[Deck] Armageddon Stax

[_erbs_]

f|i[p] and i where in that same tournament but i finished with a 2-3 record, the meta was black - discard/control/aggro & affinity a few combos which f|i[p] had played against lucky dude hahaha joke f|i[p].

1st or 2nd turn thoughtsize and extirpate hurts alot and almost cripples the decks defenses.

well just for me but having 2-3 exalted angel / battlegrace angel / or any creatures would be great than having magus and mishra alone.

[Skeggi]

It is quite hard to play vs. single creatures with equipment as they get around ghostly prison.

The idea of Ajani is that you keep tapping this creature until Ajani hits 7 Loyalty and then blows all his land; then Ghostly Prison is effective . Still, 9th place is not that bad .

Round 1 Angel stompy
G1
I draw 7, I draw 5 lands 2 armageddons, I have no Idea why I didnt mulligan here, I thought it was not such a bad match up...I draw into more lands... I lose.

Stompy decks in general I always find a tough match because they don't have problems with Chalice or Trinisphere, and use double lands and Moxes themselves, so they also recover from an Armageddon pretty fast. They also only need 1 creature to seal the deal and are therefor not hindered that much by Ghostly Prison.

G3
I start with a god hand, and since I am starting, I put down chalice for zero, put down city of traitors, and then chalice for 1. He smiles and thinks he is doomed but maybe he can still go around it. He plays a land then passes. Next turn I drop a trinisphere. He scoops.

I think he hoped he could have Echoing Truthed your Chalices. When Trinisphere dropped, it wouldn't matter . Well done .

Pithing needle is quite important to the deck, defense grids could probably be cut to 2.

I think you're right about Pithing Needle though, it's awesome. So much better than Suppression Field that also screws your Wastelands and Mishra's Factories. If you're keeping the red splash you may want to consider Boil (more and more decks these days play blue). It's more versatile than Defense Grid, and really fits the gameplan (Trinisphere + Defense Grid =/= combo).

It seems you have had quite some mana problems. What I usually do is shuffle extensively, after that I check if the mana is nicely spread throughout the deck. If it's still all piled up I shuffle some more extensively. If it looks ok, I shuffle a bit and hand my deck to my opponent so he/she can cut it. In general this avoids getting screwed or flooded. But sometimes I'm lazy and I forget, and then I can end up being screwed or flooded.

@Lammina: In aggro meta's I've found Windborn Muse to be shot down at first sight, but she's worth a try at least. If your meta indeed is so insanely aggro, you may indeed want to conside Wrath of God; however I use Powder Kegs myself.

[f|i[p]]

@ skeggi

9th place isn't that bad, but there were a few matches where I think I could have won if I wasn't mana screwed.. Hahaha you just don't get to get over those matches or well I may call it play mistake since I probably should have made sure that my cards were shuffled very well.. But hence it was still fun to play..

Yes it will seem that stompy variants are a problem to this deck, specially those that rely on flying creatures...

P.Needles are very important in the sideboard indeed. S. fields are good for delaying but,P. needles would have just done so much better than S. field. I may replace S. fields entirely.

As for the red splash, I was actually looking to sideboard boil, but I did the splash last minute and borrowed some ajani's and tried to look for some boil's which I thought I had, but didn't eventually.

Not I'm not sure what the red splash had to offer, yet.. and I'm not convinced but it was quite good to be slightly different from other stax lists .. Maybe I'll try a different color next time around...I'm still crossing my fingers for Wb stax...

[Mordel]

I think the red splash is worth a longer look than just splashing for vengeants and then leaving it at that...then again I just tried to think of good red cards to maybe include and drew a blank.

On the topic of prisons versus ensnaring bridges: I always thought that allowing your opponent to make decisions in many cases allows for more errors to be made on their part and greater advantage than forcing their hand. Needless to say though something is missing from 'geddon stax because while the deck seems to show up a decent amount according to deckcheck anyway and puts out commendable finishes, but not nearly enough first places, something needs to be fixed. Maybe some sort of splash is what is needed. Bridge could be the answer too maybe, but it seems like too simple of a solution.

I noticed that a list that placed sixth runs two Elspeths. Did he do up a report anywhere?

[DeathScythe]

I noticed that a list that placed sixth runs two Elspeths. Did he do up a report anywhere?

http://mtgthesource.com/forums/showp...&postcount=930
lost track on my sideboarding though, shouldn't have touched the beer...

[Mordel]

Heh, thanks for the link. I already read that report, but I must have had a few drinks when I read it or something because I failed to connect the dots.

Liquor and decks that require patience don't combine well in my experience either, though stimulants do strangely enough...weird.

[f|i[p]]

A splash may always be worth testing all the time. I'm not sure, I seem to be always looking for a more lock oriented but at the same time be able to finish the games in time.

As for ensnaring bridge, it has its pro's and con's. You'll have to sacrifice the early game for a better late game. It will give you problems with goblins maybe even elves as well as empty the warrens . With it you will also be more vulnerable to artifact hate, since most red decks always have a shattering spree in the sideboard. One more thing I don't like about bridge is that you are kinda forced to over commit with your hand. Means you'll have to put everything down as fast as you can.

Ghostly will save you from swarm aggro but not from singleton creatures.

I still think ghostly prison is a safer way to go about it still...but It can also be a metagame call.

[Skeggi]

At the Dutch Championships someone played a Stax build with Elspeth + Humility. Apparently that worked good (he didn't top8 though). I'll try and get a hand on the list.

[Eldariel]

The player seems to have been Mr. Sebastiaan or something to that effect. Dr.Doom here posted his tournament report in the FS thread and seemed to have played against Elspeth Geddon Stax round 1.

[Skeggi]

No, the player with the deck I'm referring to is called Marcel I think.

Edit: I checked, the player was Marcel Gelissen and had an Elspeth-Humility-Replenish build. Seems very interesting. I still need to get a decklist...

[Mordel]

That list sounds pretty interesting based on that description for sure.

With the whole Bridge versus Prison thing, I don't really think it is an all or nothing sort of situation. Obviously ring has more applications than just stopping creatures, but for anecdotal purposes: a lot of guys run three of them...drop them for bridges and you are running bridges and prisons, which is absolute overkill, but still, this will make the deck in some matches have effectively six to eight prisons and in others you will have some fodder for stacks in the worst case scenario.

I wasn't really ever considering removing prisons. The problem this archetype might be facing is enthusiasts's resistance to change. Time and testing will tell I suppose.

[_erbs_]

Hello,
Yesterday ive played against a dragon stompy deck, and i can't seem to win, does anybody has hard time winning against deck it while using geddonstax ?

If you don't draw anyspot removal cards like oblivion ring double strike creatures like rakdos pit dragon kills everything in its path and with no way to stop krosan grip oblivion ring is almost no use.


Does geddonstax have another ways to deal with decks that also uses the following cards:
- Mox Diamond / Chrome Mox
- Ancient Tomb / City of Traitors / Crystal Vein
- Trinishpere
- Chalice of the Void
- Decks that has a mana curve of 3 up that uses mana accelerants

thanks

[dragzz]

It's really difficult for Armageddon Stax to handle single threats with huge churizos (Dreadnoughts, Tombstalkers, Goyfs and Dragons).

Dragon Stompy is particularly difficult because we have no lockpiece available that would be able to counter their strategy, our most common turn 1 play is useless against them and the only solution that we currently have is Oblivion Ring.

Your only chance is to try and stop early ass crackers (ie. Rakdos, Arcslogger, Raiders) via O-Ring or Chalice for 0. If your running Ajani or Elspeth they could probably prevent Rakdos and Raiders from doing lethal damage. Arcslogger on the other hand can only be handle by O-Ring. So what you need to do is aggressively mulligan for the right cards. If you'll be able to handle early threats then there is a good chance that you'll be able to establish board control. DStompy players usually exhaust their hands in the first few turns, so you need to concentrate on surviving those turns.

BTW, your talking about DStompy with a green splash?

[_erbs_]

It's really difficult for Armageddon Stax to handle single threats with huge churizos (Dreadnoughts, Tombstalkers, Goyfs and Dragons).

Dragon Stompy is particularly difficult because we have no lockpiece available that would be able to counter their strategy, our most common turn 1 play is useless against them and the only solution that we currently have is Oblivion Ring.

Your only chance is to try and stop early ass crackers (ie. Rakdos, Arcslogger, Raiders) via O-Ring or Chalice for 0. If your running Ajani or Elspeth they could probably prevent Rakdos and Raiders from doing lethal damage. Arcslogger on the other hand can only be handle by O-Ring. So what you need to do is aggressively mulligan for the right cards. If you'll be able to handle early threats then there is a good chance that you'll be able to establish board control. DStompy players usually exhaust their hands in the first few turns, so you need to concentrate on surviving those turns.

BTW, your talking about DStompy with a green splash?

yes, DStompy with a light splash of green for krosan grip and primal fury
other decks that utilizies ancient tomb and city of traitors i find it hard to beat them maybe thats why i seldom win against angel stompy

[Skeggi]

I've played a fair share against Dragon Stompy, it's one of my teammate's favourite deck. I've also won a fair share. The key is to side out all Trinispheres and Chalices. You really don't need them in this MU. You should side in anything that could help; Tabernacle if you have it, Suppression Field (against Jitte and Rakdos Pit Dragon), Oblivion Rings, Exalted Angels, even Moats help. Whatever you have it's probably better than Trinisphere or Chalice.

One other thing I've found out about the Humility-Elspeth-Replenish build: it's creatureless. But I guess that was to be expected with Humility .

[f|i[p]]

I never played against dragon stompy players so I really wouldn't have an idea. Although in all match ups.. single pumped up creature decks; you would like an ideal hand, meaning you would want to establish a real fast lock via smokestack or delay the game enough for you to establish board control. Other than that it will be hard quite hard to win because there is always a way around ghostly prison...

I'm actually very interested in the build with humility in it, I want to focus more on the lock, meaning taking off the angels and focusing on prison instead...Meaning really serving the decks main purpose which is prison...

The only problem I find in focusing on the lock is finishing on time...

[Skeggi]

I still haven't recieved Marcel's list, but I have contacted him via e-mail. If I were to make a Humility-Elspeth-Replenish build it would look something like this:

Dutch Stax (I feel it branches out from the Armageddon Stax archetype and creates a new one; since I basically stole the concept from a fellow Dutchman, I guess Dutch Stax would be most politically correct )

Planeswalkers
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Enchantments
3 Humility
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Ghostly Prison

Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
2 Smokestack
4 Mox Diamond
4 Crucible of Worlds

Sorceries
4 Armageddon
1 Ravages of War
1 Replenish

Lands
3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Kor Haven
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Plateau
7 Plains

Obviously, this deck would have extra vulnerability versus Krosan Grip and Gaddock Teeg; a possible sideboard could look like this:

Sideboard
3 Pithing Needle
4 Powder Keg (possible Teeg Killer)
2 Boil
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Replenish (post Grip reviver)

A slightly different build:
Dutch Stax (with Moats)

Planeswalkers
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant

Enchantments
3 Moat
3 Humility
4 Oblivion Ring

Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
3 Smokestack
4 Mox Diamond
4 Crucible of Worlds

Sorceries
4 Armageddon
1 Ravages of War
1 Replenish

Lands
3 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
1 Kor Haven
3 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Plateau
7 Plains

Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Powder Keg (possible Teeg Killer)
3 Boil
2 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
2 Replenish (post Grip reviver)

Ideas? Please shoot

[Arsenal]

Would Hanna's Custody be a decent SB card? I mean, I know it doesn't protect your enchantments, but it's the right casting cost, 2W, and it protects the majority of your permanents from removal. Thoughts? Maybe as a 2-of.

[Silverdragon]

Hanna's Custody is not worth it because a) you have to get to a point where you have a decent board full of artifacts and your opponent has actually drawn a removal to make it useful at all, b) it doesn't protect you from sweepers like Pernicious Deed and c) what do you take out?

[Arsenal]

Hanna's Custody isn't required to be played after you've already unloaded your artifacts. Hanna's Custody can be played before you've played any artifacts. It would be there to combat your opponent's sideboard hate of Grips, Sprees, R&R, etc... Just a thought. Having a DS player be able to R&R away two of your best artifacts sucks.