Is there any real reason to run Akroma (either color) over SSS? SSS it's just an unstopable beating, whereas it's easier to kill both of the Akromas, and the commonly played white Akroma dies to the most prevalent removal in the game.
Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?
If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
Originally Posted by Nihil
I have been thinking about the Tyrant question alot and to a lesser extent the Akroma argument. It seems like Tyrant is highly abnormal for this deck with the way it is designed to win but what if.... what if instead of running exhume we run animate dead and dance of the dead... then all we have to do is bounce the echanment when they try to off the tyrant... it essentially turns all of our spells into avoid fates...
As for the Akroma question I would say it is a meta call. If you see alot of white then by all means switch for SSS however if you do not then Akroma is better. She can survive more then SSS and has haste...
Let it be known that if we went with the tyrant idea there would be some serius retooling needed. Although I just realized that with that version you could really abuse certain critters like B-Kite and Sundering...
Except that you lose at least a turn doing that. Run SSS already.
Keep moon-walking.
As I said the list would have to be seriusly retooled... possibly even an entirely new deck. I was more refering to merely the Tyrant being reanimated... not automatically in this deck. You could run it in some rather off kilter trinket box deck for even more annoying games. let it be noted that I didn't suggest it just that it is a theoretical possibility.
If you'd run the deck that way, you'd not be able to run Akroma, Angel of Wrath, because she has pro-black. Seems like a big sacrifice, although you could replace her with SSS
This message has been deleted by Nightmare. Reason: Boo fucking hoo
Well the power of a Tyrant is that it can effect the board state. If you have a slow start and your opponent gets some beats, a Tyrant can come in and bounce your opponent's board and keep them on one land. That's why my list plays Lotus Petal, Brainstorm, Ponder, Thoughtseize and Repeal. Older versions also played Cunning Wish>Brain Freeze just like Vintage Oath decks, but that was to clunky without real moxen and such.
Anyway the list isn't the most optimal Reanimator list I just wanted to create a list, without the Toolbox and alot of 1-off's with only 4 cards to fetch them.
I don't like SSS to much in a deck, that can defend its creature pre-board. Post board it is nice to have against decks that can bring in alot against creatures.
BB
Or you could drop a Hellkite and sweep their board, or, you know, just fucking KILL THEM ALREADY. Also, a flying, trampling 6/6 has an absurd board presence, i.e. it can affect the board state by just being there. Nothing special, just it's colossal size and infuriating resilience. ofc, if you would rather play cute tricks I presume to each his own.
What deck actually bring in creature hate post board? Most, if not all decks, play all their removal in the MD. On that note, why wouldn't you want to play SSS? It's incredibly resilient (shroud > Pro: red + black), only a turn slower, can be returned with all of your reanimation spells, and just generally eats most decks because they can't remove is short of a WoG. On that note, if someone WoG's a board consisting of SSS, I'd laugh.
Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?
If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
I had that happen to me (Turn 5) but i had 2 exhumes in hand
Alright, can anyone tell me a possible weakness for this deck? I haven't extensively tested it yet, but im thinking its a decent set-up
Code:// Lands 5 [4E] Swamp (2) 1 [UG] Island 4 [U] Underground Sea 2 [6E] Underground River 4 [ON] Polluted Delta 3 [ON] Bloodstained Mire // Creatures 4 [LRW] Oona's Prowler 4 [TO] Putrid Imp 2 [DS] Sundering Titan 4 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite 4 [DIS] Simic Sky Swallower // Spells 4 [OD] Careful Study 4 [FNM] Brainstorm 3 [6E] Mystical Tutor 4 [FNM] Reanimate 1 [U] Animate Dead 4 [US] Exhume 3 [FD] Engineered Explosives // Sideboard SB: 2 [7E] Engineered Plague SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void SB: 4 [SC] Stifle SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives SB: 4 [DS] Echoing Truth
I am curious, have there been any new and exciting updates to this deck? I have looked back in the threads and I haven't read anything about Hellkite Overlord, that card is phenomenal, should it be included in this deck?
@rodgon666: Has you decklist changed at all since your last post?
Tidespout Tyrant: I think this card is just a toy. It is a total win more card, you could bounce your own guys and protect them but then you have a fatty in your hand. I never liked Tyrant in this deck.
Hellkite Overlord: He's big and does a lot of damage fast but just like every other creature dies to StP. He is rarelt faster than an Akroma assuming your opponent hasn't fetched or been hit by Putrid Imp. 6+6+6+6=24 8+8+8=24, he's a turn faster but that is conditional.
rodgon666: He hasn't showed up to our local tourney in months so I'm assuming he's taking a hiatus as he still has Team Funks Underground Seas. Not happy about that. Rod will prolly toy with Overlord but end up keeping it the same.
Mrwiggles: I would replace the 3 Mystical Tutors for Intuition usually Intuition for 3 Bogardan Hellkites is usually GG and I would rarely want to Mystical Tutor for a reanimate. Intuition is more dynamic.
This is my Signature
Ya but intuition is alot slower. I use to always run it in this deck and i never once used it.
The only problem this deck has is gettin a big creature out turn 2. Hopefully adding in a fetch as well as milling the deck will speed up the process
Well if you're planning on getting a turn 2 fatty you're going to have to go about it as a combo deck. What's the percentage of getting a creature and discard outlet in your hand while getting two mana? That's 4 cards you need out of 8 with no mulls. I don't really feel like getting into percentages but the deck wasn't to deal with that. It wants to be an aggro deck that can occasionally combo off. I prefer the latter any day.
This is my Signature
I'm newbie at The Source, and I'm french so be patient ;-)
I was waiting for this thead to reopen because I'm testing my own list since 2 months, and I based my build on your notes.
my list :
// Lands : 19
5 [4E] Swamp
5 [UG] Island
4 [u] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
// Creatures : 16
2 [LRW] Oona's Prowler
4 [TO] Putrid Imp
2 [ons] Akroma, angel of wrath
2 [TSP] Bogardan Hellkite
2 [DIS] Simic Sky Swallower
4 [SHM] Woodfall Primus
// Spells : 25
4 [OD] Careful Study
4 [FNM] Brainstorm
4 [jgt] Cabal Therapy
2 [LRW] Ponder
4 [FNM] Reanimate
3 [u] Animate Dead
4 [US] Exhume
// Sideboard : 13 +2
SB: 1 [jgt]Nishoba Phantom
SB: 1 [ds] Sundering titan
SB: 3 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 3 [SC] Stifle
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 3 [DS] Echoing Truth
SB: 2 (? ? ? ? ?)
I consistantly put a turn 3 "steak".
I just want to enlight the main difference in my list, compared to previous ones:
WOODFALL PRIMUS
CABAL THERAPY
imo, Primus is the best thing in this deck, it's amazing in legacy and combined with cabal it's awsome.
Also Cabal is now pretty good main deck, because so many opponents play Tarmogoyf ... reanimate an opponent's goyf is pretty nice.
Chado
Last edited by chado; 09-10-2008 at 03:21 PM. Reason: typo
It's cool that you added in primus but you HAVE to run 4x SSS and Hellkites, because (more or less) when you get one out its a auto wincon
@ Wiggles: I really disagree with that Wiggles... (I am the guy you tested with over MWS that thought you were a sourcer FYI) I Would personally run SSS in the board for game two and only IF your opponent is playing white. Otherwise Akroma is alot more influential on the game state then SSS. Also I would recomend 2 or 3 Hellkites main decked unless your meta is overrun with decks like Goblins or Affinity. It is in those two matchups where the power of Hellkite shines. The 2 or 3 is dependent on the meta and if you run Intuition in the deck or not and also if how many Phantom Nishobas you run (A personal favorite in this deck).
@ Chado: I was wondering about your use of the Primus. What function do you typically see it performing? With its inability to off creatures I fail to see any real benefit. If you want the targeted destruction I'd opt for AOD... If you want the multiple land destroys I'd opt for titan and if you want the persist why not (NO joke) run thunderblust (I think that is the red dudes name).
about big game faties :
Akroma : very good vs agro (gobs, sligh, ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh noW, etc.), not afraid of Terminate
Hellkite : poor vs control and ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh
SSS : control killer
Primus : very good in all cases, doesn't die on Warren Weirding / diabolic edict effects
Primus can persist and ruin opponent's strategy thanks to it's comeintoplay ability (chalice, lands, vial, top, counterbalance, etc.).
Primus is versatile, and can combine with Cabal for quasi-autowins.
All listed beaters of this entire thread are very good, but in the end, it's a metagame choice : example , not much StP are played in my local meta, so SSS is only in *2.
Last edited by chado; 09-10-2008 at 05:00 PM. Reason: precision
In case no-one has noticed SSS is essentially the best creature in the deck. People keep trying to insinuate that it's a metagame call and that Akroma is better 85% of the time, but it's more like 30%. Handling Akroma might be somewhat difficut, but handling SSS is not going to happen ever. If you're going to imply that agro or agro-control is going to race a 6/6, I somewhat doubt it. Is it possible with Tarmogoyf in the format? Yeah. Is it going to happen often? No. Also, with Repeals (which I find really strong) you have a much easier time dealing with said racing, and SSS's shroud means that they won't be bouncing/ removing it... ever.
Team Battletoadz: Fuck the Meta-police?
If it's all in our heads, it's best that we don't loose them.
Yea, i mean the only way your going to get SSS off the board is WoG, Damnation or Chainers (obviously those arent the only ways but the more common)
The way people are going to use WoG and Damnation are from wishes so you know its coming, and chainers is usually useless with an imp or oonas on the board
Your only going to see a goyf get to a 5/6 each match so it kills then lives
Akroma still cant be targeted by animate dead, so your only chance is exhume and reanimate. Usually when you reanimate a akroma the first that that happens is STP and thats with every meta.
How is akroma good against gobs (white splash in my meta = STP), thresh = auto STP or counter in every case i dont even know how you would mention that.
I mean, we've been arguing this for many pages now, and everyone is just saying how akroma is the only chance this deck has, and that's just plain wrong. Arkoma doesn't even really have a place in this deck anymore. But, if people are running it and winning, more power to you whatever works
I have been a huge reanimator fan for years. Nothing makes me giggle more then dropping an early fatty and watching it tear ass.
I was at a small legacy tourney last weekend (4 rounds) where I finished third, I ran rod's list except I was missing the 3rd titan and put Garza Zol in its place, and therapies in place of defence grids. I want to preface this that every deck I played was max 2 colours (Yes I'm Canadian), so titan was tremendously disappointing
Match 1 opposition with wizards
Game 1: I get a turn 2 SSS and ride it all the way
Game 2: Turn 1 him I forget
me, turn 1 imp, pitch a SSS,
turn 2 him, he taps out for some blue wizzy, On my turn I pitch a thepery to imp, sac it name force, and wiff, he has no counter magic, exhume another SSS FTW. He had sided in wogs but he wiffed on digging for one.
Match 2 Eva green
Game 1 drops an SSS turn 2 and ride it.
Game 2 He mulls to 5 with 1 land. I keep my 7
Turn 1 is swamp, rit, Hymn get get a land and an exhume. I am thankfull as I have another exhume in hand (no fatty unfortunately) but 3 carefull study.
I study (no fatty).
Turn 2 him nothing, me drop a prowler
Turn 3 him squat again, me pitch garza reanimate that badboy and ride it. He killed my prowler, and its a good thing he couldnt find an edict (which he sided in). The extra card drawing from it was unimpressive
Match 3: Dragon Stompy
(Here is the sad part I lend my friend this deck, and it just pillages me. Mind you it won the tourney. It went to Town on me.
Game 1: He wins the roll, 1st turn trinasphere, He then gets an quick hellbent dragon vs a animate SSS = GG
Game 2: more roshamboing he drops a second turn chalice @ 2, and I have 2 exhumes and a reanimate with a prowler, I prolly kept a hand I should not have
Match 4 Belcher
Game 1: I win the roll I get a turn 2 SSS, he goes off turn 4 ( i die)
Game 2: I mull to 5 with no stiffle but lots of dig. He goes off and kills me turn 2
As I said earlier Titan was a huge disappointment and in almost all cases a disappointment. I much would have rather scene either something to smoke chalice or a huge fatty like hellkite overlord or nishoba. Additionally braingorgers was disappointing, As rod said vs control/landstill its a champ. But vs agro/combo is a waste of cards.
Regardless of my results of this deck is still great
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