[OLD] UGw Threshold

[Whit3 Ghost]

Because a lot of 5c discussion has gone down a few pages back, I figured I might as well share my thoughts on the deck. I decided to play it in the MTG Salvation Online tournament because I had some amount of experience in playing it in test games. So far, I've 1-2ed both Control Slaver and 4c Agro Loam and beat TES 2-1. Here are my issues with the deck

• Yixlid Jailer is fucking awful. Both matches I lost were due to him not being Tormod's Crypt.
• My draws were bad. Really bad. I got manascrewed off of a mull to 6 game 3 against agro loam and he proceeded to draw 3 Tarmogoyfs and a Swords to Plowshares. He also managed to draw both his Blood Moons in his opening hand with mana to cast them game 2. Against Control Slaver I couldn't find a 2cc card to counter his Explosives both before and after a fetchland.
• I hate how this deck has no way to stop recursion outside of Jailer and Countertop. Ruins + EE wrecks you.
• Lands are an issue as well. With no Stifles or Wastelands, the effects of lands can be a serious issue.
• Pyroclasm. Seriously, that card has been absolute dreck for me every time I've ran it. It should be cut down to 2 for more Blue Blasts.
• Blue Blasts: They are awesome and should be a 4 of in the board.
• I did not have a keepable hand with a Counterbalance in it. Just figured I'd mention.
• This deck is bad at going Agro, which sometimes has to happen due to mulligens.
• The manabase is fine, surprisingly. I don't think I got colorscrewed once.
• Enforcer has not earned his slot yet. Honestly, I'd like to expirament with Vindicate, O-Ring or Grip in that slot. 6 maindecked removal spells sounds really good, especially with this deck running infinite draw spells to find threats.

I think that's everything.

[Obfuscate Freely]

You have to build your own sideboard, as with any deck. Yixlid Jailer was in our board because it's the most effective card against Ichorid. If that isn't a top priority for you, cut the card for something else.

I'm not sure what you mean about lands being an issue, but I assume it's a minor point. It isn't as if every deck has to play Wasteland.

Pyroclasm being "dreck" is kind of bizarre. If that's true, why do you want to run even two? Perhaps you don't see Goblins or Ichorid often enough to justify the card.

What makes the deck "bad at going aggro?"

I am always confused by people's lack of enthusiasm for Mystic Enforcer. It's such a fantastic trump card for lots of board situations (much moreso than pinpoint removal like Vindicate or O Ring). The card has won me so many games, and it certainly helps the deck "go aggro" better.

[undone]

Lands are an issue as well. With no Stifles or Wastelands, the effects of lands can be a serious issue.

Needle is your best friend.

Yixlid Jailer is fucking awful. Both matches I lost were due to him not being Tormod's Crypt.

Jailer is for ichy crypt is for the rest.

I hate how this deck has no way to stop recursion outside of Jailer and Countertop. Ruins + EE wrecks you.

Once again, needle is your best friend.

To the rest I cant atest but sounds like failure to shuffle/have luck that doesnt suck.

This deck is bad at going Agro, which sometimes has to happen due to mulligens.

Disrupt THEN kill. Dont even put a threat on the board unless its combo untill you have worn them out/have counter defences.

I am always confused by people's lack of enthusiasm for Mystic Enforcer. It's such a fantastic trump card for lots of board situations (much moreso than pinpoint removal like Vindicate or O Ring). The card has won me so many games, and it certainly helps the deck "go aggro" better.

I have found that in that slot I would rather have shackles or hoofprints 90% of the time. In any matchup where enforcer is good shackles is better, in any other matchup (and some of those) hoofprints is better. Shackles costs 1 less, the best function of enforcer is enforcer has CMC 4 counter top, that is the only reason I would play it over other cards in that slot.

[Whit3 Ghost]

You have to build your own sideboard, as with any deck. Yixlid Jailer was in our board because it's the most effective card against Ichorid. If that isn't a top priority for you, cut the card for something else.

I'm not sure what you mean about lands being an issue, but I assume it's a minor point. It isn't as if every deck has to play Wasteland.

Pyroclasm being "dreck" is kind of bizarre. If that's true, why do you want to run even two? Perhaps you don't see Goblins or Ichorid often enough to justify the card.

What makes the deck "bad at going aggro?"

I am always confused by people's lack of enthusiasm for Mystic Enforcer. It's such a fantastic trump card for lots of board situations (much moreso than pinpoint removal like Vindicate or O Ring). The card has won me so many games, and it certainly helps the deck "go aggro" better.

Eh, I agree. I sort of wanted to test it using your card choices though. Otherwise it would have looked like my Thrash sideboard and I didn't want to do that.

I meant like Ruins/EE, Crucible/Factory, Maze of Ith ect. Some of them are at least half stoppable via Krosan Grip, but I don't like the lack of Pithing Needle in your sideboard.

The "going Aggro" comment had to do with the fact that you don't really have much reach. Sometimes your draws don't fit into the control role and have to play guys and try to ride them out. This deck feels worse at that than other Threshold lists. I am not saying that the deck doesn't switch roles well, as it does.

Pyroclasm as any more than a 2 of has made me hate the space it takes up in the board. The only matchups you want it in are Goblins, Ichorid and Combo. Against Combo and Ichorid they are secondary to the cards needed to stopping them from going off.

I think that Goyf is starting to make board stalemates less common, and that is where Enforcer really shines.

Sorry if I missed anything.

[Shtriga]

Rafiq of the Many 1(G)(W)(U) - Human Knight - 3/4

Exalted:

Whenever a creature you control attacks alone it gains Double Strike EOT

would this be a good inclusion? it makes your goyfs and geese stupid. it would compete with enforcer though

[undone]

This card is better then enforcer, it is BLUE so its force pitchable.

[Aggro_zombies]

This card is better then enforcer, it is BLUE so its force pitchable.

You're kidding, right?

This card and Enforcer are not comparable. Enforcer has evasion and protection from non-StP removal, and can block and kill Tarmogoyfs on its own. This will most likely only trade with Goyfs, and then only when attacking. It also does nothing for you if you're not on the defensive - when you want to end the game by attacking with multiple creatures, this is infinitely worse than Mystic Enforcer because, again, of the lack of evasion and this time the lack of any bonuses.

Enforcer may not pitch to Force, but it's sure as hell better than this.

[KillemallCFH]

What Aggro said. This isn't even comparable to Enforcer in terms of being able to end the game.

[undone]

You're kidding, right?

Lets look at this.

8 damage a turn vs 6 with evasion.

This means its close to even, and unlike enforcer when he citp his goyfie friend swings for 12. This is why he > enforcer. He lets you swing INTO Dnaughts with a goyf. Seriously he is good because the he deals more then enforcer does on an open board.

There are several cases enforcer is better in but usualy hoofprints is better there even though its slower, this card is litteraly a "This card can get there all by itself" card. Its alot like enforcer although it runs into anything.

The card also unlike enforcer is pitchable to force. This is HUGE.

[Adan]

Lets look at this.

8 damage a turn vs 6 with evasion.

This means its close to even, and unlike enforcer when he citp his goyfie friend swings for 12. This is why he > enforcer. He lets you swing INTO Dnaughts with a goyf. Seriously he is good because the he deals more then enforcer does on an open board.

There are several cases enforcer is better in but usualy hoofprints is better there even though its slower, this card is litteraly a "This card can get there all by itself" card. Its alot like enforcer although it runs into anything.

The card also unlike enforcer is pitchable to force. This is HUGE.

This is still a suboptimal cardchoice. You actually always want to swing with multiple creatures to deal a lot of damage. Swingin with 1 creature that can be made redundant by a recurring Squee, well, it's not good.

Swinging into Dreadnoughts is also a bas compairison since the Goyfs have to be AT LEAST 6/7 (not so easy to accomplish), but the thing is that they don't need to have Double Strike when they are 6/7 as they can race the Dreadnought. Mystic Enforcer does the same, but even better as he can simply fly over Dreadnoughts.

Pitching to FoW is a aspect you can neglect since Mystic Enforcer wins games. I usually shuffle him back into the library with Brainstorm-Fetch if he is of no use and it's just fine as it is.

I also don't like the UGW1 Manacost.

[Jaiminho]

I also don't like the UGW1 Manacost.

Not any harder to get than 2GW, unless, somehow, you got yourself under a Moon and only fetched Plains and Forest, but no Island.

[undone]

6/7

5/6 you mean, exaulted affects your other dudes.

5/6 is not hard to do at all, 1 artifact or enchantment.

Pitching to FoW is a aspect you can neglect since Mystic Enforcer wins games. I usually shuffle him back into the library with Brainstorm-Fetch if he is of no use and it's just fine as it is.

There are times you cant find brainstorm to shuffle it, or simply dont want to pitch something (Counter balance, predict or X where X is a utility spell)

This creature also unlike enforcer has a higher total damage because it immediately impacts the board, not a turn later, geese swing for 8, goyfs swing for 10-12.. I mean this card is made of win.

HOWEVER I could see going a 1/1 split with enforcer/this.

[Adan]

5/6 you mean, exaulted affects your other dudes.

5/6 is not hard to do at all, 1 artifact or enchantment.

What sense does this make? First you say you can attack into Dreadnoughts. In that case they have to be 6/7 to trade with the Nought.
A lone Goyf with 5/6 Double Strike attacking into Dreadnought is... the most stupid thing you can do? Oo

There are times you cant find brainstorm to shuffle it, or simply dont want to pitch something (Counter balance, predict or X where X is a utility spell)

If I had the choice between pitching Enforcer (again: the 6/6 Flying beater!) to FoW or Predict to FoW, I will definiteley choose Predict anyways.

This creature also unlike enforcer has a higher total damage because it immediately impacts the board, not a turn later, geese swing for 8, goyfs swing for 10-12.. I mean this card is made of win.

No it doesn't since it has got a shabby 3/4 body itself and can be killed by everything like Shriekmaw and Flametounge Kavu.

And you actually swing with ONE Goose or ONE Goyf. As soon as you attack with more creatures it will do nothing, thus the "damage-potential" vanishes.
By the way, Goose won't swing for 8, it would theoretically swing for 6.

[undone]

What sense does this make? First you say you can attack into Dreadnoughts. In that case they have to be 6/7 to trade with the Nought.
A lone Goyf with 5/6 Double Strike attacking into Dreadnought is... the most stupid thing you can do? Oo

Read exaulted.

If I had the choice between pitching Enforcer (again: the 6/6 Flying beater!) to FoW or Predict to FoW, I will definiteley choose Predict anyways.

Bad example, but the point stands, pitching CB or a 2nd force is worse then pitching them.

Options are why this deck is good.

No it doesn't since it has got a shabby 3/4 body itself and can be killed by everything like Shriekmaw and Flametounge Kavu.

And you actually swing with ONE Goose or ONE Goyf. As soon as you attack with more creatures it will do nothing, thus the "damage-potential" vanishes.
By the way, Goose won't swing for 8, it would theoretically swing for 6.

Once again read exaulted.

Also the above costs as much or more mana then this and are sorc speed. Guess what Daze exists, and the differances is he already impacted the game, the turn he comes down he can act as a high damage buffer.

[Adan]

Ah. Exalted gives a +1/+1 bonus. Hm, ok, that's somehow cool.

[Obfuscate Freely]

Read exaulted.

Once again read exaulted.

If he reads it, will you learn how to spell it?


Rafiq is interesting, but I don't know if it can replace Enforcer. A 3/4 is such a weak blocker, so the card is poor if you are on the defensive. On the other hand, Rafiq can be pretty impressive on the offensive, but his value actually plummets if you want to apply pressure beyond that of a single attacking creature. The lack of evasion also hinders Rafiq's ability to force through what damage he does deal.

Enforcer seems significantly better in several matchups, such as Goblins, Survival, and (obviously) Suicide variants.

[undone]

If he reads it, will you learn how to spell it?


Rafiq is interesting, but I don't know if it can replace Enforcer. A 3/4 is such a weak blocker, so the card is poor if you are on the defensive. On the other hand, Rafiq can be pretty impressive on the offensive, but his value actually plummets if you want to apply pressure beyond that of a single attacking creature. The lack of evasion also hinders Rafiq's ability to force through what damage he does deal.

Enforcer seems significantly better in several matchups, such as Goblins, Survival, and (obviously) Suicide variants.

1) Touche'

2) Enforcer is better in many matchups, but there are just as many matchups where rafiq is > enforcer.

Combo (Force pitching+ faster clock)
Landstill (makes geese GET THERE)
threshold mirror (Your dudes ALL beat there dudes.)

[Aggro_zombies]

1) Touche'

2) Enforcer is better in many matchups, but there are just as many matchups where rafiq is > enforcer.

Combo (Force pitching+ faster clock)
Landstill (makes geese GET THERE)
threshold mirror (Your dudes ALL beat there dudes.)

To quote you, let's look at this.

You said eight damage a turn versus six with evasion. Eight damage a turn to their recurring Mishra's Factory is really going to win you the game, alright. Yup, I can see it now: the Mishra's Factory will get monkeystomped into the ground.

Right before it comes back with Crucible.

See, the thing is, eight damage loses its luster when it's eight damage to a blocker, and there are many blockers in the format that can trade with this (lol eight damage per turn for one turn), outright kill it, or don't care because they can recur themselves. I'd take six damage to the face over eight damage to a blocker any day.

In the Threshold mirror, you might create some unfavorable blocks for them, but basically they use any one of a number of potential removal spells on this guy, kill him, and get back to business as usual. (Also, it's "their," not "there." "There" is used to designate a specific place or location while "their" is a possessive term indicating group ownership. Just thought I'd say this because the mistakes with it's/its, there/their/they're, and the like drive me nuts.) That, or they counter him. Well, that's true of Enforcer as well. Enforcer does dodge black removal, though, is out of burn range once Threshed, and can block and kill almost anything in the format, with a few exceptions. This is not quite out of burn range (combat damage and a Fire//Ice or Bolt will send him packing), blocks and kills not much but blocks and gets killed by a lot, and is legendary. Multiple Enforcers is fucking sexy, multiple Knights...not so much.

As for pitching to Force: Most of your deck is blue. One or two additional blue cards is not going to make a statistically significant difference when looking at the number of cards on average per opening hand available to pitch to Force. (EDIT: Also, pitching a win condition to Force is not hot except in the most desperate situations. Since you'll only want two or so of these, losing one to Force is a bit of a big deal.)

As for Landstill: Geese get there because they can't be hit by targeted removal. This does die to targeted removal, which means your Geese (or Goose, since it only gets a benefit when attacking alone) are about as good as when you run Enforcer instead. Also, they still die to Dreadnought (which, coincidentally, can't block Enforcer).

As for combo: Faster clock is moot when you realize that basically all combo decks aim to win before you get four mana. If you get to four mana and they still haven't gone off, you're probably winning. Therefore, Enforcer and this are win-mores in this matchup.

So basically, Rafiq < Enforcer in all but a few corner cases or situations where you're facing ungodly amounts of graveyard hate (a corner case in this day and age).

He has better art, though.

[Shugyosha]

If your opponent has two Goyfs and you only have a Goyf and an Enforcer the situation is pretty much a stalemate. You can fly over him but he can attack with his Goyfs. The damage race is favored because of the Enforcer though.

Now imagine you have a Goyf out and play a Rafiq. You can instantly attack with an exalted Goyf. Your 5/6 Double Striker against two 4/5 Goyfs? The enemy cannot even kill your creature with double blocking! So he will take 10 or chumb. If he takes 10 he cannot swing back during his turn because he won't survive another exalted attack.

Even removal on Rafiq after attacker declaration does nothing to change the +1/+1 Double Strike. Stifle hits it, but only one of the two abilities. SoRafiq is quite a house when it comes down to break up board stalemates.

[undone]

Like I said he has his uses, I would play 1 and 1 split between rafiq and X where X is enforcer/hoofprints.

There are things hes good at(Breaking stalemates/getting extra damage in for instance vs landstill), and things hes not so good at(blocking) so he will probably be in some builds of the deck.