Dreadnought is terrible. I hate the card, and I have said my reasons many, many times. Confidant draws you cards, allowing you to achieve your plan A more effectively. Dreadnought 2-for-1's you every single time.
Matt McNally is a New England Vintage player who saw me play the deck a while back and was intrigued. He got the list from my old tournament report, and started playing the deck. He's done well with it.
i'm playing a trinket painter. My friend plays a very strong stiflenought control.
How would you suggest playing/siding in against this deck?
Just Grip and EE.
Every DTB forum update is simply shuffling around the same ten decks.
And I'd try to assemble CB+Top, whatever comes first.Originally Posted by Ch@os
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
I will say after playtesting the deck more and more, my deck keeps looking more and more like your build Nightmare. There are two main difference, though. I'm using Portent instead of Brainstorm in the deck. I would suggest doing the same. It allows you to shuffle if you don't get what you want and it also allows you to keep your opponent from drawing something to stop your combo when you're about to combo out. Portent + Ponder is very powerful together, since you can stack both your deck and you're opponents in the same turn, while they both replace themselves in your hand. The other difference is I'm running Duress over Thoughtseize, mainly because the deck is suicidal enough already, and I'm not too worried about creatures, since if I don't combo out, I'm not likely to win pre-board, and postboard, I'm more likely running bigger creatures and EEs to take out opposing small creatures.
Team PGK (Psychopathic Garbage Kids)
Portent over brainstorm is definitely not right; especially in a deck with fetchlands. "Stacking" your opponent's deck is not part of your primary gameplan. Brainstorm smoothes your draws, interacts very well with both counterbalance and fetchlands, and is an instant. Brainstorm is vastly superior to portent and should never be replaced.
Last edited by jrp; 09-23-2008 at 04:03 PM. Reason: Grammar
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, don't do that!
I could write the same thing I'd write into the Threshold-Thread, but jrp already mentioned a lot of reasons.
Brainstorm is essential for the deck because it does what it is supposed to do: Turning dead cards (i.e. cards you have multiple copies of stuck in your hand or toolbox cards ot lands) into more useful cards. And this is also possible at Instant-speed. Portent can't do that and that is why you should never cut Brainstorm from this deck under any circumstances.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
lmfao! You must have children?
anyway, was wondering what matchups you guys are siding the combo out for the man-plan, and exactly what creatures you guys use.
I know Goyf is a 4-of, and DC seems to be a popular addition, but I saw that Stiflenought is being used (I don't like this), and Tombstalker was mentioned (I'm a skeptical on this). Who's using what, and how well is it working?
I'm using 4 Goyf and 4 DC, that's all.
Pce,
--DC
No. Well, I don't know of any. =/ It would be very strange, though, especially because I'm only 18 yrs old. And I want to spend my money for nerdy cardgames instead of diapers and baby-milk!
I would guess that the creatures come in most of the time against several decks as you have actually soemthing like a transformational sideboard.anyway, was wondering what matchups you guys are siding the combo out for the man-plan, and exactly what creatures you guys use.
I know Goyf is a 4-of, and DC seems to be a popular addition, but I saw that Stiflenought is being used (I don't like this), and Tombstalker was mentioned (I'm a skeptical on this). Who's using what, and how well is it working?
I'm using 4 Goyf and 4 DC, that's all.
Pce,
--DC
Postboard you have the possibility to play UGb Threshold (crippled, but it works) which makes you less reliant on the combo you are a littlebit helpless against a postboard Gaea's Blessing.
Playing around Gaea's Blessing then needs a lot of setup. In addition to the combo you need either Lim Duls Vault, Trinket Mage or you simply topdeck the Crypt like you need it. THEN you can also win against Blessing.
But the clock consisting of Goyfs and Stalkers is very potent and I guess you could also dare to play the Stalkers together with Confidants as you generate a lot of CQ to avoid getting 8 damage into the face.
Not to mention that some decks can't deal with Stalker efficiently, especially if you can back it up with Counterbalance.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
Playing Stalker + Force + DC in the same deck is catastrophic. Are you seriously kidding me Adan?
About Portent, it's at the very least a better option than Ponder. You sacrifice half a turn, but in return, you're given an extra control card if you need it.
Team PGK (Psychopathic Garbage Kids)
Ponder is pretty much strictly better than Portent. You should be absolutely willing to sacrifice the ability to manipulate your opponent's deck in order to have the card in your hand now. It's not even a question.
As for the interaction of Bob and the man plan, read the first post. There's a reason I play 3/3. When Tombstalker comes in, Dark Confidant comes out.
I was well aware of that Nightmare, however, I've won many matches because I used Portent in a position where I could (and did) win and used it to stack my opponents deck so they had no response to what I was doing. Only once has it saved the combo, however, several times has it saved me when I was simply beatsticking my way to victory and they had answers (Swords, EE, Deed, etc.) on top of the deck, and I put them out of their reach for enough turns to beat them in the face for the win. Have you even tried Portent? And for that reason, why is getting it immediately so much better? I thought your aim in this deck was to win as soon as possible with as little resistance as possible. If that's the case, what's going to change if you draw the card the next turn? It would only matter on turns 3-4 which I'm usually (and I'm assuming you are too) setting up for the win. In that position, I would rather not look at my own deck, but rather stack my opponent's deck so that I can win, again, with as little resistance as possible. By the way, if you're trying to ponder for pieces of the combo, if it's already that late in the game, I've found it usually a lost cause to go for the combo immediately, and typically spend my time controlling the match until my opponent has exhausted all of their resources so that I can easily play the combo without having to worry about any answers, and in this case, Portent is still better. I cannot count the number of times I've won at 4 or lower life.
By the way, the thing the deck needs more than anything else is a small bit of life gain. Not much, but just about 3-4 extra life a game would make the deck far more brutal.
Team PGK (Psychopathic Garbage Kids)
I don't really know how to refute the points you're trying to make without either sounding unreasonable or reconditioning you to play the deck the same way I do. If Portent is working out well for you, run it.
You must never ever see top in your meta, because otherwise this strategy wouldn't work. All they have to do is spin top and you've wasted a spell. If they play top, you have no argument as to this being better or even equal to Ponder.
I, for one, would never condone Portent over Ponder simply for this reason. It's usefulness in the way you are describing is absolutely nonsense to anyone whose meta runs any sort of CounterTop, FT, or any other random deck that sports the Top. Or their own sets of brainstorm and ponder.
What do you think you would like to run as lifegain? Let's at least address the topic. I think that if you maindeck 4x Goyf in tandem with at least some of each of your combo pieces then you would lose less life. I think Life-gain is useless as it gets you nowhere in respect to winning.
Pce,
--DC
Actually, no, my meta does not use Top, if it did, I'd play Ponder. As far as Life Gain, I don't know any card that would be worth running. I have been tempted to run Goyf main. Have you tried it DC?
Team PGK (Psychopathic Garbage Kids)
Yes, I use Tarmogoyf, and it works, but I think I would rather use 4x of each combo piece. Goyf makes it too Threshy. And then I get bored.
I'm going to use Tombstalkers in the board. That sounds like a go. DC always be dropped (obv) when siding them in. I hate running DC without a top in play...It makes me mad when I don't have my Top down and I hit a Force. -5 to the dome is lousy...especially with the added -1 just to use it. Ouch. I guess that's the nature of the beast. Not that it happens a lot, I'm just being a whiney-ass.
About Gaea's Blessing...I hate that card. How is it best beat? Explain how I use Tormod's Crypt. Is this how it works?:
ME: 3, tap Grindstone, mill them. Hit blessing. Blessing Triggers, you finish milling(?; This part is grey for me, although I'm not sure it matters as to how much I know exactly, but rather the end result. Feel free to tell me accurately), response, activate crypt. It resolves, removing Blessing and graveyard. You win. Forgive me if I'm way off, but I'm no judge, and I haven't played this in anything bigger than a small FNM-like environment. Please enlighten me (Oh, and I've never actually run INTO Gaea's Blessing...)
Pce,
--DC
That's exactly how it works. You allow the resolution of the mill to happen, then, with the trigger from Blessing still on the stack, you Crypt them. This is possible no matter how many Blessings they run. Then, the trigger resolves, they shuffle nothing into their library, and still lose.
Absoluteley.
You mill him, milling his entire deck into the graveyard as the repetition of the process is a part of the resolution. After the Grindstone resolved - the opponent's deck is in the yard - Blessing triggers. In response you crypt him and then he shuffles his no more existent graveyard into his deck.
edit: Didn't see Nightmare's post, wtf...
That is actually the 2nd point I like about EPIC Painter, it does not lose to Gaea's Blessing compaired to Imperial Painter which has got like 0 outs for it, except Faerie Macabres (you have to try it again the next turn then).
Thanks to Goyf and Stalker, EPIC Painter has got a better man-plan than Imperial Painter.
Team SPOD
<Der_imaginäre_Freund> props:
Adan for being the NQG God (drawer)
I've been fiddling with decks very very similar (almost the exact same) since I saw Painter's servant on the spoiler, just want to point out a fun tip of using top + grindstone on yourself to dig for painter or answers in a tight situation.
While on trix, remember that Academy Ruins can be VERY useful in the mirror.
Man, I love this deck. I'm so glad I didn't waste >$400 on a set of Recruiters just to play a painter list.
Schadenfreude is the most genuine kind of joy, since it doesn't include even a drop of envy.Why can't we just admit it?
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