[Deck] Fetchland Tendrils

[JeroenC]

What turn do you usually win with this deck? I'm just wondering, to know if I'm not playing it too slow.

[thefreakaccident]

On average, I usually take all the time I need against agro, usually going off at around turn 4-5...

Against control/other combo decks, I will try to go off by turn 3 at the latest.. usually turn two before they can get counterspell mana...

Agro-control is difficult, because it depends on how they have opened up... if they go for counterbalance turn two, then you have to slow down and find disruption/hate... if they do not, then you can just go and get chant, and win the game (at least this is my experience).


The deck can go fast, but it doesn't need to, as, unlike other combo decks, you actually get stronger as the game progresses (sculpting a perfect hand, hitting your disruption/tutors... etc.).


This deck molds the way it plays to fit the situation at hand, and therefor plays accordingly.

If you are strictly goldfishing, then it is around turn 3 on average (at least for me and my version...).

[JeroenC]

Okay, that means I will have to practice on going some faster for sure.

[Jaiminho]

What turn do you usually win with this deck? I'm just wondering, to know if I'm not playing it too slow.

On the 5 rituals, 4 Doomsday, 1 IT, 1 IGG, version, I get an average golfishing turn of about 3,5. It's about half on 3 and half on 4, since the turn 2 and 5+ kills are pretty rare.

[rsaunder]

On the 5 rituals, 4 Doomsday, 1 IT, 1 IGG, version, I get an average golfishing turn of about 3,5. It's about half on 3 and half on 4, since the turn 2 and 5+ kills are pretty rare.

Ive found pretty much the exact same thing. But on turn 4 you have disruption a VAST majority of the time.

[surly]

I'm playing FT for about one month now, and I really have to admit that it's one of the thoughest deck that i've played in the last years. Congrats to emidln at this point

Though I have some questions regarding sideboarding ... first, my SB:

3x Serenity
3x Krosan Grip
2x Extirpate
1x Rushing River
1x Echoing Truth
1x Rebuild
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Pyroclasm
1x Grapeshot
1x Helm of Awakening

To be honest, i mostly netdecked it cause I had no clue how a good board would look like, simply to get an idea how it could look (try-and-fail preocess )

Yesterday I played some games against Faerie Stompy, and I found the MU really though preboard. Mainly Chalice put a loot of presure on me cause I only play Wipe Away MD as a solution, and FoW + clock didn't made it much better^^ I only won 1 game preboard cause he had no 1st turn Chalice, so i could leave U open to tutor Wipe Away in case he drew one. Preboard it changed, and I only lost one game out of seven I think. Although he brought 3sphere in, it wasn't that hard to handle.
But the question I wanted to ask some more experienced players: What are you boarding out in this MU? I boarded something like +3 Serenity, +3 Grip +1 Rebuild / -1 IGG (cause he probably brings Crypt), -1 IT, -1 Wipe Away, -4 Duress ... I was quite unsure if it's right to cut Duress, but I had no other stuff - how would you have boarded?

Other questions that came to my mind:

1- in which MU's are you boarding the Helm/Grapeshot combo?
2- is the Rushing River any good? I thought about CB, but Grip solves the Problem more easily - also, Teeg or Meddling Mage are easily answered by Slaughter Pact and Pyroclasm.
3- do you board the Extirpates only against Loom and Ichorid, or are there other MU's where it's good?
4- what are you boarding out most of the time? Do you cut 4-off's like Ponder (wouldn't feel like a good idea) or are you boarding out 1-off's like IGG, IT, Cabal Rit., Wipe Away etc? Against slow decks i usually board out the IT, cause I have enough time to set up a Doomsday-kill, while against fast decks (Combo, Goyfsligh) I think it would be a good idea to leave it in.
5- in case you know your opponent is boarding Pithing Needle, would you consider boarding SDT out? Or are you fighting the Needle with Grip, Serenity etc?
6- are you boarding Grip/Serenity against Survival? I really have no clue, cause I think I would leave the MD without a change...
7- I played against a MonoB Suicide and a Pox build with tons of discard - are there any SB Cards against those decks? Although it's a comperaltive rare MU I found it quite hard fighting all the discard (I think i only won 2 or 3 games out of 10)

I want to appreciate everyone who could answer some of my questions and admit bad grammar

thx
surly

[Brehn]

1- in which MU's are you boarding the Helm/Grapeshot combo?

a) Against every UWx deck if I fear Meddling Mages coming in.
b) Against every GWx deck if I fear Gaddock Teegs coming in.
c) Against white-based control/aggrocontrol if I fear Runed Halos coming in.
d) Against decks with bigger amounts of life gain. Those are usually rogue decks but you can never know. I've played against Berserk Stompy and he brought in Healing Leaves as anti-Tendrils tech O_o. There are some decks packing Zuran Orb, Kitchen Finks + Cabal Therapy, Renewed Faith, ...
e) Against black-based decks with discard + Extirpate.

2- is the Rushing River any good? I thought about CB, but Grip solves the Problem more easily - also, Teeg or Meddling Mage are easily answered by Slaughter Pact and Pyroclasm.

Rushing River is good, though its main use is neither CB nor Teeg nor Mage. Bouncing Chalice+Chalice, Chalice+Trinisphere, Chalice+Blood Moon etc is it. Huge against Chalice Aggro / Stax-ish decks.

3- do you board the Extirpates only against Loom and Ichorid, or are there other MU's where it's good?

They're pretty good against blue decks with countermagic. Rule of thumb: the less aggressive the opposing deck, the more effective Extirpate. So it's insane (!) against UWb Landstill and ITF, pretty good against CB Threshold and Dreadstill and good/mediocre against Tempo Thresh or Merfolk. Also, combo mirrors: TES, Solidarity, FT, Cephalid Breakfast.

4- what are you boarding out most of the time? Do you cut 4-off's like Ponder (wouldn't feel like a good idea) or are you boarding out 1-off's like IGG, IT, Cabal Rit., Wipe Away etc? Against slow decks i usually board out the IT, cause I have enough time to set up a Doomsday-kill, while against fast decks (Combo, Goyfsligh) I think it would be a good idea to leave it in.

I've written some of my boarding plans some pages ago. Basically I'm boarding out following cards with my list:

1 Cabal Ritual (blue decks)
1 Lotus Petal (non-race matchups)
1 Krosan Grip (if not needed)
1 Echoing Truth (if not needed or if there are better solutions in my board [think of Grip vs. Counterbalance])
2 Street Wraith (to free slots, this is an easy cut)
1 Ponder (if I need more space for SB cards)
1 Mystical Tutor (see Ponder)
4 Orim's Chant (depending on the opp's deck)

Other notes:
- If you're playing Lim-Dul's Vault, you want to board it out against tempo-based blue decks. Those usually pack Spell Snare and Daze.
- If you're playing Infernal Tutor main, you want to board it out against decks with countermagic most of the time.
- Always leave one Ill-Gotten Gains and one draw-4 in. You need them for your stacks.

5- in case you know your opponent is boarding Pithing Needle, would you consider boarding SDT out? Or are you fighting the Needle with Grip, Serenity etc?

No and no. I never board out Tops and if my opponent is playing Needle, I usually don't even bother looking for a solution. If you're playing Ancient Grudge in your board, you might consider boarding them in, but boarding in 2-3 cards just to fight 2-3 minor hate cards that just cut down some setup and some routes to victory doesn't seem appealing to me.

6- are you boarding Grip/Serenity against Survival? I really have no clue, cause I think I would leave the MD without a change...

I don't think there's a deck called "Survival". My boarding plans for different Survival lists are differing quite a lot.
(I'd never board in Serenity just because of Survival, though.)

7- I played against a MonoB Suicide and a Pox build with tons of discard - are there any SB Cards against those decks? Although it's a comperaltive rare MU I found it quite hard fighting all the discard (I think i only won 2 or 3 games out of 10)

Dark Confidant is pretty good against Suicide. Against Pox, not so much because they have removal. Make sure you're playing 2 Ill-Gotten Gains postboard. And Infernal Contract. And you probably should board in Grapeshot/Helm.

[surly]

Thanks for answering!

Rushing River is good, though its main use is neither CB nor Teeg nor Mage. Bouncing Chalice+Chalice, Chalice+Trinisphere, Chalice+Blood Moon etc is it. Huge against Chalice Aggro / Stax-ish decks.

Except for Moon everything you listed could also be handled by Rebuild (+ I once cycled it into Doomsday ) - if there are no other purposes I think I cut it (nobody in my area is playing Dragon Stompy)

I don't think there's a deck called "Survival". My boarding plans for different Survival lists are differing quite a lot.
(I'd never board in Serenity just because of Survival, though.)

Well, actually I only meant Survival of the Fittest as a lone card, but I think you're right, without knowing the rest of the deck the question is irrelevant...

Dark Confidant is pretty good against Suicide. Against Pox, not so much because they have removal. Make sure you're playing 2 Ill-Gotten Gains postboard. And Infernal Contract. And you probably should board in Grapeshot/Helm.

I also thought about adding Bobs for discard and maybe against Thresh and LS to win the war of attrition. Anyway I doubt it would be worth it, cause Thresh and LS are also doable without Bob...

One more question that came to my mind - is the Pyroclasm in the Board worth the slot? Cause it also forces you to run at least one Volcanic Island MD witch worsens your Wasteland MU's imho. The only uses I found for Clasm were:
- Goblins as a tutor target (though I doubt it's needed cause you should race them anyway)
- Magus of the Moon (can also be killed with Slaughter Pact)
- multiple Meddling Mages or Mage+Teeg (rare?)

Maybe I've forgotten some points, but i think I'll cut the Clasm for the 2nd IGG and the Volcanic Island for a Basic Plains.

[Dark_Cynic87]

I've been having problems with Dragon Stompy. Their most current builds get away from as much equipment in favor of MORE hate. The version I play with has MD'ed:

4x Magii
4x Moon
4x Chalice
2x Jitte

The Jitte may not seem like it does anything, but mixed with a Moon effect, a chalice and a Jitte, it becomes immenent to remove it as the life-gaining effects can really screw up your winning through all the hate. Honestly, if they drop a moon effect turn 1 on the play, it really limits what you are able to do for quite a while. If they drop a Chalice turn 2, it's even harder, and an active Jitte seals the deal, as they can save the counters for their final swing OR use them to get out of Tendrils range. This is doable because by the time you are able to work around the hate, you are around 10-12 life, and that puts you in Slogger range after D-Day AND each counter on Jitte = an added storm count for Tendrils.

Game two it gets even MORE difficult with:
4x Trinisphere
1x Jitte

And the guy I play against even has 2x Winter Orb in his side. This hate is extreme, and it's really SCREWING. ME. OVER. I'm thinking about a better reset button in, but I can't think of anything past what, deed? He runs NEEDLES SBED. SHIT. Please, if anyone knows the best way to go about beating this kind of nasty hate, lmk.

I'm really looking for the best way to play against Stompy builds as it seems to be hit or miss for me. I would really have to go back to the IGG/IT version of this for the turn 2 kill 80% of the time to deal with this effectively. So far, I've been able to do it a couple times with the Doomsday build, but only through IGG, and I have to have an opening hand of something like:

2x Mana accel, 1 of which has to be D. Rit
1x IT
4x ???

While that seems easy, it's not, as I run only 1x IT. I have a second one in the SB, but my mana accel isn't as high as it is in the IGG builds, so that takes a bit more work also. Mix that with not being able to fetch and hence no filtering, it is damn near impossible to get what I need in a situation where they can drop a turn-2 Slogger. Aaagh. Death by Stompy is a bit embarrassing...

Pce,

--DC

[rsaunder]

This exact reason is why I run 3x Serenity SB. If you have the presence of mind to fetch a plains quickly, it's a life saver. (It's also the reason the deck can effectively drop to 3 colors, although I still play grip.)

The IGG version wasn't much better against DS. The only games I won in tournaments were on the back of first turn ETW for 12+. Then again, that guy SMASHED both me and Bryant out of contention in about 20 minutes.

[Dark_Cynic87]

A third Serenity is all I can do? Meh, that sux. I think I'm going 3x Serenity, 1x Rebuild. Shit. I got pounded AGAIN last night. And, I'm going up to 18 lands. 5 basix. Can't decide on what to do:

8x Blue Fetches
1x Mire (should make up for the additional plains...)
1x Sea
1x Tundra
1x Scrub
1x Trop
2x Island
2x Plains (I know, but what else am I supposed to do?)
1x Swamp

Otherwise I'm looking at 2x Swamp and possibly a Heath in place of the Mire, but that doesn't do as much for me IMHO. I'm getting to 18 land by dropping the singleton Extirpate. I'm confident I can beat Ichorid without it via my experience with it. I can also always drop a Duress for it again if I NEED to.

LMK what you think. I also don't HAVE to have the 9th fetch, just testing it. So far it's been okay.

rant

Personally I wish they would just print Enemy Fetches. I could use a W/B one...Jeez. I don't see wtf the big deal is anyway...Of course, I could just be an idiot. I'm pretty sure this is the only land-cycle printed that's not fully completed. I could be wrong, but I sure feel like I'm right. In my mind the best mana base would use 2/4/3 of WB, UB, UW fetches, respectively.

/rant

18 lands lets you hit just as many lands as Thresh, but none being wastes, which is nice, and 5 basics, while it limits their useability, makes it much less waste/moon affected. Just as many cantrips. I'd like to hear opinions on this move, Emidln, Yawg07, and other extremely honed on the lists abilities most of all. No offense.

Pce,

--DC

[Zinch]

Personally I wish they would just print Enemy Fetches. I could use a W/B one...Jeez. I don't see wtf the big deal is anyway...Of course, I could just be an idiot. I'm pretty sure this is the only land-cycle printed that's not fully completed. I could be wrong, but I sure feel like I'm right. In my mind the best mana base would use 2/4/3 of WB, UB, UW fetches, respectively.

Sorry for the offtopic, but I had to puntualize this:
The CIPT dual lands from invasion is not fully completed also...

[emidln]

I'm currently playing the build I posted for the tournament and in the PLD thread -red duals, +1 Plains, +1 Island with -2 Ancient Grudge, -1 Krosan Grip, -1 Pyroclasm, -1 Rushing River +3 Serenity, +1 Ill-Gotten Gains, +1 Infernal Tutor in my sideboard. I've already explained the rationale for this in earlier posts (it has to do with the discard matchup). The red was to support Ancient Grudge + Clasm (a meta call with a lot of pithing needles floating around).

The full build looks like this:

// emidln's list circa 9-26-08
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tundra
1 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Lotus Petal
4 Dark Ritual
1 Cabal Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Duress
4 Orim's Chant
1 Krosan Grip
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Meditate
1 Cruel Bargain
4 Mystical Tutor
4 Doomsday
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony

// sb
3 Serenity
1 Slaughter Pact
2 Krosan Grip
1 Wipe Away
1 Echoing Truth
1 Rushing River
2 Extirpate
1 Helm of Awakening
1 Grapeshot
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Infernal Tutor

Now, as far as sideboarding, if you are playing against Chalice aggro, Duress is more valuable than Chant, but I believe some number of Chants might be necessary to beat Force of Will from Faerie Stompy. This is a critical application of my theory that Duress and Chant are not equivlent protection. The primary function of Duress is to take permanent-based hate. That it can take Force of Will or Stifle is completely incidental, and perhaps more than against Counterbalance Threshold, we see it in the Faerie Stompy matchup. Taking Chalices, Needles, and Trinispheres are worlds more important than dealing with Force of Will or Trickbind.

As far as the way I value things, I rarely, if ever, will board out my singleton Lotus Petal. Lotus Petal is especially good if you happen to see it against Chalice decks because it provides another white source for Serenity, but it allows you to combo with fewer cards. This is extremely important because Chalice decks tend to do a number on our manabase so having that extra land necessary to complete a graveyard-independent Doomsday pile may be impossible.

Ponder is often worthless against Chalice decks. Especially if you are running a list similar to mine, you are very heavy at the 1cc slot. I take these out for spells (hopefully disruption, but I sometimes don't even care about that) that don't cost 1. Dead cards in hand are bad, and our board is filled with things that are at least going to be somewhat useful if we resolve them (more useful than Ponder sitting in hand).

Krosan Grip is terrible against Dragon Stompy. You'll see me take this card out in a heartbeat because I'm going to play the entire game under the assumption that their top card is a Blood Moon effect and they have the means to cast it. Unless you're running Windswept Heath with basic Forest (and I don't recommend this btw, I tried it and finding a basic Island is way more important), you will be extremely disappointed with cards that are green.

As far as cards that I'll never consider boarding out with my current list:

17 Lands
4 Sensei's Top
4 Brainstorm
2 Doomsday
1 Meditate
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Tendrils of Agony

In my opinion, everything else is fair game. In extreme situations when I attempt to play the control role (think vs Mono White Control), I've boarded out my Dark Rituals and most of my LEDs. I board out Mystical Tutor on occasion when I know I will be fighting a war of attrition and just want cards that kill things (as opposed to killing something specific).

It really depends on the Loam deck if I bring in Extirpate or not. Against Aggro Loam, the answer is generally no. I'll tend to cut Chants, then Ponders (KGrip first if I believe they might have Blood Moon), and move on down the line. Extirpate, to me, is an anti-combo and anti-control card. The only time it will come in vs random stuff is when I have actual dead cards. Extirpate is best against Landstill, Ichorid, and Tempo Thresh. (Tempo Thresh has no recourse to Extirpate on Force of Will + Orim's Chant, and Landstill has very limited options.)

Duress rarely leaves my maindeck. This is because opponents will almost always have permanent-based hate that you don't want to see or a ton of really awkward spells (like Hymn to Tourach) that Chant won't affect at all.

I bring in Grapeshot + Helm against aggro (they tend to pack awkward cards like Extirpate, Gaddock Teeg, and other nonsense) and usually Infernal Tutor + IGG against aggro with discard (despite the fact that they might have graveyard hate (unless I know specifically what the hate is)). I often bring in Echoing Truth and Rushing River for KGrip + something against any non-blue deck because I simply assume they will have Pithing Needle, Chalice of the Void, Gaddock Teeg, Blood Moon, or something else that I don't really need to see on the table.

I'm also very quick to go into a very conservative role against decks with a combo finish. I've found that, unless they pack Tarmogoyf, they have an extremely difficult time with my assortment of bounce, removal, extirpates, and tutor effects. I don't care if I win fast, I just care that when I combo, I can win the game. (Helm + Grapeshot is amazing for this because you can build piles that both win the game now, and win the game if you're forced to pass the turn because of Extirpate or Chant.)

If you're going to pack additional hate for Dragon Stompy, it should likely be an additional Island and more Rushing Rivers + Ancient Grudges in the sb. River is great because it can bounce creatures or Blood moon. Grudge tends to kill Chalice, Trinisphere, or equipment (which are generally what keep me from winning, not the Blood Moons). If they are packing stuff like W. Orb + Pithing Needle, Grudge is going to be really good (as they are either boarding out Blood Moon, Equipment (which is actually wrong, they lose the game the longer it takes, they need to finish it quickly so we don't accidentally go land #3, serenity or land #3 + eot rushing river.

Edit: Update on the mtgsal tourney

I'm currently 5-0 playing the 75-card Doomsday list I said I would be playing when I posted on at least this site, mtgsal, and storm boards. I should be 4-0-1, but my 5th round opponent who was running UB Dreadstill didn't want to ID into top8. I'm fairly sure I coast into top8 in either 1st or 2nd since I'm playing Eldariel (the other X-0) next round and we can probably draw for the two best records. Report will be forthcoming from rounds 4 and 5 (one of my opponents whom I frequently talk to requested I not reveal information about his list until the list is generally known at the beginning of top8).

[surly]

I'm playing the same MD like your list posted above (except -1x Krosan Grip, -1x Doomsday, +1x Wipe Away, +1x IT) and I found the versatility of MD Wipe Away over Grip quite handy. Although I also aim the Wipe on targets the Grip could also handle most of the time, I'm still scared of those random maindecked Teegs or Meddling Mages - hell, even a True Believer could screw you up ^^

Anyway, whats the point in playing SB Wipe Away? In which case do you prefer a Wipe over a Rushing River/Grip/Echoing Truth?

[emidln]

I'm playing the same MD like your list posted above (except -1x Krosan Grip, -1x Doomsday, +1x Wipe Away, +1x IT) and I found the versatility of MD Wipe Away over Grip quite handy. Although I also aim the Wipe on targets the Grip could also handle most of the time, I'm still scared of those random maindecked Teegs or Meddling Mages - hell, even a True Believer could screw you up ^^

Anyway, whats the point in playing SB Wipe Away? In which case do you prefer a Wipe over a Rushing River/Grip/Echoing Truth?

Krosan Grip is better against anything that isn't Meddling Mage or Gaddock Teeg. People still play Gaddock Teeg because those cards are good against other combo decks. I play Wipe Away to make them bad against FT. I see far more CB Thresh than I see maindeck True Believer, MM, or Teeg.

[Jaiminho]

Against UWb Landstill, does anyone also side in Rushing Rivers to take care of Runed Halos? Halo can't name a setup spell, so it can only do so much to try to block your finishers. It's not as good as it seems, but it's a barrier, which can be summed up with counters, Pates, Mages and a minor clock (2 to 4 dmg/turn) to screw you up.

My current SB plans on UWb are: -1 Cabal, -1 IGG, -1 IT, -1 Grip, -1 Ponder; +2 River, +1 Helm, +1 Grapeshot, +1 Pact.

A third Serenity is all I can do? Meh, that sux. I think I'm going 3x Serenity, 1x Rebuild. Shit. I got pounded AGAIN last night. And, I'm going up to 18 lands. 5 basix. Can't decide on what to do:

Our best weapon against Dragon Stompy is their inconsistency. If they get their very good draws, such as turn 1 Chalice @ 1, turn 2 Moon, turn 3 big creature, we are pretty much screwed unless we can setup through Chalice @ 1 and land a Serenity through Moon. On the play, we are able to land Top on turn 1 more than 40% of the time (counting mullingans as increased chance), which will be able to get you out of that kind of situation. These scenarios won't happen any close to often, either their clock being a lame ass 2/2 creature or them not having the Moon+Chalice lock along with a big creature.

[emidln]

I've been boarding like this vs UWb Landstill:

-1 Ill-Gotten Gains
-1 Cruel Bargains
-1 Doomsday
-2 Ponder
-1 Cabal Ritual

+2 Extirpate
+1 Wipe Away
+1 Slaughter Pact
+1 Helm of Awakening
+1 Grapeshot

[emidln]

While testing out a list that includes SDT and SW, I ran into a variation of deadlock's stacks that I thought would be good to point out.

Cost: B or U floating, SW in hand, SDT in play, and 3 life (post-doomsday)
Result: 5 storm + Tendrils

[Top]
Lion's Eye Diamond
Meditate
Dark Ritual
Dark Ritual
Tendrils of Agony
[Bottom]

How it works:

Cycle Street Wraith into Lion's Eye Diamond. Play Lion's Eye Diamond. Sacrifice Lion's Eye Diamond for the color of mana you don't have floating. Activate Sensei's Divining Top to draw into Meditate. Play Meditate floating B drawing into Sensei's Divining Top, Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Tendrils of Agony. Play Dark Ritual, Dark Ritual, Sensei's Divining Top, Tendrils of Agony.

The cool thing is that his first stack can be made to work with anything that draws you a single card (without adding things to your library) if you play the cards in the order I suggest. Ponder, Brainstorm, Street Wraith, Rebuild, etc. The generalization is:

U or B floating + Cantrip in hand + resources to play cantrip + SDT in play

[Top]
LED
Meditate
Dark Rit
Dark Rit
Tendrils
[Bottom]

Cantrip into LED. Play LED. Break LED for the color of mana you don't have. Activate SDT to draw into Meditate. Play Meditate floating B to draw SDT, Dark Rit, Dark Rit, and Tendrils. Play Dark Rit x2, SDT, then Tendrils. The total cost should be one of these (U||B), (UU||UB), (2U||2B)*.

*I would note that Cycling Rebuild into this Stack is equivalent to just building Meditate, LED, LED, Petal, Tendrils if you have 2U (unless of course you sided out/RFG'd all of your Lotus Petals somehow). Additionally, this stack only works with Cruel Bargain/Infernal Contract if, and only if, you are floating B and not U.

Edit: I just built deadlock's Sensei's Top pile with my Dark Rituals extirpated. The trick is that something like LED, Meditate, LED, LED, Tendrils only requires 2 colorless if you have two tops in play. The actual color of the mana isn't relevant because all you need to do is spin a top once and play a top once. You lose out on one storm (only making 5 storm + Tendrils) with the pile by not having a black, but this might let you win the game under a weird situation like a Blood Moon in play and casting Doomsday with LED mana.

Cost: 2 Colorless, 2 Sensei's Divining Top in play
Result: 5 Storm + Tendrils

[Top]
Lion's Eye Diamond
Draw4
Lion's Eye Diamond
Lion's Eye Diamond
Tendrils of Agony
[Bottom]

How it Works:

Activate Sensei's Divining Top to draw Lion's Eye Diamond. Play Lion's Eye Diamond. Use one colorless to rearrange the top three cards of your library placing Draw4 on top. Activate LED for Draw4Mana and activate Sensei's Divining Top to draw Draw4. Play Draw4 floating one colorless drawing Sensei's Divining Top, Sensei's Divining Top, Lion's Eye Diamond, Lion's Eye Diamond. Use the remaining colorless to play a Sensei's Divining Top. Play both Lion's Eye Diamonds. Activate both Lion's Eye Diamonds for black. Activate Sensei's Divining Top to draw Tendrils of Agony. Play Tendrils of Agony with at least 5 storm.

[deadlock]

I appreciate the discussion about SB strategy's, which were my biggest weakness with this deck till now.

First off a small question concerning the uwb landstill sb plan, why side out the Infernal Contract? They dont pressure our life, so it can be cast as a setup spell, i would cut a Mystical Tutor instead.

Not that it is terrible important, but the other day i had an game against MWC(Mono White Controll), i am not quite sure if it is the best thing to sb towards asuming the control role here (and to side all MT). It may be viable to just race before they can setup a Chant on a stick or something like that.

For now my plan looks like this:
1 Helm (Runed Halo)
1 Grapshot (Runed Halo)
2 Grip (Scepter and Rule of Law)
2 Extirpate (Chant and Abeyance)
-2 Mystical Tutor (dont want too much card disadvantage)
-1 Cabal Rit (not need / they may side in Crypt)
-1 Doomsday (not needed that fast, dont want to see it in multiples)
-1 Igg (on the draw? - i won game one with this, but i still think its better sided out, recurred Chants suck)
-1 Ponder (needed room)

Third DD stack technology, generally i come up with good stacks, but i sometimes i have problems to do this 'fast'. I dont want to bore my opponent, its just difficult to get everything on the fly.

An uncommon stack, good if you are short on mana, but have some cards in hand:
Required: SDT in play, BS and two other cards in hand, mana to play BS

[Top]
Lotus Petal
Lion's Eye Diamond
Lion's Eye Diamond
Ill-Gotten Gains
Tendrils of Agony
[Bottom]

-Cast BS, draw into Petal, LED, LED, put back the two other cards.
-Cast Petal, LED, LED, crack Petal and use the top to put Igg on the top of your Library. Crack both LEDs for UUU and BBB
-Top into IGG and cast it, return BS, LED, LED.
-Cast LED, LED, BS, you can crack the LEDS here or..
-Draw and cast SDT (putting back the two cards again), crack LED here.
-Now you have B/U floating + 2*LED mana to spin the Top and put Tendrils on the top and draw into it.
Result: 9 Storm + Tendrils with only U needed besides Doomsday mana.

Note that i am slightly displeased to have 1 mana left after Tendrils

EDIT:
Additional sidenote concerning the Ponder Stack:
If you have an additional mana floating besides the U + Draw4Mana you can increase your storm count by 2, if you include an Igg instead of the Petal (quite obvious though), i just happened to me that i couldnt milk the regular Ponder for enough Storm.

[rsaunder]

I had an interesting situation when I was just messing around last night. I was a little off my game (a few beers and no sleep, i misbuilt a ponder stack...) but I ended up with a hand of like:

2 land in play
(in hand)
2 LED
2 D. Rit
1 bargain
1 Land
1 Mystical Tutor

Is there any way to win this turn (turn 2) with this? I thought there was by tutoring for DDay and the going draw4, but that only works if you pull a cantrip in the top 4 along with DDay, which I didn't.