If anyone is interested in a good goblin build, then simply look at the Top 16 decklists at the 1,000 Cash Legacy tournament that was held in Syracuse last month. The sideboard will change depending on your local meta, but I wouldn't change anything in the main deck list.
I wouldn't fool around with the deck too much, because if it works, why change it?
Let me know if you have specific questions/concerns about the deck.
~Shriek~
23 Lands:Originally Posted by nickrit2000
4 Mountain
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland
4 Badlands
4 Taiga
37 Spells and dudes:
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Mogg Fanatic
3 Goblin Piledriver
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Warren Weirding
2 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tin Street Hooligan
Sideboard (15):
2 Enginered Explosives
3 Krosan Grip
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Pyrokinesis
4 Chalice of the Void
there are 24 lands instead of 23 , i play 1 Gempalm Incinerator less
There should be only 3 Taigas, it was a misprint in the decklist. I run 23 land, but all the other cards are correct.
The only cards that are consistent in the sideboard are 2 Engineered Explosives, 3 krosan grips, 4 Chalice of the Void. The rest depends on your metagame.
~Shriek~
I support more warren weirdings than incinerators, warren weirding will always kill, and its just amazing in the format right now. Also, in my playtesting, try out thereapies or thoughtseizes mainboard. They are also very, very good. You could do without sharpshooter, a seige-gang, and a fanatic.
So you guys don't like Earwig Squad?! It's been GOLDEN for me. I think I'm gonna drop Therapies into the maindeck to coincide with them somehow. I beat storm combo a couple times with them. Hit both of their Tendrils with it turn 2 (Turn 1 lackey, turn 2 swing dropping in Warchief to play Squad for 1B). It's a long shot, but if I can get therapies squeezed in it should be even better. Therapies can hit clasms and what-not. Maybe they should just stay in the board...I'm really not sure what to do, but I know they help.
I'm sick of looking at Incinerators in my hand staring down a 3/3 Goose whose controller just 'Clasmed. I'm going for all Wierdings. I MIGHT save room for 1x Incinerator, but so far he has suxored.
Why would you run 4x Fanatic and only 3x Piledriver? That seems stupid to me. I'm relatively new to the deck, though, and would like to hear the argument that makes this a good choice.
Pce,
--DC
First of all, Mogg Fanatic is one of the better goblins that you actually want. I've won so many games with fanatic, I would never run less than 4. The piledrivers got cut to 3 with the addition of black to the deck. I had to make room for the 1 wort and 2 weirdings. Plus, piledriver is the weakest goblin in the deck, but still good enough to play but not a 4 of anymore.
Warren Wierding is good, but I still like incinerator b/c of the ability to kill a creature without having to worry about a counterspell or counterbalance. I could see the 3 weirding/2 incinerator spilit, but thats a metagame call.
I'm staying with the 1 sharpshooter and 1 tin street hooligan because they are amazing at times. Having 5 removal spells is more than enough and I can't justify cutting any cards in the main deck that I currently play for cabal therapy.
Your concern should not be with combo (storm), you just lose to it. Once in awhile you get lucky with your sideboard and win a match, but it is very rare.
Earwing Squad and Cabal Therapy in the main deck just sucks, don't run them. It could be okay in your local meta, but you will get steamrolled in a bigger legacy event b/c they are sub par cards to play.
I've played this deck for a long time and I know what works and what doesn't.
~Shriek~
I don't think comments like that are really helpful - i have also played this deck for a long time and feel that cabal therapies would be a nice addition to the main deck...
well that is a lie, but my point is that meta's dictate what you should and should not run in the main of any decklist. you can't just say "i know all about it and you know nothing, do what i say" - opinions, playstyles (to a degree) and metas are an important part of card choice decisions.
that was jus classic Kadaj just there - obviously this isn't an exact quote, but close enough -
"your list isn't mono blue control because it doesn't look exactly like my list - i would cut a, b and c to add x, y and z - that leaves you with a deck that looks just like mine, which is the true, ONLY version of mono blue control there is" - haha
(nothing but love for you really kadaj, i think the work you have put into MUC has been amazing, keep it up)
what was i talking about? oh i've completely lost track of my 'thoughts'
:note: played several games last night where rishadan port saved my backside on more than one occassion - i just cant see myself cutting any of them any time soon!
Has anyone ever tried running Rbw Gobs to any success? As in, you can basically run Swords and Warren Weirding for removal, basically allowing you to disable the majority threat...you get the Disenchants for trouble artifacts and enchantments, and still get the Therapies vs. combo. Also, Vindicate out the side would be hilariously awesome. Or is the Split Second on Grip that important that G is the more viable option than W?
Never been a Gobs player, just been doing to some research and this question came up. If Rbw Gobs is actually good maybe I'll start playing Gobs, always liked the little dudes.
The reason I state that I've not only played the deck for a very long time, but have also put up good results. A lot of people on the source don't understand why some things work in a particular deck and some don't. I'm not saying cabal therapy doesn't work well, but it should not be a main deck card in my opinion.
I could see the card in the sideboard and thats fine. Goblins is an aggro deck with should consist of creatures to bring your opponents life total to zero as quickly as possible. Cabal Therapy goes against this very principle, especially in a format where speed wins a lot of times.
In a three color goblin deck, I think rishadan port is just terrible because you need both green and black mana. By adding additional cards that produce colorless mana just leads to more instability with the deck. If I just ran a 2 color version, then I would play somewhere between 2-3 rishadan ports in the deck.
I would however play cabal therapy over Earwing Squad, that card should not even see the light of day in legacy goblins. Just terrible.
~Shriek~
I've been thinking about my manabase, and it seems that Ports would be nice. I've been thinking about something like:
-1x Taiga (I run 2, so I'd go down to a singleton)
-1x Wasteland (puts me down to 3)
+2x Rishadan Port
Is 2x enough? How many is optimal?
Can I at least have an explanation as to why Earwig Squad isn't good in your opinion, Nick?
Pce,
--DC
Wasteland is always going to be better than port...it's a much smaller mana investment, and they can still get off instants through Port. Port should function as additional wastelands if you play them, not as replacements.
I would not recommend cutting wasteland at all, its necessary to be a 4 of. If you really want want then I wouldn't play tin street main and you can go down to 2 taigas and 3 badlands for 2 ports. It just makes your mana base a little more shaky, more so after game 1.
Earwing Squad doesn't do enough for the 3 mana investment. A lot of times, you would rather be playing other goblins for 3 mana than Squad. Him being a 5/3 isn't enough in my opinion to consider playing him. Squad is not an reliable answer to combo and you have to have a creature deal damage in order to pay the prowl cost. It just seems to risky for me.
Some people don't like the 1 tin street or sharpshooter main, but they have been amazing at times and I would not cut them at all. It's very hard for me to cut anything in the deck for cards I don't really like in squad or therapy main deck.
Some people may agrue that they play sqaud and therapy b/c there is a lot of combo in your meta. If's thats the case, they I probably wouldn't want to play goblins b/c you can't consistenly beat combo and watering down the deck is not a good idea.
I hope this explanation helps.
~Shriek~
As a fellow Gobs player of a very long time, I've tested many decklists, and Nikrit, I agree with you to an extent. I don't believe Earwig Squad is a viable MB card, but I play one in the SB for MUs such as combo(and no, its not very useful with one in the SB for this MU), Threshold, and Enchantress/Solitaire. In my opinion, Threshold was and still is the most popular and consistent deck that there is, and is highly played in my meta. I play 4 mainboard Thoughtseize and 4 mainboard Warren Weirding because they fix this MU. I played in the GP Indy Side Event with over 100 players, and went 2-0 against Thresh (a UGW and a UGB build). Thoughtseize can discard a Goyf, and that is crucial. A tramogoyf with protection, i.e. counterspells or removal, beats Goblins single-handedly. They counter your key Gobs and turn it sideways for the win, simple as that. So, in my opinion, thoughtseize, or therapy, is a viable option for THESE reasons, not against combo.
Goblins needs an answer for Tarmogoyf, not just for thresh, but every other deck in the format. Thoughtseize/Therapy and Warren Weirding are the best ways that I know of for them to deal with them. Earwig Squad can help too but I am not a huge fan of him, but I have seem him be useful. If anyone can come up with a better answer for goyf, please let me know.
By the way, if you want a better combo matchup, run chalice in the SB. In fact, run chalice anyway since it is amazing against thresh too. I don't know why so many people are against this card, but it is everywhere in my meta.
There are better answers than Thoughtseize if your only concern is Goyf. You can play Snuff Out (out of CB range and free, so undazeable) or EE or Perish, or even smother/edict.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
Well, actually, my philosophy on thoughtseize is to run them mainboard when you don't know what your going to be playing against since it is a versatile and almost always useful card. Then, I board them out for more specific answers games 2 and 3 if I have them (in the case of Tarmogoyf, I have E. Explosives). I also leave them in against decks packing E. Plague (which is less nowadays) and pyroclasm, as I want as much to fight against those as possible, even if it means siding out a few goblins.
Also, I hope we have an agreement that Warren Weirding IS the best answer goblins has for goyf. Sure it pumps future goyfs, which sucks, but edict has always been good and now goblins has one that it can grab with matron (extremely important), goes into the hand with ringleader, costs one mana with warchief out, and can be recurred with Wort.
I don't know about the other cards you mentioned, but I could see smother taking thoughtseize's spot in a meta game dominated by aggro. I still prefer thoughtseize though.
The tech I'm about to show all of you may surprise you all. The approach I made with the deck is very simple; I want to bait until I can resolve a bomb. Of course, this only applies post-board. Right now, I am tampering with a build that enables this maindeck card. The maindeck card I am running is Price of Progress. I can't believe this has been overlooked; it wins so many games where you're destined to lose. I won games against Landstill, Thresh, Stax, Aggro Loam, 43 Land, and so many other things. I also believe this was why Boros Deck Wins Top 8ed at Worlds. This may also be why Julien Nuijten did well in the Legacy portion at Worlds, as well as why Jon Sonne almost went undefeated in his swiss rounds at GP Philly. We should rediscover this old tech and put it to good use.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
It's funny that you mention price of progress because I just recently discovered it and have been trying to convince people that it could be really good in goblins. It originally started as a way to win against 43-land, which was always nearly impossible. I then realized that it was good in many matchups. Against control decks, Vexing Shusher could help them resolve and win the game out of nowhere. I even considered it mainboard, but I don't know what I would take out, so it will probably stay in the sideboard. The problem against most decks (not 43-land though) is that they usually fetch basics because of wastelands anyway, and once they see Price of Progress, they will continue to grab them. It would still be funny to see opponents afraid to play dual lands game 3 after boarding Price of Progress back out.
I was playing PoP back in the days when MonoRed Gobbos was good. It was great in fightning control and 2x plague. However, isn't doing it too much dmg to ourselves in 3c builds?
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
Yes, but if they fetch out basics, then they're falling into Rishadan Port mana screwing them. I recall this happening in many accounts against RGb SA. If they choose to fetch non-basics early, they risk being within PoP range. Also, if decks like Thresh, Landstill, and other random decks begin to start fetching out basics early, then they'll eventually draw into TONS of non-basic lands and from there they either elect playing them to operate flexibly or they risk being within PoP range. Also, if they see it Game 1, you have probably won and you can make plays where you can draw a game against them/win and continue to do the same game 3.
@GreenOne: Why would you go 3c? You could still remain as 1-2 colors because that way when you do fetch out basics, you really dont need duals until you have to cast something like Grip if you're running Green or Wort/Weirding if you're running Black. Also, intentionally playing PoP just to create a suicide situation just to draw with the opponent as you're about to lose is tech. If you won game 1, you can attempt to do this Games 2 and 3.
ICBE - We're totally the coolest Anti-Thesis ever.
"The Citrus-God just had a Citrus-Supernova... in your mouth."
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