[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

[Omega]

Just wanted to reply to this...
"I don't think it's necessary to put your opponent on a clock in order for Standstill to be effective. If they're not breaking your Standstill, then you get to drop lands and move into the midgame. You should benefit more from that than your opponent does. If not, then you probably shouldn't have played the Standstill in the first place."

The whole point of standstill is to abuse it via manland if opponent refuse to break it or is stupid enough to not break it.

I would definately have 4 manland in a deck with 4 standstill. Not putting pressure = opponent might not break standstill.
I played many games in tournament where i dropped a turn 2 standstill without knowing what my opponent was playing. Sometimes its game breaking (im getting 3 cards), sometimes, its game screwing. The average game breaking is higher, so im sticking to this strategy. Having more manland allows you to play consistenly the turn 2 landstill while not knowing what the opponent play. If he happens to play a landstill-like deck, you have your manlands to counter his and you usually win the stall because you have wasteland. Some standstill don't run that many copies of wasteland ..

Do you people side out Standstill when you are fighting against Landstill? I felt that it is hard to abuse standstill in that specific matchup. Having relevant cards might help more. Like Red Blast

Robert

[URABAHN]

Just wanted to reply to this...
"I don't think it's necessary to put your opponent on a clock in order for Standstill to be effective. If they're not breaking your Standstill, then you get to drop lands and move into the midgame. You should benefit more from that than your opponent does. If not, then you probably shouldn't have played the Standstill in the first place."

The whole point of standstill is to abuse it via manland if opponent refuse to break it or is stupid enough to not break it.

I would definately have 4 manland in a deck with 4 standstill. Not putting pressure = opponent might not break standstill.
I played many games in tournament where i dropped a turn 2 standstill without knowing what my opponent was playing. Sometimes its game breaking (im getting 3 cards), sometimes, its game screwing. The average game breaking is higher, so im sticking to this strategy. Having more manland allows you to play consistenly the turn 2 landstill while not knowing what the opponent play. If he happens to play a landstill-like deck, you have your manlands to counter his and you usually win the stall because you have wasteland. Some standstill don't run that many copies of wasteland ..

Do you people side out Standstill when you are fighting against Landstill? I felt that it is hard to abuse standstill in that specific matchup. Having relevant cards might help more. Like Red Blast

Robert

I absolutely side out Standstill against decks playing Standstill. Unless you know what's in your opponent's hand, you may find yourself in a terrible position after playing your Standstill. I've played a lot of BHWC Landstill and tested Dreadstill mirrors against Deep6er and most of the time whenever someone plays a Standstill, it's the wrong time. There are a few times where your hand looks amazing to play Standstill, for instance, maybe you've got plenty of colored land in play, and a Mishra's and Wasteland in hand and you know there's another Mishra's in the top of your library because you've a SDT in play, but your opponent has a better hand or draws better. You're better off siding out at least 3 Standstill for something better.

[Rood]

Exactly what URABAHN said. I always board all four Standstills against any mirror variant and/or Landstill builds. It's too risky IMO and you're much better off running a few more relevant spells from the board.

[e=mc^2]

I'm going to take a pretty standard Ur list to a tournament in 2 weeks.

4x Nought
4x Trinket Mage

4x FoW
4x Brainstorm
4x Stifle
4x Standstill
3x Daze
3x Spellsnare
3x Counterbalence
2x Top
2x EE
2x Trickbind

5x Island
4x Factory
4x Flooded Strand
3x Wasteland
2x Polluted Delta
2x Volcanic Island
1x Academy Ruins

3x BEB
3x REB
3x Crypt
2x Firespout
2x Magus of the Moon
1x Relic
1x Needle

I would like to include some Wipe Away's in the board to deal with resolved Goyfs or Counterbalence, but I'm not sure what to cut. If I cut Firespout I'm not sure if EE alone can deal with goblins. Also I'm not sure if Needle is necesary. The most likely targets seem to be Grindestone or Aether Vial, and I don't see those that much. Either way I think one Crypt will be cut. 3 graveyard hate cards should be enough. Comments would be helpful. Thanks.

[_erbs_]

@Roodmistah
Sorry if im kinda hard headed its been so long like 5-6 years since i played blue thats why im so unsure of different things. Im greatful for the tips your giving.

@Omega
Thanks for tip.

_____________________________________________________________

I changed my decklist and looks like this right now but im having problems with the following:
1. board control
2. casting counter balance due to the lack of another source
3. casting stp is hard aswell bec i sometimes don't get any sources
4. is wasteland really a must ? would having more man lands in place of it better like faerie conclave or forbidding watch tower as it could produce colored mana aswell
5. depending on dreadnought alone is hard especially when it gets extirpate or destoryed by tons of artifact & creature hate.
6. Is painter stone or tarmogoyf be a good alternate win con or is meddling mage better ?


Lands
4 flooded strand
4 tundra
3 mishra's factory
2 wasteland
3 island
2 plains
1 accademy ruins
19

Win Con
3 trinket mage
3 phyrexian dreadnought
2 painter servant
2 grind stone
10

Spells
4 swords to plowshares
2 powder keg
3 brainstorm
1 ponder
4 force of will
3 daze
1 spell snare
1 mana leak
3 standstill
2 sensei's divinning top
3 counter balance
4 stifle
31


I added the painter stone im my current list it has its pros and cons vs tarmo, but i do want about it i can kill my opponent in 1 turn. But what i hate about it is that its another 2 card combo, both my win conditions are 2 card combo which kinda suck but i don't know what to do.

Thanks in advance for the help.

[whienot]

Also I'm not sure if Needle is necesary.

Keep the Needle. I don't know your meta, but Engineered Explosives and Pernicious Deed are troublesome targets.

@_erbs_ Wasteland + Daze aren't the best options to compliment Painter/Stone. You really don't want to put yourself back land drops when trying to grind someone out (especially with 19 land).

Keep them if you want to focus on the 12/12. The tempo gain is amazing with the big guy in play. I would drop them if I wanted to focus on the Painter combo, and play nought as a secondary kill.

[J.V.]

Keep the Needle. I don't know your meta, but Engineered Explosives and Pernicious Deed are troublesome targets.

Also, randomly neutering Survival is really fun.

[e=mc^2]

Keep the Needle. I don't know your meta, but Engineered Explosives and Pernicious Deed are troublesome targets.

Do you run Firespout? If you don't do you have any issues with the Goblins MU?

[whienot]

Do you run Firespout? If you don't do you have any issues with the Goblins MU?

I do run Firespout, though Goblins is winnable without it. If Gobs is your main aggro concern, I think Pyroclasm is better. They have the ability to keep you off 3 mana (Waste/Port). The spout shines against Slivers and Zoo, will occasionally kill a Painter's Servant, and is just funny against Faerie Stompy.

[e=mc^2]

I do run Firespout, though Goblins is winnable without it. If Gobs is your main aggro concern, I think Pyroclasm is better. They have the ability to keep you off 3 mana (Waste/Port). The spout shines against Slivers and Zoo, will occasionally kill a Painter's Servant, and is just funny against Faerie Stompy.

I'm not sure which aggro deck I will face most or even if I am most worried about aggro. I haven't had enough aggro MU's to know how the deck preforms without a red sweeper. I do know that Magus can wreck decks which run 0 or close to 0 non-basics, like Team America, Tombstone, or 3c Threshold. In the end it may be more important to have something against those decks than have a sweeper against agro decks.

[Illissius]

Exactly what URABAHN said. I always board all four Standstills against any mirror variant and/or Landstill builds. It's too risky IMO and you're much better off running a few more relevant spells from the board.

Just to back this up with some theorycraft, in a Standstill mirror, both players' Standstills turn to shit. One player is going to have stronger Standstills than the other, sure -- but even if your Standstills are only 60%* shit to the opponents' 70%, say, that still leaves your Standstills being in much larger part shit than your other cards, so it's good sense to board them out for other cards which suck less. Standstill is strong against other decks because it is something like 100% stronger than the opponents' Standstill would be (which they, hence, do not play); in the mirror, a 10% advantage or frequently less is not enough to make it an effective card.

* Yeah, not very quantifiable**. Numbers for illustrative purposes only.

** Actually, I guess you could quantify the strength of a Standstill by what percentage of the time it is your opponent who has to break it. This can't be used to compare the shit-quotient of Standstill relative to your other cards, though.

[Nihil Credo]

Just to back this up with some theorycraft, in a Standstill mirror, both players' Standstills turn to shit.

I pretty much agree. The exception is when you play a deck with Crucible, Planeswalkers or especially DoJ against one that doesn't have them; in that case, assuming I don't have a sideboard full of awesomeness, I keep in ~2 Standstills as a conditional late-game card drawing spell (that mostly pitches to FoW before turn 5-6).

[whienot]

I do know that Magus can wreck decks which run 0 or close to 0 non-basics, like Team America, Tombstone, or 3c Threshold.

If this is your meta, compliment the Magus with bounce. It's very satisfying to drop Magus then Echoing Truth/Wipe Away their turn 2/3 threat.

[Xero_2285]

Has anyone tested Pongify in the SB as a 1 U removal spell for things like Goyf or Tombstalker? They get a 3/3 out of it but that's better than a 5/5 flyer that we usually can't do anything about unless we have Echoing Truth. Just a thought.

Edit: Or is this just a bad idea?

[BKclassic]

Has anyone tested Pongify in the SB as a 1 U removal spell for things like Goyf or Tombstalker? They get a 3/3 out of it but that's better than a 5/5 flyer that we usually can't do anything about unless we have Echoing Truth. Just a thought.

Edit: Or is this just a bad idea?

Snakeform seems objectively better to me than Pongify in a build with Tarmogoyf. Factory can survive blocking the Snake, and its a 2 for 1. And if it isn't going to work, at least it cantrips or hits 3 drops with Counterbalance. But I still can't justify cutting Spell Snare from the deck. I honestly don't know you guys who run Krosan Grip in the Spell Snare slot do it.

[Xero_2285]

No, never cut Spell Snare ,imo. Just Pongify in the SB when needed, kind of like StP or something. Also we can kill the 3/3's with Firespout (adds to the 3cc for CB) and then swing with Goyf/Factory/Nought. Just a thought though, completely untested.

[e=mc^2]

I have a question for those who play the Ur version with Magus of the Moon in the board. Do you guys take out standstill when you bring the Magus in? Magus seems like it would not be too great for the standstill game. You would have to wait to get a dude down or a Top or something before you played Standstill.

[whienot]

The matches where Magus rocks Standstill sucks anyway (Landstill/Lands/Eternal Garden), which makes for an easy swap.

As for Team America, Tombstone & 3c Thresh... tough call. From your list above I would -1 Standstill, -1 Trinket Mage, +2 Magus. The Counterbalance count can probably be lowered in the Tombstone matchup.

[Concallesco]

I've been trying out this deck on MWS, both Ur and Ugr (and Ubr with confidants, although I think that was dismissed a while back in this thread), and to be sure, most opponents were scrubby and all, but even when they were good players, this deck proved to be pretty incredible. Props to Rood and all of you crazy creative people.

Is there anything that this deck is legitimately afraid of? Or have I just been fairly lucky in my MWS testing, and not actually encountered much in the way of tough matchups?

[whienot]

The Rock is probably the worst matchup. Deed, EE, Vindicate, Stp, big dudes, & discard. It's not unwinnable, but very tough.

After that, Landstill and Countertop decks can give you fits. Grips/REB help against Counterbalace post board, with REB helping to fight through counters.

Moon effects go along way in shutting off The Rock's removal as well as hurting Landstill.