[Deck] Burn

[Dark_Cynic87]

On creatures, I think 4 is as few as you can run for the Ichorid matchup. They goldfish faster than you, and your removal power really lacks against Ichorids. Obviously you can keep their Narcomoebas off the table, but they will just use Ichorids for the combo. You can race Ichorid beats, but you can't beat the combo.

I prefer Fanatics over Maruaders.

[Hanni]

Here's a list I've been playing around with that has been very fun in testing:

R/u Blurn
Fetchland Burn

Lands (17)
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Volcanic Island
6 Mountain

Spells (43)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Street Wraith
4 Magma Jet
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
3 Price of Progress
2 Flame Rift
2 Flamebreak
4 Fireblast

(Sideboard (15)
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Stifle//Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Engineered Explosives
3 Tormod's Crypt

The cantrips allow me to only run the best burn spells. They take away from speed, a little, but add huge consistency. Brainstorm -> Lightning Bolt costs the same as Incinerate though, so oftentimes it doesn't feel any slower than normal. 12 cantrips + 4 scry cards add tremendous card quality for the deck, allowing it to outplay some otherwise difficult matchups. I actually 2-0'd Faerie Stompy with this deck on MWS (the first matchup I played with the deck), which was always a hard matchup for burn (whether or not FS is a relevant matchup, I don't know). The digging also makes postboard games better by getting sideboard answers faster.

The deck has been performing very well for me on MWS, though I haven't played with it alot.

My sideboard choices are aimed at answering Chalice, Counterbalance, graveyards, tokens (Zombie/EtW), and combo. The deck should easily be able to beat aggro and most control. REB and EE do a great job of answering Counterbalance most of the time, coming in for Street Wraith and a few burn spells (matchup dependant on what burn comes out).

I'm not a big fan of Shusher because it only works if it comes down first... if a Counterbalance is already in play, you probably won't resolve Shusher through it, where EE does. Even if it does come down first, it's extremely mana intensive when you could simply just REB the Counterbalance from coming into play. Shusher gets nailed easily by removal, regardless if they side removal out for game 2.

I prefer Crypt over Leyline since this deck cannot hardcast Leyline.

I'm testing right now whether I prefer Stifle or Pillar vs combo.

[PowrDragn]

Why is Street Wraith on this list?

[THEchubbymuffin]

Why is Street Wraith on this list?

which list are you talking about?

EDIT: street wraith is used for the free cycling ability. It thins your deck and replaces itself for 2 life, which would be great if you knew you were drawing a burn spell and not a land.

[Hanni]

Why is Street Wraith on this list?

Because it works well with the rest of the deck. What's your biggest criticism vs Street Wraith, consistency? My list has plenty of consistency. Street Wraith allows me to run the most efficient burn spells (in conjunction with the cantrips). It also has small synergy with my cantrips and Magma Jet. Between 8 fetchlands and 8 cantrips, the additional deck thinning doesn't hurt either.

[raharu]

Vexing Shusher can't be countered.

Straight from magiccards.info. That means spells or abilities. Just to clarify.

A actually like that deck a little bit, although I wonder why you wouldn't A) Paly Stifle against combo, as Pillar isn't that effective, B) run a split on blasts (although I'm aware that it's seriously not that important), and C) Play Mishra's Bauble or Manampophose in the Wraith slot because Manampophose fixes mana for your cantrips and the Bauble gives you possibly relevant information, where Wraith does neither.

[Sims]

I'm not a big fan of Shusher because it only works if it comes down first... if a Counterbalance is already in play, you probably won't resolve Shusher through it

My experience with Shusher comes more from Goyf Sligh and things with more critters, but this stands out to me..... How does Shusher not resolve through Counterbalance? First line of text in Shusher's box says "Vexing Shusher cannot be countered."

edit: beaten to the punch, as usual.

[PowrDragn]

The reason I ask is that you are simply using a card slot to get one space deeper in the deck during a game. The hope is that the next card is a burn spell.

So, why not just make Street Wraith 4x Burn Spell?

[redmage]

So, why not just make Street Wraith 4x Burn Spell?

Because Wizards hasn't printed enough "good" burn to fill out the deck. Too many of our "bolts", and our 4-for-2's, are subpar and/or conditional. Wraith allows you to run a virtual "56 card deck" which keeps your ratio of "good burn" higher.

[Clark Kant]

Hanni,

The best burn spells are what they are because they let you win fast, a turn 4 win consistently.

Running Brainstorm and Ponder to get to these best burn spells is counterproductive. You want to play a burn spell with every mana you use. Wasting your first turn playing Brainstorm rather than Lightning Bolt means you give your opponent one extra turn to combo out, resolve counterbalance, gain life or something else. Brainstorm does very little for this deck. For the most part, a lot of burn's spell are very similar and pretty interchangable, not many silver bullets to go and look for. If you really want to splash, splash white for lightning helix.

Street Wraith is fine, because he uses no mana to cantrip and thus doesn't slow your winning turn by one.

[Hanni]

First line of text in Shusher's box says "Vexing Shusher cannot be countered."

My bad, completely forgot that he himself cannot be countered.

Still, he can be the victim of removal and he's also mana intensive if you're using his ability for every burn spell you cast. EE also has multiple purposes, where Shusher is just an answer to Counterbalance (and Chalice).

Running Brainstorm and Ponder to get to these best burn spells is counterproductive. You want to play a burn spell with every mana you use. Wasting your first turn playing Brainstorm rather than Lightning Bolt means you give your opponent one extra turn to combo out, resolve counterbalance, gain life or something else. Brainstorm does very little for this deck. For the most part, a lot of burn's spell are very similar and pretty interchangable, not many silver bullets to go and look for. If you really want to splash, splash white for lightning helix.

I've won alot of games on turn 4 when leading off with turn 1 Brainstorm. The only times I've ever had problems with the cantrips is if I draw too many in the early game, which slows down my tempo. Otherwise, I've won a ton of games purely because of the cantrips.

I'm not sure how casting Brainstorm into the R for 3's is less mana efficient than casting 1R for 3's, but okay. Lightning Helix...? Who cares about lifegain and its still a 2cc for 3.

The cantrips add, what I think, is much needed consistency. Sometimes it slows the deck down a bit... but for the most part, I haven't felt much difference at all as far as being able to goldfish turn 4 consistently.

---

Again, this is just a fun version I've been testing. Is it the best? Obviously not. Have I been doing well with it? Yes, I have.

[Vetinari]

Wouldn't Manamorphose be better than SW? It's ability can be marginally useful at times (for EE or to get U) and you don't loose life (sometimes amounting to getting an extra turn).

[Joon]

Still, he can be the victim of removal and he's also mana intensive if you're using his ability for every burn spell you cast. EE also has multiple purposes, where Shusher is just an answer to Counterbalance (and Chalice).

Normally you use Shusher in response to their counter. If not, they counter the spell in response to the ability. So it won't make every spell you play more expensive - just the ones they try to counter. With Chalice you're obviously right, though.

EDIT: In addition to that people tend to board out Removal against Burn.

[Wallace]

I try to aim for the fastest Damage-Output, and for the biggest consistency.

Ummmm...duh?

My actual Deck looks like this:

I try to aim for the fastest Damage-Output, and for the biggest consistency.

I also want to ask if something important is missing in the Board...

3 Mogg Fanatic...

MfG YawG

If you are aiming for "fastest Damage-Output, and for the biggest consistency", then why are you running Mogg Fanatic? Fanatic wil do 1 maybe 2 damage for , burn really doesn't need to run a creature spell. Try running 4x Manamorphose and dropping the 3x Mogg Fanatic and 1x Flamebreak.

Your board is missing Vexing Shusher, here is the board I run:

4 Vexing Shusher
4 Pyroblast
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Shattering Spree

[PowrDragn]

Because Wizards hasn't printed enough "good" burn to fill out the deck. Too many of our "bolts", and our 4-for-2's, are subpar and/or conditional. Wraith allows you to run a virtual "56 card deck" which keeps your ratio of "good burn" higher.

Again, I may not be completely informed in the ways of playing the deck, so bear with me. I'm looking over several spells that seem like they would be more than acceptable:

Char
Flame Jet
Flame of the Blood Hand (meh)
Kindle
Flame Burst
Shard Volley
Flame Javelin
Sonic Burst/Sonic Seizure (meh)
volcanic Hammer

I can understand not wanting a couple of these, since they are aonly 2 for 2. But most of the others seem fine to me. But again, maybe my view is skewed in the wrong direction.

[Wallace]

Again, I may not be completely informed in the ways of playing the deck, so bear with me. I'm looking over several spells that seem like they would be more than acceptable:

...

I can understand not wanting a couple of these, since they are aonly 2 for 2. But most of the others seem fine to me. But again, maybe my view is skewed in the wrong direction.

Try this:

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike

4 Fireblast
4 Flame Rift
4 Flamebreak
4 Price of Progress
3 Magma Jet
2 Fork
4 Manamorphose

3 Barbarian Ring
16 Mountain

Sideboard:

4 Vexing Shusher
4 Pyroblast
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Shattering Spree

[Clark Kant]

No, Try this:

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
2 Spark Elemental

4 Fireblast
4 Flame Rift
4 Flamebreak
4 Price of Progress
4 Manamorphose
4 Street Wraith

0 Urza's Bauble
0 Mishra's Bauble
0 Shard Volley
0 Keldon Marauder

18 Mountain

Sideboard:

3 Pyroblast
4 Smash to Smithreens
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Vexing Shusher

[Wallace]

No, Try this:

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
4 Rift Bolt
4 Lava Spike
2 Spark Elemental

4 Fireblast
4 Flame Rift
4 Flamebreak
4 Price of Progress
4 Manamorphose
4 Street Wraith

0 Urza's Bauble
0 Mishra's Bauble
0 Shard Volley
0 Keldon Marauder

18 Mountain

Sideboard:

3 Pyroblast
4 Smash to Smithreens
4 Pyrostatic Pillar
4 Vexing Shusher

Spark Elemental, good luck with that... Have fun running 4 x Street Wraith and 4 x Flame Rift in the same deck...I do agree with:

0 Urza's Bauble
0 Mishra's Bauble
0 Shard Volley
0 Keldon Marauder

[Illissius]

The effect of Shusher is effectively to turn every counter they have into a Force Spike.

@ Hanni: Do you ever have trouble with not having a shuffle effect for your Brainstorm, given that you'll usually have to use your first fetchland to find a blue source to cast the Brainstorm with?

[Clark Kant]

Wallace, I'm confused as to why you're such a big fan of Fork. IF you manage to use it with Fireblast, it's basically a Flame Rift without lifeloss. But you won't get that combo together most games (believe me, I played Fork when not so many great burn spells and cantrips were available). So what then. It's unplayable unless you draw 3 lands, and even then, the best you can hope for is to Fork a Bolt turning Fork into a far more conditional incinerate.

And yes, I have rarely if ever had a problem with Spark Elemental as a 2 of. There is no reason a player would leave a creature untapped to block against burn. So just time the Spark Elemental any time your opponent is tapped out (roughly 70% of the turns in my experience) and you have yourself a Bolt.

Brainstorm + Ponder doesn't work well in burn imho. So you spend one extra mana to draw a lightning bolt one turn faster. Why not just play Incinerate if that's you're after. Without a fetchland, you'll be drawing back the same cards that you put back.

Many of the newer builds don't bother with Incinerate, because it's just not good enough.