No idea, I'm wondering too. I asked on this thread before if anyone was playing Deadguy but no replies. Well, we can only hope, tho, i guess?
Originally Posted by GreenOne
I'm trying to make it work, but I have some difficulties with opposing creatures, and all in all, I feel that the deck is placed in a strange middle-position, where it has decent replies to a lot a stuff, but carries to weak threats it self (maybe tombstalker should be sideboarded in instead of Grunt?). The current list I'm testing is (in part to deal with mentioned problems):
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept
4 Bloodstained
3 Swamps
1 Plains
1 Volraths Stronghold
4 Dark Confidant
4 Jotun Grunt
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Thoughtseize
2 Duress
2 Extirpate
2 Cabal Therapy
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Senseis Divining Top
1 Cursed Scroll
4 Dark Ritual
SB:
3 Engineered Plague
2 Extirpate
4 Disenchant
3 Wrath of God (should be Damnation)
2 Tormod's Crypt
To all those who complain about weak threats, I have recommended, do recommend and will continue to recommend Exalted Angel. Just try it, it won't disappoint. I've posted many arguments why Exalted Angel is win, and even compared it to Tarmogoyf (those posts are earlier in this page, I think EDIT: oops, they're on the previous page).
Cursed Scroll, I think, personally, is a bad card. It's a bad answer and a bad threat. Firstly, a bad threat - because 2 damage a turn, for 3 mana, is not economical; and nor is it fast. Then it is a bad answer - 3 mana, kills one creature a turn, and that creature must even have toughness less than 2! Perhaps in the heyday of Goblins, as a late game answer, but I wouldn't run it in the era of Thresh. While it is resilient and hard to remove, it is painfully slow and cannot impact the board much - and even when it can, only against several decks which do not compose large majorities in a non random metagame (and even then, what deck now cannot easily remove an artifact between the main or the side?). Cursed Scroll, if run, I believe, should remain in the Sideboard, and also as more than a 1-off (for in matchups where you need it it's invaluable, so you want to draw them, but Sideboarded because in other matches it's utter crap).
On Tombstalker, no point keeping him in side. You'd hardly have a game where you wouldn't want him MDed. Perhaps less Grunts/Shades for 1 or 2 Stalkers?
Wrath of God is slow and clunky. I don't like it. And why only 3 Plagues without any way to tutor for them? Also, Tormod's Crypt is only a temporary answer, and in Black, the color of permanent graveyard answers, I wouldn't play it. Disenchant is also too narrow and too seldomly board impacting, I think.
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Scrubland
4 Swamps
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Plains
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Volrath's Stronghold
21 land
4 Dark confidant
3 Jotun Grunt
3 Hypnotic Specter
3 Nantuko Shade
2 Tombstalker
15 Creatures
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Vindicate
3 Smother
3 Dark Ritual
23 Spells
SB:
4 Engineered plague
3 Leyline of the Void
3 Extirpate
3 Diabolic Edict
2 Nevinyrral's Disk
This is my current list and has seen probably the most success (obviously geared a bit more heavily towards the aggro / aggro-control matchups like thresh). Obviously having both Stalker and grunt is a bit lacking of synergy but neither are four-ofs and I've been able to pull it off so far. Jitte is awesome :D
Tombstalker has also sometimes been spectral lynx which is a fun and reliable way to stack jitte counters at least as a blocker when board position isn't optimal.
Thoughts?
Depending on your meta I would not run any more than 2x Jotun Grunt in the main. Just a rule I have because when you draw the Grunt in multiples it is just a damn nightmare. I would go something along the lines of -1 Grunt -1 Smother and +2 Spectral Lynx. The Lynx is just one of my favorite creatures and unless there is a ton of Goblins in your meta would be a perfect fit in the deck.
If you're running 15 Creatures, why not play MoR?
Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?
If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
Lynx has too little impact on the board unless you draw Jitte, IMO. I wouldn't run it.
What creatures do you want to protect with MoR in that list? Nothing looks like it would be worthwhile enough, or fast enough, to accord another card to protect it (Perhaps Confidant, but by the time you set up Confidant after waiting for your MoR to become active, enjoy staring down a board full of Goyfs). And on it's own, MoR doesn't have much impact on the board. What're you going to cut for it, anyway?
A board full of 'Goyf isn't as bad as it would be without MoRs. It's just a really strong white creature that has synergy with the more creature-oriented lists. Personally I don't play BW agro-control without a playset, but I do see a problem fitting them in. Also, TS, Specter, Shade, and Confidant all look like they're worth protecting.
Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?
If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
Well, there are other better cards that could deal with a board full of Goyfs; my point was that keeping your creatures on the board aren't as relevant as answering the pressing problem of the Goyfs - MoR doesn't answer them, she only delays the inevitable. And keeping a Confidant around for a few more turns is only worth it if you can draw something worthwhile, Specter, only if you can discard something useful (or if there are even cards in their hand in the first place). Stalker doesn't adequately deal with problems, for all he is is a beater, and if he stays to block, he doesn't beat. And he doesn't kill Goyfs either. Shade I actually like, but then I would actually have to play Shade to use MoR.
My answer of choice to Goyfs or any other situation would be the self-contained answer of Exalted Angel, which doesn't require two cards to be effective; and my answer of choice to removal would be Volrath's Stronghold (and for that matter, discard ripping that removal out of their hands).
Right, right, and I like having MoR in addition to the two.
Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?
If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
My question is, actually, what would you cut for MoR? I can't find a slot worth putting it into.
That simply depends on what you feel is core to the deck. With 4x StP and 4x Vindicate I've never felt the need for Smother (on top of, in carnifex's list, 3x Edict in the side). Of course, I'm sure there are those that find it vital for some reason or another, just as there are those that don't leave home without 2x Damnation in the Side. It's a question of what non-vital card does what it does the worst, and can it be removed for what you want to put in. IMO, Smother does what it does the worst, so it can go for MoR, and perhaps another slot could be freed for the 4th MoR. Perhaps not. It's a matter of preference, I guess, and I'm inclined toward MoR.
EDIT: Just a side note, T1 Mother will make threshold's day miserable. That, or take a FoW. One of the two.
Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?
If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
Smother is a meta choice and the edicts in the board were a last second entry. Though I don't feel inclined towards MoR so much, and so even if I cut back on the removal I would hardly want to throw in more creatures. Also, vindicate is not necessarily creature removal and I often find myself targetting various other things, which leaves STP as the only strict creature removal, so I don't think the 3 smothers are overkill - though what is debatable is whether smother is the best I could have in that slot.
Here is the list I have been throwing around for about a month now, it works well against most decks in the current meta and doesn't have any really bad match ups.
4 Dark Confidant
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Hypnotic Specter
2 Jotun Grunt
4 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate
4 Dark Ritual
3 Bitterblossom
4 Scrubland
2 Bayou
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Volrath's Stronhold
1 Urborb, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
6 Swamp
Sideboard:
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Engineered Plague
3 Krosan Grip
2 Thoughtseize
2 Jotun Grunt
Team Fat Man & Little Boy
Has anyone been looking at Stillmoon Cavalier? He's immune to all removal except lighting bolt and can first strike goblins all day. He can also fly over threshold. He doesn't pump as well as Shade does, and costs more, but still, being essentially indestructible and blocking everything not named 'Goyf all day long has to be worth something (for three mana he kills mongoose first strikey style, also, enforcer can't block him)
Also, has anyone tried Batwing Brume in the board? Goblin players know, expect, and are used to dealing with plague. Not so much with a fog that zaps them for 10 life.
Exhausted angel is sooo good - I 2nd this statment. What would you rather draw off a topdeck? Cursed Scroll or angel?
What is MoR?
A few questions: firstly, you're playing green.........but substituting the almighty Tarmogoyf with the replacement of...Jotun Grunt? I fail to see the logic in that. The graveyards will be filled when playing Deadguy, anyway (or is it that you don't want to fetch too many lands?).
Secondly, why Bitterblossom? I tried it before, and without Jitte, it was really underwhelming. And with Jitte, it was too slow setting up. And really, one life a turn for a chump blocker a turn isn't really what I wish to be doing (as much as it slows down the opponent, it also puts a permanent clock on my life total (which regularly is only around 10-15 anyway). Perhaps with Angel it would be understandable (for the lifeloss can be made back), but else I wouldn't play it.
Also, no 4 Thoughtseize MD? I wouldn't leave home without those, frankly. Against too many decks do I need, or want, to take creatures out of opponents' hands. Not playing 4 is taking an unnecessary risk which causes your opponent to be more likely to destroy you with creatures, especially when you only have 4 real creature removal spells.
Stillmoon Cavalier may look almost immortal, but which slot does he go into? Confessedly, he is a clock which is rather hard to get rid of, but do we want that, especially one that is extremely slow/doesn't do enough on its own without little mana? Besides, it is not entirely accurate to say that only Lightning Bolt kills him. In red alone, Fanatic does too, as does Incinerator. In general, Engineered Explosives (which is rather widely played in control, and maybe some aggro control lists), and Pernicious Deed, just to name a few.
On Batwing Brume, a fog that deals damage is still a fog. Would we be able to damage goblins enough so much so that a Brume can kill them, or we can damage them enough after a Brume to kill them? In both cases, I believe my answer is no, for Goblins develops faster than we do; and when they have a board amassed enough to attack us with, we hardly have any way to deal damage in before dealing with the swarm.
(spelling corrected)
MoR is Mother of Runes. And, I'm glad that someone agrees with me on Angel, for once. To everyone else, it can't hurt to test Angel and see, can it? You may like it, methinks.
I like the idea of Angel, but i'm playing BWg and i'm little worry about the mana base - WW is really a lot :( I am heavy on black, so BB for a stalker is not a problem as WW for Angel could be.
I take it G is for Tarmogoyf? I hold, however, that Angel is miles better than Tarmogoyf, and switching to BW (with more emphasis of White instead of the Green) would thereby only lose you Krosan Grip (but would gain you Exalted Angel, and tons of other cards which cost more than one W (should you desire to play them).
Why miles better than Tarmogoyf? Because when both players have Tarmos, you get a ground stall. However when you have an Angel and the opponent has a Tarmo, you can deal damage in the air and he can't block it, and gain back the life so that you don't get damaged by his return attack. Therefore Tarmogoyfs can't stall up the ground when you have Angel.
Why not Stalker? Because Stalker lacks the lifegain, and thus when you're put on defensive, such as against Thresh, you can still attack with Angel, but not Stalker as you have to keep him back to block for fear of your life total being destroyed on the return attack.
Flyring, lifelink, 4/5 is amazing. I may be biased tho becaus I play against Stax a lot
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