[Deck] Mono-Blue Control (MUC)

[Jason]

Back to a previous question from Captain Hammer:

Another option that I forgot to mention is...

4 Ponder (a cheaper better impulse).

Lets hammer this list down now.

So you think the list should play 4 Powder Keg, okay, got it.

I'm going to go with...

+2 Spell Snare/Mana Leak
+1 Powder Keg
+1 Veldalken Shackles

So now, the relevent question is...

Which is better?

Spell Snare or Mana Leak?

I think Spell Snare is better in nearly every situation than Mana Leak. Yes I do think Mana Leak is good, as it almost always a hard counter and with B2B, it is a very scary card mid-late game against landstill. Spell Snare, however seems better because on the draw you are able to stop annoying 2cc spells; whereas, Mana Leak on the draw isn't as much fun to see. You need something that can stop your opponent's turn 2 and that card would be Spell Snare.

And with some of the crazy shenanigans I've seen recently, I would like to make a point that I run the standard MUC list (more or less - I don't main deck Propaganda for a few reasons I stated earlier, but I am contemplating changing it to have them there), but I also run Academy Ruins. It is a great card, even under B2B (you can bounce it back with Meloku...not that it's necessary when Meloku hits play but still...). Why is it great? Put Powder Keg on top of the deck. Or a Krosan Grip'ed Shackles. Or after sideboard, reuse that Tormod's Crypt or Pithing Needle that was destroyed.

Ruins is an excellent utility and by running 1, it is not eating up my Island count so I usually don't see it. However, when I do see it, it doesn't hurt anything. In fact, a lot of times it gives me an edge. I say try replacing an Island with Academy Ruins or dropping one card from a different slot to play with it. You probably won't notice anything until it actually wins you a game, but for those times, I think this card strengthens the deck significantly.

[kensook]

I agree with having 1 Academy Ruins as an Island. It helps the artifacts in the deck and doesn't disrupt the land drops as it being a 1-of.

EDIT: Sorry, totally forgot about B2B.

[Guy I Don't Know]

I have two questions, first why play two morphlings, they seem weak, and i would never want to draw two if them or play him before turn 6.

second, why does this deck not play fetches counterbalance and sensei's diving top?

I saw someone post a list with trinket mage and counterbalance, but i mean a non-toolbox list

[TeKo]

Morphling = weak ??? ... ?? WTF

Look at the mana curve to many cc0 and cc3+ Spells!

Imo Trinket, without Equipment and good targets except EE and Top, isn't that good.

[Kadaj]

Piece of advice to everyone who posts in this thread:

Read the opening post before asking questions. I'm not going to request that people read the whole thread, as that would be tedious and unruly, but reading the opening post shouldn't be out of the question. If you had, you would know that the reason why we don't play Counterbalance is because:

Counterbalance/Top: This is a big one, and one that will probably be asked about over and over again despite my mentioning it here, but basically this combo sucks in MUC. Before you all throw a fit, Counterbalance is not a hard lock. It’s also not free in terms of deck space. In case you haven’t noticed, MUC is both a very slow deck at actually killing an opponent, making it far easier for someone to break out of Counterbalance, and is lacking in free space to simply slot 7+ cards into the list. In fact, one of the major reasons I bothered to write this primer is because of how far MUC has come, and how close to optimized it truly is. Due to this level of optimization, there is very little room to cut 7 or more cards to make room for Counterbalance/Top.

On top of that, MUC isn’t the type of deck that needs to counter everything, which is one of the major arguments people usually use to pitch Counter/Top. They claim you can’t counter everything, which is why they want to include it. This is incorrect, simply because you don’t WANT to counter everything. What do you think stuff like Engineered Explosives and Vedalken Shackles are in these lists for? Because playing a deck that does nothing but attempt to counter things will get run over in the mid-game when other decks begin to throw too many threats at you for you to be able to counter all of them.

So, in short, Counter-Top is garbage in MUC because this deck is completely incapable of taking advantage of the tempo Counter-Top provides. Intelligent opponents will also be able to play through it anyway, because our curve isn't structured in a way that makes Counter-Top effective anyway, on top of all of the other reasons I just mentioned/referenced.

Morphling is played as a two of because, frankly, it's important to have more than one in case you have to pitch it to force, or let one hit the grave off a FoF, or have it killed, or discarded by Thoughtseize, etc, etc. There are a million reasons, and most of them revolve around resiliency.

[Arne]

I don't know about morphling being a two-off... I mean, it's a great finisher and all, but what when it gets struck by a thoughtseize into a pate?

I play, rainbow efreet, morphling and teferi and in my opinion, that's good enough. Usually I don't even win with my own creatures, I just use my opponent's or they scoop due to my superiority

[Captain Hammer]

Quick rules question: Does Rainbow Efreet die to Sudden Death?

I mean can you phase it out as -1/-3 or does it go straight to the yard?

[Eldariel]

It dies. A creature that has less toughness than 0 dies as a state-based effect which means there's no window of making plays.

[proraptor]

I have a 1 question why are you all playing Ancestral vision? I don't really get that, issen't it a bit much 4 turn's. Ok on turn 1 or 2 it's nice but in the late game it's only food for your FOW and issen't it a little risky to play it on turn 2 or something if you want to counter something or play a powder keg?
Secondly I would add 3 spell snare and remove 3 foil!
I would also ask you guys to post suggestions for the sideboard, I'm playing in a meta with lots of Loam variants, Goblins, Thres variants, Dragon stompy and Combo decks like Ichorid, So what should be in the side?
fixed cards are definitly:
4 blue elemental blast
4 chill
1 vedalken shackles
plz help me with the 6 open slots!

[Arne]

against Ichorid, I would play crypt or maybe even relic of progenitus. Also, FoW and a turn three propaganda is rather good against those nasty zombies.

I've only had problems against DS when they managed to get an early red akroma out.

Thres shouldn't be a problem considering their non-basic heavy manabase.

Pithing needle should be a safe bet against a lot of decks.

[kensook]

@ proraptor

Read the opening post, it explains a lot about its card choices. Then if you still have a problem elaborate your argument and provide evidence about what you claim. Just saying that we should play spell snare instead of foil doesn't tell us anything.

As for the sideboard, I would play Pithing Needle and Crypts in addition to the cards you provided.

[kensook]

Sorry for the double post, but I have a question about my own sideboard as well. I play in a meta where every week people bring different decks so I can't really have a SB for a specific meta. My sideboard currently goes like this:

1 Vedalken Shackles
3 Pithing Needle
4 Blue Elemental Blast
4 Chill
3 ???

I am having trouble deciding on the last three slots. I'm thinking of either 3 Annul, 3 Disrupt, or 3 Misdirection. For a general meta, what do you guys think would be best?

[Arne]

Looking at the chill's and the BEB's, I'd say you have to face a lot of gobbo and/or burn... if not, play crypts... GY is overused in in legacy

[Poron]

My MUC:

24 Islands

2 Morhpling

4 Powder Keg
4 Propaganda
3 Back to Basic
3 Vedalken Shackles

4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Misdirection
2 Hinder/Dissipate still to decide, the idea anyway is to cut the Loam thing even before side

4 Fact or Fiction
4 Impulse

Probably the 2x slot will be for Hinder so we also get out of the Burning Wish problem.

This list doesn't fear Chalice at 1, graveyard hate, and almost doesn't fear at all Trinisphere.

I start thinking about play Chalice of the Void ourselves, with mox diamond as support (since we play 24 island) and Thirst for Knowledge to drop the excessing Moxes. (For example instead of Impulse)

This can be very cool, can't it?

Assuming the
-4 Impulse
+4 Thirst for Knowledge

we still have to add 8 cards (chalice and mox) what do we cut? that would be crazy

SB

4 Chill
4 CotV
2 Gaea's Blessing
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Back to Basic

edit: after some test I realized that both Dissipate and Misdirections are cards we're definitly not going to play often and I always prefer to have Chalice in my side.

-2 Misdirection
-2 Dissipate
-4 Impulse

+4 Thirst for Knowledge
+4 Chalice of the Void

still dreaming rooms for 4 Mox diamond

now trying:
-1 island
-2 fact or fiction
-1 morphling
+4 mox diamond

i'm not happy at all with my cuts but to start with mox + chalice is so big with our deck

[Jason]

i'm not happy at all with my cuts but to start with mox + chalice is so big with our deck

I don't think Mox + Chalice is that big. First, what is it accomplishing? Is it trying to stop some sort of Belcher combo? Or just slow down Threshold? I don't see it being too exciting because I won't want to have either down in many games, seeing as Powder Keg usually goes off for 0 (sometimes 1...blasted Mongoose) and blowing up my own permanents seems counter productive. I think if you want to slow down Threshold or have extra early disruption, run Spell Snare and/or Force Spike (I would suggest Spell Snare because it is solid in nearly all match ups and rarely a dead card...but Force Spike can be good too depending on who you are playing). Either will be doing the same as Mox + Chalice most of the time and you won't have to eat as many slots in an already solid build.

On top of that, Mox gives you card disadvantage. You have to pitch a land to use it, and MUC relies heavily on lands.

I would be very surprised to see this addition actually benefit an already solid build.

[Poron]

with 2 morphling, honestly matches are pretty long, while controlling the board and waiting to draw em.

My powder Kegs works most of time set at 2 and chalice is great countering Sensei's Top
Thoughtseize
Brainstorm
Ponder
Stifle
StP
making lot of draw phases dead.

and also allowing you to save your counters for other threats. I think Thoughtseize really hurts us.

Again, a turn 1 mox diamond is always good even without Chalice.
It allows us 1st turn Counterspell, 2nd turn Back to Basics Vedalken Shackles or Propaganda.

in my opinion it is simply BIG the only problem is that we're cutting important slots to make the room for Moxes... that's the only thing.

a new input: has Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale been already discussed here? because in certain matchups where Back to Basic is pretty useless Tabernacle with Propaganda would work great to keep the board control and since we're playing 24 islands... we can also play 22 islands and 2 Tabernacle, or at least in 2x by sideabord.

any thoughts?

[Hopo]

I would also ask you guys to post suggestions for the sideboard, I'm playing in a meta with lots of Loam variants, Goblins, Thres variants, Dragon stompy and Combo decks like Ichorid, So what should be in the side?
fixed cards are definitly:
4 blue elemental blast
4 chill
1 vedalken shackles
plz help me with the 6 open slots!

If there really is lots of loam, try Declation of Naught. I remember it being used with positive results in Japan. It shines against recurring, dangerous spells and I think loam qualifies as one.

[Poron]

definitive list (till now):

23 Island
4 Mox Diamond

2 Morphling

4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

4 Powder Keg
3 Propaganda
2 Back to Basic
3 Vedalken Shackles

3 Fact or Fiction
4 Thirst for Knowledge

SB:
4 Tormod's Crypt (not anymore Relic of Progenitus because the Chalice set 1)
2 Back to Basic
1 Propaganda
4 Chill
2 Gaea's Blessing (wow, come on. it simply resolve a whole matchup without even being played...)
2x free slot (till now)

I'm not sure anyway of the Tormod's Crypt, the reanimatore matchup is pretty easy, just countering the Buried Alive.
Tarmogoyf has already 4 Powder keg and 3 Vedalken that aims to him... Ichorid and Loam, yes.
But against Ichorid i far prefer to have a propaganda or a Powder keg set at 0 and loam... lol, we just need to counter Sismic Assault, the rest is worthless.
So may be we can even save the 4 tormod's sb slot... and go to 6 free slot in SB.

Ideas?

[DeathwingZERO]

I wouldn't necessarily say the rest is worthless in Aggro Loam. They'll out accelerate you, Grip your Kegs, and pay for your Propaganda effects, while pummeling you with creatures out of range of your Shackles.

Also, as far as the deck itself is concerned, I am very afraid of some of those choices:

2 B2B means that you are not consistent on having it by turn 3 (or turn 2, with your Moxen), I'd bump that to a 4 of, it's the spine of the deck.

3 FoF and 4 Thirst need to be switched. FoF is 1 more mana, but will always generate better draws from it. I would never swap a FoF for any other draw spell legal in the format. It's too good mid and late game, and you have acceleration to pump it out faster.

You need that 4th Propaganda. Seeing multiples of them is better than not, and stacking them just makes it worse on any aggro strategy. This is a key card for beating decks like Ichorid and Loam, you NEED to see multiples so they can't afford to beat you down.

To be honest, I'm very confused at your reliance on Powder Keg (as a 4 of), and playing Moxen with them. You are hitting yourself even harder on your own mana sources if you have to Keg @ 0, which is pretty common for this deck to do. If you are absolutely needing to play the Diamonds, I'd suggest finding a way to fit at least 1-2 Crucible in there.

[idraleo]

4 Mox Diamond

That' s the bottom line... I quit! [cit.]