See math on page 42. Do the math yourself if you don't believe me, but please don't make oversimplified, ignorant comments without at least reading the 3 hours of writing and statistics I did to prove otherwise. Diamond has an average of 2.85 blue cards in an opener, and Chrome has 3.22, and 45% of the time they picth one. Hardly a 2 blue cards vs 3 blue cards 'OMG my deck runs 3-4 more threats in a deck of 60!' Come on Taco, you've been here long enough - I didn't expect such a blindly biased comment from you.Originally Posted by Tacosnape
/subject
@ replacement for drakes: looter/mulldrifter/TfK will likely dig you into your better, (more availible such as efreet, faeries, and mage) threats, and will decrease the number of inferior spells you play in lieu of Drake. (aka a 3/3 for 3U) I would recommend a few more lands and 3-5 of the above cards. More professionally, I would simply recommend you suck it up and buy 4 drakes, as it is the best beater in the deck, and I am not alone in believing if you can't afford to play a deck, play a cheaper one optimally rather than playing (this) deck with sub-optimal cards. See 'budget' threads for more info.
tl;dr: you wouldn't run thresh with out goyf, you shouldnt run FS without drakes.
There's a huge difference between a deck that has 4-8 TOTAL threats with 8+ ways to dig/draw for them and a deck that has anywhere from 20-24 threats and very few ways to dig/draw for them. I don't see how you can even compare the two.
Spent around 7 hours playing against Thresh/Loam/Belcher and Ichorid, not on MWS.
It is garbage Im sorry but it is, I really don't care about your opening hand math. There is a decision making process that comes with imprinting on Chrome Mox that cannot be broken down into percentages. The deck has more land that doesn't pitch to Force of Will and floods draws. Seeing as how most games I only imprint once that still leaves 3 more threats in the deck that would otherwise be useless chaff in the form of Islands or some stupid cute yet utterly useless utility land. Ill take the blue cards over more land and pass on Engineered Explosives at [2] and some most likely terrible splash cards.
Personally if you want to talk about splashes make another thread. Im not sure what else we can really focus on here as there hasn't been much in the ways of innovation for this deck but the current course of discussion is pointless.
What about Lu Xun, Scholar General ? He has an excellent evasion (can only be blocked by creatures with horsemanship but can block creatures with or without horsemanship) and when he damages an opponent, you can draw a card.
His costs fit the mana-curve of the deck and equipment like the Swords are good with him.
My deck uses him in this way:
Land
10 Island
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
Creature
4 Sea Drake
4 Pestermite
4 Sower of Temptation
3 Lu Xun, Scholar General
4 Mulldrifter
Artifact
4 Chrome Mox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Sword of Light and Shadow
Instant
4 Psionic Blast
4 Force of Will
UU Casting Cost
Weak Sauce Power/Toughness
No thanks.
It was merely to illustrate how much weaker a deck is without the best creature in it. I am no means comparing Sea Drake in FS to Goyf in thresh, as the two decks play very differently, I am simply comparing the absence of the two and the impact of that absence on the rest of the deck.
Next you'll be suggesting how we should include thieving magpie in FS... oh, you are? Not outside of 10th edition limited or cube thanks.
Im sorry.
To be honest, you posted no data, no reason for us to run this creature over the other strong staples of Faerie Stompy.
Making a post saying "this is good, I play it with Sword of Fire and Ice" isn't a very strong argument. Especially when the creature in question happens to be complete ass via casting cost and body size compared to everything else we run.
So again, I apologize if you are offended.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ead.php?t=3468
Read and Learn.
Honestly, I would happily thresh running Werebears in place of Goyfs. Sure, you'll have a tough time against opposing decks running Goyfs. But Thresh was the best deck in the format even before Goyf was printed for a reason.
I would be more hesistant to build Fairie Stompy without Sea Drake though. Because IMO, Fairie Stompy is a very inconsistent deck. You'll lose more often with it than you do with Thresh (but when you win, you win big). And Sea Drake is half the reason to play the deck in the first place.
TL;DR: The only reason to play Fairie Stompy is because it's threats are so damn explosive. Why play the deck, if you can't play the very best threat in the deck.
There are flaws in your reasoning, Media314r8.
First, taking a 7.5 card hand for your math will give you misleading results. In Chalice Aggro, where you need many things to come together for an explosive hand, there is a huge difference between drawing seven and drawing eight. For example, in a seven card hand in Dragon Stompy, you have a ~34% chance of a turn one Moon on the play, but a ~50% chance on the draw. The more things you need to have a successful hand, the more important each draw becomes (and boy do we need a lot of things: 2 mana land, Chrome Mox, big beater, and an additional blue card.). On the play, and on the draw are too different to look at at the same time.
Your definition of an ideal hand isn't necessarily useful. What is more useful is to look at solid, keepable hands, which is what you'll be looking at most of the time. A hand of City, Chrome, Trinket, Pester, Mull, Sower, Island isn't ideal by your standards, but is one you would usually keep because it will usually get the job done.
The odds of getting a Drake/Serendib/cloud & equip + 2 mana land + Chrome Mox + blue card are ~12% otp and ~19% otd. The odds of that + FoW + blue card are ~1% otp and ~2% otd.
With Diamond and land instead of Chrome Mox and blue card, the odds of the above are ~12% and ~19%, virtually identical.
The problem is that the Chrome Mox build has more keepable hands and leads to better topdecking and flexibilty due to having more threats and Trinket targets. CM build also has 26 blue cards instead of 22 which helps you have an active FoW. Hands with 3 mana and lots of business are generally better than hands with lots of mana and a little business. That to me is the difference. With CM, you're imprinting a business spell, but you run more business spells. With Diamond, you discard a land, but you run more land.
It's not about the probability of getting some certain hand, it's about threat density.
"Casual sex, NO Touching/Licking/Sucking/Groping/Fondling/Riding/Tickling/Binding/Quitters/Italians. Play Fast, Be Polite, Have Fun."
Sure as hell sounds like fun.
Alright, I took second in the Salvation Legacy Tournament. Lost to IBA 1-2 in the finals - got done in by his singleton Sacred Mesa G2 and 3. I simply wasn't able to play the Needle before I had to play Chalice at 1, and my SoLS got answered G2 and 3. I also had to spend Forces on auxillary targets in G2 due to going second and not having Mox opener, and G3 I just never drew one. I'll write the full report soon enough in the "Reports"-section.
I've been having sucess with The Diamond list, and have not mulled to less than six in the past week or so. I'll throw together a Chrome list and see if it has any problems, but I don't think it's the MWS shuffler or the ALA update.
I read it. Diamond is still awful. Seriously.
I don't have to test Goblin Rock Sled to know it's awful in Vial Goblins.
In my defense, I'm not entirely positive G.E. Archmage is a great addition either. I'm just making the argument that it's better than Chronozoa. I personally think it might be better than Sower, but I haven't done enough testing to be sure.
Alright, the report here. All I can say is, it's awesome to have gamelogs to build the report from. Much easier than offline. So, what're you waiting for? Go ahead!
You're really comparing Goblin Rock Sledder to Mox Diamond. I was buying into your argument before you threw up that strawman. Look, Diamond might well be inferior to Chrome Mox. But dismissing it off hand by comparing it to crap cards isn't the right approach. I'm still waiting on getting my Mox Diamonds from ebay, but I'll give them a whirl in this deck as well once I do.
I had similar experiences on MWS.
I used to think that it was MWS that was notorious for giving horrible hands for Chrome Mox + 8 2 Mana Land Decks.
But recently, I've started pile shuffling because I've read that it's mathematically the best way to randomize your deck in the least amount of time.
And while pile shuffling has been great for most of my decks. Most Dragon Stompy and Fairie Stompy (my only Mox + 8 2 mana land decks) have been getting hands similar to the ones on MWS, nearly unkeepable.
So I'm curious, those of you who don't have much problem with the inconsistency in this deck, how are you shuffling it?
Nice report Eldariel and congratulations for 2nd place.
Are you going to substitute Misdirection for Glen Elendra Archmage in the sideboard after this tournament?
Recursions with Glen Elendra Archmage and Sword of Light and Shadow would be nice...
I said as much in the report. I'm probably going to make the change afterwards. I'm also trying to fit a third Archmage on the SB, but I'll have to dwell on the possible choices a bit more later (BEB being the most likely candidate to be dropped one of). I'm really happy with the present build, although I'll be adding the Sigil afterwards. I'll have to test more now that I'm done with the old tourneys.
How often do you guys find yourself wishing you were beating for more? Wishing the equipment gave a bigger buff? Sigil of Distinction is fetchable with Trinket Mage and seems to have immense damage potential, in return for no card advantage abilities. Also, free equip should help keep things moving along. Now, I've never played this deck, so I don't know how viable this suggestion is, if at all. Does this deck even end up producing enough mana for it to make much of a difference?
EDIT:
I started digging even further back, and eventually started to see some Sigils in lists. I'm assuming discussion on this topic has already been hashed out, so now I just want to know the verdict. Sigil of Distinction, yea or nay? How many and why?
Referring to the art on Stasis:
Sigil has been gone over in the last 5(?) pages. Definitely an auto-include as a 1-of. No more, no less. In my limited online testing, it's been insanely good as a tutor target to get those extra points of damage across.
I believe he was referring to a previous argument where Media314r8 fought with myself and TeenieBopper over replacing Mogg Fanatic with Goblin Rock Sledder in Vial Goblins. You can go do a search in the Vial Goblins thread if you need a good laugh.
Also for the 3rd time people here have logged some time with Mox Diamond, myself included. I spent a good 8 hours this past week/weekend playing around with it. It is garbage.
On a side note awesome report Eldariel!
Eldariel, what's this talk about 1x Cursed Scroll in the SB? Could you expound further?
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