[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[Citrus-God]

Nevi Disk is actually really good as a one or two of due to it's ability to dodge stifles in a thresh matchup, and it makes you mono white stax matchup better because you clear their whole board as opposed to one or 2 lock pieces.

Disk is only good if we started the game out with 40 life. Against Threshold, timing is extremely crucial because if a Disk resolves, you still have to take 8 damage, while compared to WoG, you can just wipe the board.

As far as the goblins matchup is concerned, when on the draw, I almost always take out at least 3 standstills due to their powerful turn 1 and twos. Aether vial, goblin lackey, and piledriver can all hurt your standstill, if not make it completely useless. You need the STP if they play a lackey to make your standstill have any merit, or the FOW for the Aether vial.

You can keep Standstills in only if you're boarding in Plagues or Circle of Protection: Red.

On the play though, I will only board out 2 standstills because they only have one turn to ruin your turn 2 standstill hand.

I believe you need alternative card draw for this. I say run Tops maindeck so Standstills dont look bad against Goblins.

What to bring in is completely dependent on what if at all you splash a third color, and what SB choices you make. I splash red and just pyroclasm them out of the game.

Splash Black for Extirpate which is good against Ichorid and Plague which is good against Goblins and Ichorid.

[freakish777]

With Konsultant's recent win with UWg Landstill, what are people's thoughts of taking cards like Humility & Wrath out for something like Tarmogoyf?

Something along the lines of:


//lands (24)
3 Tundra
3 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
3 Plains
3 Wasteland
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Academy Ruins

//Control (17)
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Krosan Grip
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

//Win conditions (6)
3 Decree of Justice
2 Eternal Dragon
4 Tarmogoyf

//Digging (10)
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Fact or Fiction


You'd essentially be playing a deck similar in spirit to It's the Fear or VoroshStill, just with a heavy concentration on White for rediculous win conditions like DoJ and Dragon. Granted you would be losing the power of cards like Wrath & Humility in exchange for the ability to change roles into the beatdown with cards like Goyf when the opportunity presents itself.

[Hanni]

Honestly, I think Humility is such a strong card against anything that runs aggro that it's better to just not run Tarmogoyf and simply run Humility. Very few decks actually win without aggro and Humility is a powerhouse since very few decks run answers to it maindeck.

Honestly, I think Landstill needs 4 Thoughtseize in the deck somewhere. The card is just so rediculously strong for the strategy of this deck and it improves almost every matchup. The ability to know what the opponent is playing on turn 1 of game 1 in a tournament is also invaluable.

[3duece]

Good point. I have been wondering lately why I don't maindeck extirpate as it comes in against almost every matchup, although it would be tough to fit four.

[Nihil Credo]

I have recently moved the humility to the board, as I am seeing less and less pure agro, and more and more agro control (both black and blue), which makes humility slightly less attractive, especially if they are only going to have 1-2 threats on board at a time... (why make them 1/1s, when you can just kill the crits?)

My, that's some backwards reasoning, isn't it? If they run fewer threats, then Humility becomes better, not worse, because they can't overwhelm you with lots of 1/1s. I have won through a Humility with Goblins several times; I don't remember that ever happening with Threshold.

[Nihil Credo]

So you say that "Humility sucks because Grip exists"? Whether that's true or not, it's unrelated to the point I was making (Humility gets better the fewer threats your opponent runs). Unless you meant that few creatures = Tarmogoyf = Grips in the board, which doesn't really apply since EVERYONE boards Grip these days anyway.

[Mister Agent]

Humility is one of the strongest reasons why landstill splashed white in the first place. If you are paranoid about 1/1 creatures causing you to lose games play more decree of justice. Even when your opponent boards in grips the disadvantage of that is minimal compared to the actual card advantage that humility provides.

[thefreakaccident]

I apologize for the nonsense I was posting earlier.... Humility is strong, as I had said countless times.

How has the Ajanis been doing in people's sideboards?


In theory it is good (gaining a continuous stream of life, and force them to redirect additional burn to kill him is all around strong).


I was not of clear mind earlier, so please just ignore what I was saying .

[torgar]

I think Ajani is too slow, too expensive and not effectual against a serious beatdown rush. If you want gradual life gain, I'd opt for Pulse because you can Wish for it. The sideboard is too tight as it is for Ajani. Just my opinion.

Another consideration- I might agree that Crucible isn't necessary in the main... I've been running one and I find in most matches if I'm abusing it, I'm winning already and I almost never use my first Wish to go E.Tutor>Crucible. The only MU I really want it is against control mirrors. I'm usually protective enough of my Mishra's as it is and using land drops for chump blockers isn't a winning strategy most times in early to mid stages.

I considered Shackles in that spot but the deck doesn't run enough Islands to consistently steal Goyfs.

Right now I've relegated my lone Crucible to the side (since it is powerful enough I want it in some MU) and replaced it with a Runed Halo. It's almost never dead and is tutorable as well. I don't know if removing Crucible justifies still running a single Wasteland main but I don't want to lose the option of taking out opposing Academy Ruins/Volrath's Strongholds. Perhaps maindecking a single Needle for Volrath's and randomness instead? Just some thoughts.

[Citrus-God]

How has the Ajanis been doing in people's sideboards?


In theory it is good (gaining a continuous stream of life, and force them to redirect additional burn to kill him is all around strong).

It makes huge tokens on Turn 5 which swings on Turn 6. I've beaten Aggro-Loam like that in testing before. The constant Life Gain is better than Pulse of the Fields because it doesnt require mana and you dont need to be losing to abuse it.

The pump is amazing. It makes cycling Decree for a stellar amount into something lethel, like cycling DoJ for 5. Now that can't be dangerous, until Ajani does his thing.

Another consideration- I might agree that Crucible isn't necessary in the main... I've been running one and I find in most matches if I'm abusing it, I'm winning already and I almost never use my first Wish to go E.Tutor>Crucible. The only MU I really want it is against control mirrors. I'm usually protective enough of my Mishra's as it is and using land drops for chump blockers isn't a winning strategy most times in early to mid stages.

The only time I have never found Crucible win-more is against Threshold, ITF, the mirror, and LftL decks.

Right now I've relegated my lone Crucible to the side (since it is powerful enough I want it in some MU) and replaced it with a Runed Halo. It's almost never dead and is tutorable as well. I don't know if removing Crucible justifies still running a single Wasteland main but I don't want to lose the option of taking out opposing Academy Ruins/Volrath's Strongholds. Perhaps maindecking a single Needle for Volrath's and randomness instead? Just some thoughts.

If you want to combat Stronghold/Academy Ruins, I recommend you run Dust Bowl. As for Crucible of Worlds, you can always board it in. You only ever need it against Control decks really. A maindeck Needle would work too, but to be honest, I think I'd rather have Sensei's Divining Top in that slot. This deck really lacks late game leverage at times and SDT helps fix some of it. Running SDT also permits you to abuse velocity.


@Freakish777: When you run Goyfs, you should really consider cutting DoJs from the deck. You're doing this because you lack decent control cards for the early-midgame and they dont synergize with Goyfs.

I built a spin-off of Operation Dumbo Drop using Goyfs, Vitu-Ghazi, and Garruk.


// Lands 23
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Vitu-Ghazi, the City Tree
4 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
4 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
2 Plains
2 Island


// Creatures 7
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Garruk Wildspeaker


// Spells 30
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Standstill
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wrath of God
3 Engineered Explosives


// Sideboard 15
4 Meddling Mage
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Runed Halo
2 Decree of Justice


The plan is to use Ghazi to produce tokens and protect Garruk until you can build up an assault of elephants, tokens, and Goyfs trampling over the opponent with Garruk's pump effect as the game stalls. This deck is extremely effective against Threshold and ITF in testing, but was terrible against Landstill unless it can resolve a Garruk, which can really win for you even if the opponent lands a Humility down. I might cut a Ponder and another card to fit in 2 Grips.

[Ranarion]

The only time I have never found Crucible win-more is against Threshold, ITF, the mirror, and LftL decks.

I don't know your meta but my meta is full of Threshold and similar decks. There are many decks which use Stifle + Wasteland and you have to face at least one LftL oder Eternal Garden. That's why I wouldn't cut the Crucible.

[Citrus-God]

I don't know your meta but my meta is full of Threshold and similar decks. There are many decks which use Stifle + Wasteland and you have to face at least one LftL oder Eternal Garden. That's why I wouldn't cut the Crucible.

Soo... we have an agreement? I always found Crucible good against Threshold, assuming I found a Wasteland.

[thefreakaccident]

@ Citrus god--

That list seems interesting, and the inclusion of ponder for that build makes a lot of sense... you might even be able to cut a land for something... I have never been an advocate for goyf in landstill, but for each his own, he is still solid.


Your build may have merit, and it is very creative... Kudos to you sir.

[freakish777]

@Freakish777: When you run Goyfs, you should really consider cutting DoJs from the deck. You're doing this because you lack decent control cards for the early-midgame and they dont synergize with Goyfs.

This doesn't make sense at all. The reason I'm suggesting Goyfs is to create a version that shifts the focus from not losing to actively winning. DoJ also wins games, hence keeping it and Dragons in. They have synergy in that they both reduce your opponent's life total. Additionally, DoJ + Goyf is useful in situations where your opponent has a two Goyfs down to your one. The attack, you cycle DoJ for 2, draw your card, take down a Goyf, and take no damage.

Against opposing control decks, you get to overload them with threats instead of drawing cards that only work when they play a threat of their own.

[Wargoos]

What's about Wake Thrasher in a non-G Version?
Allows you to still play b without weaken your Manabase

[Illissius]

Unlike Wake Thrasher, Tarmogoyf can also, you know, block.

[konsultant]

I run the Humility in the MD despite Krosan Grip being everywhere because it's usually in the SB and MD Humility steals games. Half the time if I expect Grip to come in I board out the Humility despite the fact that they are good because I just put 3 dead cards into my opponents deck. If they don't board in the Grips and I don't take out Humility it's usually game. I run Ajani instead of running Goyf's because it has far better synergy with Landstill and doe's the same thing as far as making the deck better at going aggro faster.

[Citrus-God]

This doesn't make sense at all. The reason I'm suggesting Goyfs is to create a version that shifts the focus from not losing to actively winning. DoJ also wins games, hence keeping it and Dragons in. They have synergy in that they both reduce your opponent's life total. Additionally, DoJ + Goyf is useful in situations where your opponent has a two Goyfs down to your one. The attack, you cycle DoJ for 2, draw your card, take down a Goyf, and take no damage.

Against opposing control decks, you get to overload them with threats instead of drawing cards that only work when they play a threat of their own.

I understand, but by not having cards that actually control the board, you're slowly turning the deck into Fish. I mean, look, you cut WoGs, which are fundamental to Legacy's approach to Landstill. WoG is how to wipe boards clean so you can play Standstill. If you're playing Standstill because you have threats in play, then it's more similar on the approach to that of Fish.

[torgar]

I'm personally not a fan of including Goyf in this deck. It goes against the theme of controlling the whole board, locking the game down and winning with DoJ.

The way I win most games is by gradually pecking away with Mishra's and finishing with some Soldier tokens... after I've established control. The entire rest of the deck is dedicated towards this purpose.

Along the same lines, I see how Ajani can produce quicker kills via DoJ tokens. I've been testing him and he's fun. However, I usually find myself being busier using all my resources to establish firm control instead of dropping a turn 4 Ajani and following up with a DoJ soon after.

I've felt comfortable with x3 DoJ x1 E. Dragon x4 Mishra's as my sole means of actually closing the game. Packing more threats shifts the deck's focus away from control which I think is it the deck's strongest point.

This is the list I've been running. I've decided I want the option of accessing both Crucible and SDT in main so it's 61 cards... :-P

//Board Control
x4 Swords to Plowshares
x3 Engineered Explosives
x2 Humility
x2 Wrath of God
x1 Nevinyrral's Disk

//Counter
x4 Force of Will
X4 Counterspell

//Draw
x4 Brainstorm
x4 Standstill
x3 Cunning Wish
x1 Sensei's Divining Top

//Kill
x3 Decree of Justice
x1 Eternal Dragon

//Fetchable Uber-lock
x1 Crucible of Worlds

//Lands
x4 Mishra's Factory
x1 Academy Ruins
x1 Wasteland
x1 Tolaria West

x2 Polluted Delta
x4 Flooded Strand
x4 Tundra
x1 Underground Sea
x1 Scrubland
x3 Island
x2 Plains


Sideboard

x1 Enlightened Tutor
x1 Return to Dust
x1 Slaughter Pact
x1 Blue Elemental Blast
x1 Pulse of the Fields
x3 Extirpate
x3 Meddling Mage
x4 Runed Halo


Seems pretty standard. I might opt for more basic lands.

[TheInfamousBearAssassin]

From a different thread, different deck, different forum, but still applicable;

Yeah, I would say that 4 kill conditions is too little. One of the conclusions that I came to playing at the PBG memorial tournament, after going 2-2-2 with MWC, is that decks that can't reasonably finish three games within 50 minutes inherently suck. Now, this is an observation that's been building over the years. Maybe it's a little obvious, but I've never heard it stated this forcefully before. These decks inherently suck. It's just math. Numbers average over time. If you play 1 game against a deck where you're 55% favored, you'll lose 45% of the time. If you play 3 games, however, you're- well, I'm not actually good at math, but it's considerably more. Theoretically, if you went to infinite games, you'd win every round assuming you were 50.01% favored. This means that on average, in an eight or nine round tournament, you're throwing away at least one round or more to draws that could've been wins. It's simply not worthwhile.

I'm not a fan of Tarmogoyf either, since it has zero resiliency, zero utility (doesn't have, say, Vigilance at least, so can't smash + block), and doesn't really take advantage of that late game mana. Sacred Mesa, however, seems to fit this deck fairly well, and doubles as a quasi Maze of Ith. It's also Wrath proof, if not Disk proof.

Also, in this deck, is Mishra's Factory really better than Vitu-Ghazi or Urza's Factory? The latter two wouldn't open you up to StP, and wouldn't suck against any form of creature removal and/or attackers without Crucible.