[Deck] Mono-Blue Control (MUC)

[Tao]

The currently played Oona or Meloku are also "Sorceries". And like Morphling you won't play them without free mana so CTS is virtually even cheaper.

[donnhart]

I dont think that Call the Skybreaker fits in muc. You dont want to spend 7 mana to get a 5/5 flying vanilla. And you dont want to pay it second time if they bounce the token or do something else with it.
Once Morphling or Meloku is in play its easier to protect them, then find a land and tap 7 (!) mana to generate a new token.

Morph or Meluko can come turn 5 with FoW backup if needed, but you cant call your skybreaker before turn 10, waht makes it a really dead card in earlygame.

[Tao]

The hardcore control builds usually play a 2nd Win Condition beneath Morphling. Not all do this, but the majority. This discussion is about that slot. Right now they play Oona, Meloku or Rainbow Efreet but I say that Call the Skybreaker is superior to them in nearly each way.

And you dont want to pay it second time if they bounce the token or do something else with it.

Wrong. That's exactly what you want to do. Creating (virtual) card advantage. Trading their spells with your lands.

Once Morphling or Meloku is in play its easier to protect them, then find a land and tap 7 (!) mana to generate a new token.

I don't argue about Morphling, so keep him out of discussion.

When you start to protect Meloku or Oona you trade their dead cards with your best cards, hardcounters in a hope of an easy win after untapping. Sometimes it destroys them (Removal, Force, they have no relevant play, you untap and make 6 Token ftw), sometimes it destroys you (EoT Removal- Force, 2nd Removal Meloku dead, they untap and resolve whatever they want because you have no FoW). That's gambling.

Morph or Meluko can come turn 5 with FoW backup if needed, but you cant call your skybreaker before turn 10, waht makes it a really dead card in earlygame.

Playing Morphling on turn 5 is usually an act of desperation. In the vast majority of your games 6 Mana is the minimum you want to have in play so you can at least counter one Sword/Bolt and from 6 to 7 Mana is most times just one turn with a drawing deck like MUC.

[Illissius]

If inevitability is the key criterion, Call the Skybreaker is an intriguing idea (and one I must admit I've also thought of, if not for this deck). Still, it is slow as hell. Cards like Rainbow Efreet have at least some utility in the early (okay, mid) game. And though you do keep extra mana open for Efreet, Morphling, and friends when you play them, you use that mana to counter your opponent's attempts to kill your creature and keep it in play, so it's actually doing something; whereas with Call the Skybreaker in the same situation, your only option is paying another seven mana next turn. But yeah, it probably wins the contest for hardest to permanently deal with.

[Tao]

The only purpose of running a different threat as a 3rd win condition IS inevitability. If you wanted nothing but a 3rd threat in the deck then you should just play a 3rd Morphling.

[Bahamuth]

The only purpose of running a different threat as a 3rd win condition IS inevitability. If you wanted nothing but a 3rd threat in the deck then you should just play a 3rd Morphling.

Morphling still dies to Needle and Deed. Therefore, I play a Rainbow Efreet, which I think is by far the best option.

[frogboy]

You dont want to spend 7 mana to get a 5/5 flying vanilla.

Like, sure, but most decks have a hard time beating "dragon go" every turn.

[Jason]

Morphling still dies to Needle and Deed. Therefore, I play a Rainbow Efreet, which I think is by far the best option.

Pretty sure Efreet gets hurt by Needle. I think you meant Wrath and Deed. I agree Rainbow Efreet is probably the best bet because of the fact it is the hardest to deal with. Needle and Humility are all that mess with the guy. Morphling or Meloku get hurt by Wrath, Deed, Needle or Humility. I'm going to have to say I like Rainbow Efreet as the next best creature after Morphling.

Saying this, I do find it interesting to bring up Call the Skybreaker. The creature generated dies to spot removal and mass removal but it can keep coming back. I don't think it is the best idea because it costs too much but it is certainly worth a try if you feel Rainbow Efreet or Meloku isn't working well for you.

The main problem I would see with this is I prefer Relic in my sideboard over Crypt because it replaces itself by drawing a card and it makes Tarmogoyf un-fat. Relic + Call the Skybreaker obviously won't work together well. That can easily be changed by using Crypt but I personally do think Relic is better.

[Shawon]

Also, the retrace cost is nothing to scoff at.

I think Call the Skybreaker isn't a bad card in MUC albeit it is terribly slow, but with its retrace cost and such, I just don't think it's worth the slots in MUC.

[Shimster]

I vote for Call the Skybreaker, as it has got a nice synergie with Fact or Fiction.

Did you ever revealed a pile of 4 Islands + 1 Morphling/Efreet/Oona/Meloku/Guile/whatever? Your opponent is obviously going to make a 4 to 1 split. With Call the Skybreaker, you can just go for the Islands.

[Zach Tartell]

I vote for Call the Skybreaker, as it has got a nice synergie with Fact or Fiction.

Did you ever revealed a pile of 4 Islands + 1 Morphling/Efreet/Oona/Meloku/Guile/whatever? Your opponent is obviously going to make a 4 to 1 split. With Call the Skybreaker, you can just go for the Islands.

...and then tap out on your turn to get a measly 5/5 flier? I don't know if MUC has changed ridiculously since I last looked at this thread, but I've got to say - Call sounds like a terrible idea.

Oona is probably the best "win fast" way to do it - even if she gets swords'd she'll still leave a couple guys out (and, remember, if you allow removal to resolve on your win condition in a deck that plays at least 8 hard counters you need to practice more).

[Brehn]

...and then tap out on your turn to get a measly 5/5 flier? I don't know if MUC has changed ridiculously since I last looked at this thread, but I've got to say - Call sounds like a terrible idea.

Why?

It's absolutely comparable to Meloku or Oona, for which you tap out to get a measly 5/5 or 2/4 flier. And no, Oona doesn't leave a couple of guys out if she gets sworded. If you let Swords on your win condition resolve more than one turn after you've played it, you
a) are winning anyway
b) are losing anyway
c) have made a mistake

And no, Call the Skybreaker doesn't make you vulnerable to graveyard hate. If the opponent is boarding in hate - great! He has fewer relevant spells in his deck now. If he doesn't - great! He has no way to stop you from producing a token every 2-3 turns once you draw CtS. This is a win-win situation. It turns his Swords to Plowshares into a relevant spell? Gaining 5 life without losing a wincon isn't bad at all for a control deck. There are enough situations where I'd love to draw a Renewed Faith out of nowhere, even if it costed more than 3 mana.

Plus:
- It solves the Fact or Fiction into wincon-issue to a certain extent.
- this:

When you start to protect Meloku or Oona you trade their dead cards with your best cards, hardcounters in a hope of an easy win after untapping.

--> CtS sounds like a good inclusion. Having played 1 Morphling, 1 Meloku, 1 Efreet, I'll try switching the Efreet with CtS now. But I'm not sure - maybe it's correct to switch Meloku. Testing will tell.

[Hoojo]

I'm intrigued by Call the Skybreaker as its a threat that doesn't require constant protection; yes, you will most likely tap out to bring him in, but you don't have to hold counters or keep mana open in case of Swords to Plowshares and co. I'd say its worth testing.

[Bahamuth]

I'm intrigued by Call the Skybreaker as its a threat that doesn't require constant protection; yes, you will most likely tap out to bring him in, but you don't have to hold counters or keep mana open in case of Swords to Plowshares and co. I'd say its worth testing.

Agreed. I'm probably going to test it as well.

By the way, I don't think anyone mentioned the list that Top 8'ed ad The Source tournament. Here it is:

Richard Zuleg: Mono-Blue Control

4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
3 Spell Snare
4 Propaganda
4 Back to Basics
3 Vedalken Shackles
4 Powder Keg
2 Morphling
1 Rainbow Effreet
3 Impulse
4 Fact or Fiction
24 Island

SB:
4 Negate
1 Spell Snare
1 Disrupt
3 Relic of Progentius
4 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
1 Decleration of Naught

Does anyone have an idea what the Negates are there for? The list seemssolid, but the sideboard is really pretty random....

[Arsenal]

List seems pretty standard, sideboard seems kinda "meh", but I too would like to hear the reasoning behind Negate. 1U seems kinda slow versus combo, as Disrupt and/or Misdirection would seem to be a better choice. If Negate wasn't there for the combo matchup, perhaps for the control matchup? But even then, I'd probably want Mana Leak in there (nice synergy with Propaganda & B2B versus certain decks). And Negate does little versus aggro, so...

[Captain Hammer]

I would like to hear the reasoning behind playing Impulse over Ancestral Visions actually.

The list looks identical to my list except for that one change.

To me, Impulse vs. Visions isn't even close. Impulse gives you no actual card advantage. This deck thrives completely off of card advantage.

[Bahamuth]

This deck thrives completely off of card advantage.

I'd disagree. This deck thrives more off dropping bombs. Propaganda, Back to Basics and Shackles are both most essential to this deck. The only matchup where the cardadvantage is the thing this deck does thrive on, is in a control mirror, but even then Back to Basics might be just as good as drawing 3 random cards (4 turns later).

EDIT: Call The Skybreak is also pretty sick against control. Impulse is way better at finding it.

[Mordel]

The reasoning for impulse over visions is probably him wantin to dig for b2b, shackles and keg more than sheer card advantage. I was playing with three AV by mistake for a while and it was fucking horrible. I prefer visions, but I understand why someone might run impulse over it.

Retrace on Call seems like the biggest strike against it. I am not impressed by it between that and a whopping seven. I honestly do not see MUC's problem of needing more finishers as the reason it is not a DTB at the moment. I think what is more suspect for it is not putting out the sheer numbers like landstill does. Run call as a single slot if you have room, I run forbid, so really in principle I see nothing wrong with call.

Pithing needle on fruity efreet/morphling is fucking bad argument though: early on(the most likely time an opponent will resolve a needle), you have the whole goddamned game to draw a keg and sit on it for a single turn. Also, who on earth is playin a needle versus MUC and naming a kill card, rather than keg or shackles? If needle is resolving because you don't have FoW and you tapped out to play your kill creatures. Deed should not be hitting play either when you are in kill mode. MUC is one of the few decks that I play where the end game for it is generally the same in any match: your opponent is out of gas and you put a creature down and let it protect itself for a few turns and only counter the severe stuff.

Oona is fucking horribad though. Seriously. The odd person that places and has one instead of an efreet probably wasn't able to find and efreet or something because six mana for a more or less vanilla 5/5 is absurd. The milling ability is so incredibly subpar that...I was going to say words fail me, but I found some: it will get you several two 1/1's for four mana on average...neat. The milling ability is situationally useful against top, but here's the kicker: if you are playing your six mana kill card while your opponent has a CB/CDT down, chances are you don't really give a shit about it anymore. I like to cast my kill creature with at around half of my mana still open as a rule almost and the difference between an Efreet and Oona is four turns or so. I don't mind playing a slow deck, but if I am going to wait those turns, I will not be doing so because I want to protect my 5/5 flier with a shitty mill/token ability with cards in my hand if I can avoid it.

For the sake of argument, lets take a fish scenario and spread the numbers out for efreet and Oona, lets also assume that we only need to do eighteen points because this is legacy:

Efreet comes out on the fourth turn:
3+3+3+3+3+3=eighteen damage over six turns and death on the tenth turn for a non-existant opponent.

Oona comes out on the sixth turn, lets also assume that you are getting a token a turn:

5+6+7=nineteen damage on the ninth turn.

You have one turn's difference in time on the ol' death by counter-wall clock and a extremely vulnerable creature that will leave a few easy to deal with 1/1 fliers in its wake when it dies. PASS.

I have similar feelings about Meloku, the only difference is that I need to skip/reverse land drops to make the clock pick up with him/her. I like card advantage, but I am not such a card advantage enthusiast that I get excited by the fact that I have seven cards in my hand even though my opponent knows that at least three of them are land. Someone once argued that with me. The only compelling argument I have seen for Meloku is that she feeds my very emotionally attached singleton forbid and that had me hazy for a second and then I snapped back to earth and realized that I probably wouldn't need that singleton forbid as much if a morphling or floppy-tits efreet* was on the table.

Both Oona and Meloku seem strictly inferior to Call of the Skybreaker, so if it works as a third kill card, don't call me a hater! I would even venture to say that I would run call over either of the two mentioned.



*I have about ten years worth of nicknames for efreet

[Arne]

When you play oona on the sixth turn, you won't be able to put a token out ;)

[Julian23]

and, remember, if you allow removal to resolve on your win condition in a deck that plays at least 8 hard counters you need to practice more

or just play Morphling / Efreet