[Deck] Dragon Stompy

[Wallace]

Currently, I'm doing a trail ballon with 2 Stone Rain in the slots that people are running Akroma in. I find Stone Rain more useful far more often. :)

He could in theory also sub in the Trinisphere slots, or the additional equipment slots.

You're only running 2 stone rains, wow... I really don't see how this can be of any benefit.

On to stone rain, Clark Kant; is a 'timewalk' as good as a threat?

New Sig.

[Clark Kant]

And why not? I explained what the card is there to do and how it functions for the deck.

You know Wallace. It might help if you actually put some explanation/meat into your posts.

These one sentence statements (and really, about 3/4th of your posts so far today have been one sentence or less) without any explanation or line of reasoning really don't contribute anything to the thread.

[The Wes]

Though I'm not sure, I would guess he was questioning the testing of it as a 2 of. Seems like it might be better to try it out a 4 of, because if you want to hit the basics they have and really slow them down, you want it early. It would be nice to be able to hit their one basic they were able to fetch.

[Wallace]

And why not? I explained what the card is there to do and how it functions for the deck.

You know Wallace. It might help if you actually put some explanation/meat into your posts.

These one sentence statements (and really, about 3/4th of your posts so far today have been one sentence or less) without any explanation or line of reasoning really don't contribute anything to the thread.

Though I'm not sure, I would guess he was questioning the testing of it as a 2 of. Seems like it might be better to try it out a 4 of, because if you want to hit the basics they have and really slow them down, you want it early. It would be nice to be able to hit their one basic they were able to fetch.

Better...

Sorry, I wish I could post all of what I thought of the idea but I would probably get a warning for flaming.

[Nihil Credo]

Stone Rain is not an inconceivable card. For one, many blue-based lists run only a few basic lands and rely on BEB/Explosives to fight off Moon effects; even though those matchups are already very solid, the deck is inconsistent enough that further improvements are relevant.

More importantly, I can see land destruction buying a crucial turn or two against a dreaded Wrath or Deed activation for 4-5. Granted, I also see it gloomily topdecked in the face of a drearily empty board, half-heartedly cast on a harmless one-of-a-half-dozen land, and then woefully followed by a joyous Standstill; still, the possibility of a blowout is tantalising.


That said, I'm concerned about its role in the aggro matchup - where 'aggro' is meant in the loosest possible sense, i.e. anything that can put up some board presence reasonably fast. I happen to be a fan of Taurean Mauler for precisely that reason, especially since 'aggro' is rarely an opponent you're very happy to sit in front of.
Pairing that up with the extra reason that Turn 1 threat, turn 2 land destruction is usually a lot more sexy than the opposite, I'd be inclined to try out Avalanche Riders before Stone Rain.

[Clark Kant]

Thank you Nihil. I'm not 100% sold on the card myself. But I do think it has several merits, enough to warrant some test slots.

Not a fan of Avalanche Riders. It doesn't fit the curve nearly as well, and often doesn't hit a land till a turn later.

Better...

Sorry, I wish I could post all of what I thought of the idea but I would probably get a warning for flaming.

An admission that you're incapable of putting together a rational well thoughtout argument...

I guess that's better than nothing.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Avalanche Riders? If you're after something to pick off random basics, he doubles as a threat.

[Clark Kant]

I'm skeptical that he's worth the additional mana cost and doubtful that you would really want to play the echo cost.

But I guess there's no harm in testing him too. So why not.

[pingveno]

I agree with Clark in the fact that stone rain looks better than avalanche riders. its one more mana for a magus sized body, and that is just the turn he comes into play, are you ever really going to pay the echo when you have larger fat in hand? Although I am still not sold on land destruction because I believe that there is already enough mana denial in the deck, stone rain would probably be the only choice.

[Citrus-God]

Wait... isn't the point of Moon effects to buy time so that you can just, you know, win? I don't think Moon effects are there to actually "lock" the opponent, but rather, buy you time to win before your opponent recovers. This is also why a threat in this slot would be much better than Stone Rain. Stone Rain contributes nothing to the deck's game plan because it needs to be used in conjunction with the Moon effect, whereas the threat can independently win on it's own or make use of the time the Moon effect bought for you. So in this case, Akroma would be better because it's a threat and it can win within a reasonable amount of time if Moon had resolved. Jittes and SoFI are different, because you need them to combat the bigger creatures in this format.

Akroma also evasive and has Pro Swords to Plowshares, which is awesome.

[Clark Kant]

And and you're usually not going to unmorph her till turn 6 or so if you get lucky. We all know how awesome that is. Yay.

[Sanguine Voyeur]

Yeah, and you're not going to unmorph her till turn 6 or so (and that's if you get really lucky). We all know how awesome that is. Yay.

Except with double lands, Moxen, monkeys, and Seething Song, six mana is very obtainable before turn six.

Even if you're lucky you can get her and her two friends swinging by turn two.

[Clark Kant]

Only one double land can be used for unmorphing her. It takes multiple acceleration spells and multiples turns to get her into play.

I don't know about you, but I prefer using my Seeting Song on Arc Slogger and company and SSG + Tomb on one of your other spells, than using up all that accleration just to play one threat that you already had to invest three mana in.

[Nihil Credo]

I don't know about you, but I prefer using my Seeting Song on Arc Slogger and company and SSG + Tomb on one of your other spells, than using up all that accleration just to play one threat that you already had to invest three mana in.

Actually, even when you have both Slogger and Akroma in hand, there are lots of decks against which an unmorphed Akroma is much more scary than any two other creatures in your deck, Slogger included. Pretty much anything relying on StP for removal, in fact.

[Joe_C]

not like it is along the lines of stone rain in the deck, but what about something like Grab the Reins in the sideboard? It can steal and sacrifice one of their creatures if you can entwine it, sac one of yours for the kill/remove bridge from below in an emergency... Imagine stealing and "flinging" a huge countryside crusher. Seems decent in a creature heavy meta

[deviant]

Stone Rain?!

Really?!

I couldn't force myself to reading every post about this so correct me if someone broke the card while I wasn't watching.

You do not want to try and "lock the opp. out of the game", you just want them to slow down so that they can't handle your threats. I don't think I've ever lost a game where my opponent has had to operate on 1 basic, so stoneraining it hardly would have made a difference.

The blowout someone so hardly craved is :
1st turn moon go,
mountain go,
fat go,
mountain go,
beat face, play a second fat go,
mountain go,
.
.
Get the picture? What here is not a blowout? What difference would it make if the opponent started with, say "plains, go"?
Even if they draw all four stops you should have threats to play. (unless you play 7 equipments like someone said)
If they can't do anything else than hope to topdeck a second plains to morph an Exalted, or to draw an island so they can Cunning Wish for a BEB you should be doing great. You know you should have more moon-effects than they can handle under topdeck-mode. And enough threats to end the game before they have time to.



You people, who want to kick a helpless child, should go and play Armageddon Stax.

Also: How the fuck can someone have 7 equipments AND some stone rains? I must have misunderstood something here.

[Wallace]

Also: How the fuck can someone have 7 equipments AND some stone rains? I must have misunderstood something here.

Stone Rain, your read it correctly, I have been trying to understand for 3 days now how stone rain would make this deck better. I finally added it and played about 10 games with it, 5 out of the 10 I wished it was a dude, 3 times it was just discarded to Raiders or for Imprint and the 2 games I cast it, it had no relevance on the game.

I mean I run no equipment and had a hard time fitting it in, Stone Rain is a waste of a slot IMO. The deck is better with a creature here, I mean with 6-8 moon effects MB do we really need another card that fucks with our opponents lands? Lets add Wasteland or Price of Progress while were at it.

[DrtyDozen13]

I thought about stone rain, then looked back in the tread to see if it had been tested before. The general consensus seemed to be that if your opponent only runs 1-3 basics (to fight through B2B and wastelock) they typically won't be able to play through an early moon, because they won't be able to fetch it (basically they will need to fetch it before the moon hits or be very lucky). So basically this is still a good match up. Plus most of the time when they get their basic you won't draw the rain and when they don't it will be a dead draw. As for decks that run lots of basics, blowing up one land won't really hurt as a moon doesn't lock their other land. So in the end your slightly improving an already good match up to weaken the deck as a whole. Against basics it's just a just a speed bump and is worthless after turns 1-3 (basically this is why 3sphere isn't run MD anymore). Although I do love the art on the Kamigawa stone rain.

I believe I already discounted this in one post immediately after the idea was brought up... again.

Really, you need to play in a combo heavy environment or one where Brainstorm, Ponder, StP, Daze, FoW, and Snuff Out run rampant.

As for this there is always Chalice and playing smart. (The quoted post is in reference to not playing 3sphere MD). Also it is still played in the SB so you can bring it in against those decks...

@Clark Kant: We know you hate Akroma, you can stop saying it now. Just don't put her in your build and when someone says they're playing Akroma pretend they said some creature you do like. That way we don't digress into that discussion again.

[Clark Kant]

Hey, what can I say.

Akroma ate my children and fed their remanents to my grandchildren.

So now I am on a personal life mission to eliminate Akroma from every concievable Dragon Stompy build I can find. An eye for an eye.

And now for my grand finale, my 1000th final post. :)

[pingveno]

Hey Clark,

What does your current list look like? My thinking is following up a moon affect with any threat is going to be better long term than stone rain. That doesnt mean than you should run akroma, more equipment, sulfur, etc. I guess I just was wondering what exactly you would cut from this list?

18 Land
- 4 Ancient Tomb
- 4 City of Traitors
- 10 Mountain

24 Creatures
- 4 SSG
- 4 Pit Dragon
- 4 Taurean Mauler
- 4 Arc-Slogger
- 4 Gathan Raiders
- 4 Magus of the Moon

18 Other Things
- 4 Chalice of the Void
- 4 Chrome Mox
- 4 Seething Song
- 4 Blood Moon
- 2 Jitte

Where does stone rain go?