I was actually hoping that you would quote me.Originally Posted by Nightmare
See, tormod's crypt cannot stop any further tarmogoyfs later in the game...
Extirpate gets rid of all other tarmogoyfs before they come out.
They are both primarily GY hate cards, but at least extirpate can serve other functions.
NO! NO! NO! Whatever spell you used to handle the first Blood Moon is what allows you to beat 8Moon dec. (And, of course, it is important to note that Extirpate can only "handle" 3 of those 7 more Moon effects).
? That's what I said.
I don't get what you mean by "NO! NO! NO!" Are you saying that Extirpate beats Blood Moon?
level?real sideboard cards like Sanctimony or COP: Red or Dystopia or Teferi's Response?
this is inaccurate.(which it does comparably to Crypt, probably a little worse, but comparable)
PR's point is that it would be better to just run more of whatever let you deal with the Goyf/Moon/Mountain Goat/whatever in the first place.Extirpate gets rid of all other tarmogoyfs before they come out.
When in doubt, mumble.
When in trouble, delegate.
I think an important thing to note is that you can run cards to deal with multiple things and Extirpate can kind of fill additional roles. For example,
3 Krosan Grip
3 Spellsnare
3 Smother
3 Extirpate
3 Tormod's Crypt/Leyline
In this case, against artifact/ench things you have Grip, but you also get 3 Extirpates which can go along side your Grips to combat your problems. Against combo decks, you can board in Spellsnares and Extirpates to counter a tutor or ritual and get rid of them (or stop an IGG loop). Against creature based decks, you can board in smothers and use that to kill some of their creatures and extirpate them, so you can smother other things as well. Against GY based decks (read: Ichorid) you could board in Crypts/Leylines and Extirpate to have that additional GY removal.
The point is that you could say "instead of boarding in 3 Grips, board in 4 Grips and 2 Naturalizes" but then you can't also say
"instead of boarding in 3 Smothers to instead board 4 smothers and 2 terrors", there isn't enough room for all of that. Extirpate can be more versatile and can complement your other sideboard cards.
(Note: I don't have an opinion about Extirpate, I'm merely offering some counter points and playing Devil's Advocate)
Whups! Sorry! I read "can't" as "can." I blame Octoberfest.
Why are people calling it a graveyard hate card? If it is going to be classified as one, it's bad. It's not meant for cremating one of their graveyard cards. That's a bonus. You are permanently getting rid of a card that can make or break games. Taking threats away from a low threat density deck is good right? That topdecked Tarmogoyf won't happen anymore because you got rid of them. Extirpate is meant for cards that can only be comfortably handled once. I can take 1 Deed explosion but not 2. I think that's a fair statement.
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Close.
Extirpate is designed to cripple Control decks that have very few kill conditions.
Why wouldn't you run Cranial Extraction, which can pre-emptively deal with these threats? Like, say, removing Tendrils of Agony before you get killed.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Because I would rather do something else with my 4 mana. Maybe we are all wrong here and Cranial Extraction is better everywhere that extirpate was good. I think the consensus would be that by the time you get to turn 5 they have probably already played the copy of the business spell.
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Rarely.Taking threats away from a low threat density deck is good right?
My deck would have to be pretty bad if I have six cards worse than Extirpate against an aggro deck.Against creature based decks, you can board in smothers and use that to kill some of their creatures and extirpate them, so you can smother other things as well.
When in doubt, mumble.
When in trouble, delegate.
What? How does that make any sense. Despite my fondness of sarcastic one liners I'm pretty sure this isn't very good argumentation. Why is it rarely good? If I'm playing Landstill that runs 8 Win conditions, I kill 1 Factory, Extirpate it, and now they only have 4 ways of killing me. How is that not a good thing? Enlighten me.
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As opposed to Extirpate, where you know they have to have played the business spell before you can use it.
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
I dunno, I guess I sort of assume that my opponent's decks aren't garbage and that they have multiple routes to victory. I'm not even being facetious; I can't really fathom playing a deck that is just all in like that so it never occurred to me that people did. Besides, don't they have random Tarmogoyfs to murder you with, too?If I'm playing Landstill that runs 8 Win conditions, I kill 1 Factory, Extirpate it, and now they only have 4 ways of killing me. How is that not a good thing? Enlighten me.
Even given that, when you take the above approach, you're basically saying "okay, this game is going to go very long and last dozens of turns while we try to cut off each other's routes to victory."
Is that really the way you want to fight a control deck? Really? Once they figure out your plan they can sculpt for inevitability, as well. And what if they, you know, have multiple ways to kill you? What if they have Counterbalance in their deck?
When in doubt, mumble.
When in trouble, delegate.
Could people give some example sideboards for Eva Green and xBxxx Landstill?
We seem to be going in circles. I said ages ago that I use Extirpate to save SB space primarily. I'm definitely open to sideboard alternatives, but right now the alternatives don't seem to cover all the bases or cover all the bases that I want to as effectively.
So...
A card that's not terrible against most decks, sorta, but is only actually really good against Life from the Loam, and which does nothing to make you win or prevent the opponent from winning except over a long game, and so is also a terrible sideboard choice when you need to win after having lost G1. Yeah. Um. Why is this card good, again? Why isn't Yixlid Jailer just pretty much always better?
For my confessions, they burned me with fire/
And found I was for endurance made
Easier to remove for non-Ichorid decks and relatively easy to Therapy in g3 for Ichorid decks.Why isn't Yixlid Jailer just pretty much always better?
When in doubt, mumble.
When in trouble, delegate.
After thinking about it more, I realize that Extirpate is a bad card. It's silly that I argued for it so much and now am changning but if put into perspective, it's horrible. It's not a good graveyard hate card and Cranial Extraction is plain better than it. The card is too situational and conditional. You all have coaxed me. I think the next big debate should be on which card is better graveyard hate, Jailer, Leyline, or Crypt.
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Extirpate is not a graveyard hate card. it can serve other purpose
T. Crypt is the best pure graveyard removal. Cost 0, cost 0 to activate.
Leyline : Requires to be in your starting hand (in other words, BAD)
Jailer : 2/1 that stops all graveyard ability. Not too bad against ichorid. However, the cards remain in the graveyard, which can be problematic if opponent deals with jailer
Depending on META, playing only crypt might be the best. A combination of Jailer and Crypt could be needed to fight against heavy ichorid meta. Leyline should never be considered as an option. If it sees any play, that means that the format is degenerate, which it isn't. Ichorid does not see a lot of play. T. Crypt is enough to handle the graveyard question
Robert
I really don't understand why people like Leyline so much. It's strong GY hate when it's in your STARTING hand, but you only see it like 40% of the time and drawing into it is a /laff later in the game.
It makes 4 cards in your deck completely dead draws the 60% of the time that you don't get it.
I still think that Extirpate is a strong contender among those four (Jailer, Extirpate, Crypt, Leyline). It's not like Ichorid laughs off an Extirpate and then keels over and dies to Crypt or something. I think it's stronger than Leyline and Jailer at least.
Last edited by Forbiddian; 10-10-2008 at 02:58 PM. Reason: Forgot to say "starting hand," good call.
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