Maagler]

So Ive been doing more testing with the white splash list (with enlightened tutors) and I found that hoofprints is an amazing card in this deck. Not only does it give you another win condition, it has great synergy with so many other cards in the deck. its good with: brainstorm, top, standstill. who else has been using this card?

[Clark Kant]

Yeah, Hoofprints is fairly strong in the deck. I like it a lot actually. It's just tough to make room for it as it's fighting with other great white cards like StP and Oblivion Stone and possibly Jotun Grunt for card space.

How about a build with Vision Charm and Tombstalker? Two fetchlands and a Charm makes for a Tombstalker on turn two. A 5/5 flyer isn't a 12/12 trampler, but it ain't shabby, either.

Something like this:

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Tombstalker
4 Stifle
4 Vision Charm
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Thoughtseize
4 Snuff Out
4 Wasteland
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Swamp

Now this build is a whole lot more aggressive and less controllish than builds with Standstills and Countertop; it's closer to something like Eva Green. This is intentional.

Wow, that looks pretty damn awesome. It's rather easy to cast Stalker without Vision Charm with all the other fast ways to fill the yard. But if you have Vision Charms to spare and no Dreadnoughts in sight. All three of Vision Charm's abilities have fantastic synergy with both Stalker and Dreadnought.

And I love the fact that you can phase out Dreadnought in response to StP or Oblivion Ring or any other removal or bounce spell to protect it.

Very well done.

You could honestly develop the list more and start a new thread. I would love to see it.

It's easy to fill the yard, so if your problem is lack of black sources, the third ability of Vision Charm comes in very handy too.

I've always felt that Tombstalker is a far more resilient and all around better threat than Goyf in the current meta. The reason for this is here. There are atleast 14 extremely commonly played spells that Goyf is poor versus that Tombstalker outright ignores and pretty much none that go the otherway around.

You could honestly replace Wasteland with Factories and replace some Ponder and a Daze with Standstill and end up with a very Dreadstill like deck.

I think Factories work really well since they serve as 3/3 blockers when needed, to deter Mongooses and such. And Standstill is clearly a very strong card combined with overpowered threats like Stalker or Dreadnought.