Quite honestly, I think it is. It blows up Nimble Mongeese, Goblin Piledrivers or anything pro blue, wrecks Affinity, blasts Warren tokens, and Bridge tokens, can be used to blow up Chrome Moxen and Mox Diamonds, Aether Vials, etc. It's a good answer to a lot of things (Namely pro-blue, and quick Goblin-looking things.) that the deck has trouble answering otherwise.Originally Posted by wmagzoo7
makes sense to me. I was trying out keg in the board but yeah it is good at killing the little stuff in the turns before your counters come online. I guess I will have to try to fit cryptic in another spot because I didn't realize how good keg is.
Don't forget it blows up manlands too. Keg for 0 or 1 is huge in almost every game. I actually played a mirror match and set it at 5 to blow up his Morphling when (and if) it came down. I tweaked the deck to only run 3 right now and I feel like I regret it every time I play.
End of turn...Morphling
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE
On a side note, I was a hater of Rainbow Efreet on some of my previous posts, but I finally recognize its importance. It should be talked about in the same respect as Morphling and Meloku. For everyone who was like me and does not believe Rainbow Efreet is awesome, I urge you to seriously give it a try - it will rock your world.
End of turn...Morphling
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE
Powder Keg only blows up artifacts and creatures - enchantments are left untouched. In other words, your only 3cc permanent that is affected by the kegs is Vedalken Shackles. That's only 2 (3? 4?) out of 60 cards. Your game-breaking Propagandas and Back to Basics will still be on the table when the dust settles.
what do you think of this deck:
Plain control+
2 sensei
3 counterbalance
4 painter's servant
2 fabricate
4 trinket mage
2 grindstone
this im thinking about:
[3 ancient tombs]
[1 academy ruins]
Honest question. Has splash green for goyf been brought up. It makes alot of the aformentioned mus VERY good (goblins being one of them) as oposed to being so so.
I c h o r i d - my anti blue
Manaless Ichorid- At least its cheeper than standard.
We admit for the sake of the exercise that following is true:
Landstill > Fromat
Non-Basic Hate > Landstill
Basics > Non-Basic Hate
We can therefore logically conlude that
Basics > Format
How so? Since we're talking theoretics...
Splashing green for Tarmogoyf defeats the purpose of Back to Basics. How is Tarmogoyf any better than MD Propaganda and SB BEBs/Hydros?
Disregarding those cards, how do we get Tarmogoyf big enough to stall Goblins? I can't speak for everyone else's build, but mine runs 0 fetchlands and 0 Brainstorm/Impulse; how can I use Goyf to significantly stall Goblins, and be safe from Incinerator/Weirding?
Agree on all points ^^
The day MUC splashes blue just to play Tarmogoyf is the day that I will agree that Tarmogoyf deserves to be banned from the format.
It has no evasion, no ability to pump itself, can be chumped all day long, and is off color.
Why not just play Wake Thrasher. If you want a Goyf type beater, it's atleast on color.
Deep-Sea Kraken fits better than Goyf here...
Don't worry about that. MUC already splashes blue for Powder Keg.
the day that tarmogoyf will be banned from the format will be late anyway.
@ Kadaj:
I am testing MUC for several months (as far as I remember I started during March) and I've fallen in love with the permanent based lists. I am of the opinion that 57 cards are fixed and should not be changed:
// Lands
24 Island
// Creatures
1 Rainbow Efreet
2 Morphling
// Spells
4 Powder Keg
2 Vedalken Shackles
4 Propaganda
4 Back to Basics
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Ancestral Vision
The three open slots really rack my brains. I am not sold on Foil, as there is little to no Fastcombo or Goblins floating around in my area.
While I tested Impulse, Think Twice, Ophidian (yeah, I know), a combination of 2 Jace Beleren and an additional Island convinced me. Jace is a house against Landstill (important metagame factor) and lands aren't that bad, either:
// Lands
25 Island
// Creatures
1 Rainbow Efreet
2 Morphling
2 Jace Beleren
// Spells
4 Powder Keg
2 Vedalken Shackles
4 Propaganda
4 Back to Basics
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Ancestral Vision
I am pretty much of the same mind. The slot that is Foil in my published list is really the only slot I consider "loose". The rest of the deck has been tested ad nauseum, by myself and other people, and I'm more or less positive that those choices are as solid as they get. As far as what can actually go in the Foil slot, Jace Beleren might very well be good, as could be the 25th land. I would perhaps try a counterspell of some sort in that slot, but I don't think Jace is necessarily a bad choice given the metagame you've outlined.
Some suggestions regarding the three loose slots:
3 Ponder - Two cantrips substitute one land, so you're virtually playing more than 25 Islands. Along with 4 Ancestral Visions, you've got 7 1st turn drops.
3 Sensei's Divining Top - Like Ponder, but way more sustainable.
2 Dust Bowl + 1 whatever - I don't know whether Dust Bowl is needed or not, but it is another out against Landstill. Winmore? Obviously.
2 Spell Snare, 1 Island - I am not sold on playing that much counterspells without any library manipulation. But that's just me and my experience with Solidarity respectively.
Last edited by Shimster; 09-01-2008 at 05:29 PM.
You could try Mana Leak in the three spots. Often they will be a hard counter, and if they aren't, they will destroy a deck with either B2B being in play or the threat of B2B coming down on your next turn because usually the opponent will need to tap 3 nonbasic lands to allow the spell to go through.
End of turn...Morphling
Team OMRIAIGTWYFEWARTCAE
I think its important to run a counterspell in the foil slot, becouse if it gets taken up by some business spell that would mean that the deck wouly only be running 8 counters total (4 counterspell, 4 FoW).
Personally Ive tried Mana Leak, but have switched to Dissipate. Sure, costs 1 more, but its hard and can screw with overconfident decks that dont care if their stuff goes to the yard (loam, welder, ichorid ect).
Is Fact or Fiction really an absolute 4 of? I think 3 Fact or Fiction work just fine. 3 Powder Keg should also be fine.
As for the open slots, here are other possibilitiess that no one has brought up yet...
1-2 Capsize - It's nice playing some bounce to deal with any threats that slip through and annoy you. Capsize has the bonus of being usable ad nauseum.
Negate/Mana Leak - I am really not as to which is the superior of the two, but both are solid counters.
1cc card that counters spells with 2cc.
Silent Arbiter/Overbeing of Myth - The first is a great way to stabilize against horde decks once Propaganda's effect wears of int he late game. The second is a solid blocker that's also a Phyrexian Arena.
Control Magic/Sower of Temptation - all around solid in an aggro meta
a 3rd Veldalken Shackles - It's still good against any nongoyf creatures and even Goyfs that show up in the mid game or later.
Yes, Fact or Fiction is an absolute 4 of. They get better and better the more of them in your deck you have, as chaining Facts is just stupid, and will win you the game unless the matchup you're in is just hopeless, or something to that effect. I had a post earlier in the thread which explained the reasoning behind FoF needing to be a 4 of, I'll see if I can find it.
Powder Keg is too good against just about anything and everything not to be a 4 of. It's our early-game defense against Aggro, it kills Mongeese against Thresh, is ridiculous against Affinity, and so on and so forth. It's too versatile and overall strong not to run as a 4 of, especially when it's even solid against control, like Landstill.
As far as the open slots go, I'm fiddling with a 25th land and 2 Spell Snares, along with a few other less standard configurations, and when I know more I'll share my findings here.
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