[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[mossivo1986]

I dunno. I've only played 43 lands vs Landstill once, and I was on the Lands side of the matchup. I got my Loams Extirpated, and then he had more removal than I had manlands and I just lost horribly. It was also painfully boring. YMMV.

So since theres about a foot of snow on the ground I invite anyone for some playtesting today. My aim is mossivo1986. feel free to im me.

[rsaunder]

I've personally never won a match with landstill aginst 43land. I've pulled out games mostly due to bad luck on their part (manascrew of some sort) and due to getting wasteland+crucible online before they could do anything about it alongside graveyard removal. That was back when I was still running furnace though it would still certainly work with relic (waste, remove. next turn, recur waste and remove). All in all, a matchup I'm glad i don't see much of.

[mossivo1986]

I've personally never won a match with landstill aginst 43land. I've pulled out games mostly due to bad luck on their part (manascrew of some sort) and due to getting wasteland+crucible online before they could do anything about it alongside graveyard removal. That was back when I was still running furnace though it would still certainly work with relic (waste, remove. next turn, recur waste and remove). All in all, a matchup I'm glad i don't see much of.

yeah I agree, its too bad we dont have like an auto win in the sb like painters servent grindstone or something.

[mossivo1986]

whos going to gp chicago in march? We have to start talking about possible meta games and what not. Wheres taco snape and dif when I need them agh!!.

Anyways I have no idea what to expect.

some people are saying ichorid, but that doesn't make much sense to me at all with relic being soo good, but it does race TA and I think it can handle dreadstill as well.

[rockout]

Team America, Dreadstill, Thresh, Combo, Goyf Sligh, Goblins and Me playing Landstill.

[rsaunder]

I've been saying this everywhere: Ichorid will show up. It's easy to play and easily ported, which is important for a GP. Especially when it's in the midwest which is prime Vintage territory.

Also, I plan on attending.

[mossivo1986]

I've been saying this everywhere: Ichorid will show up. It's easy to play and easily ported, which is important for a GP. Especially when it's in the midwest which is prime Vintage territory.

Also, I plan on attending.

Ok so with that said I think these will be present.

Dreadstill
TA
RDW "Ive been seeing it piloted alot in michigan lately"
Goblins. The last major tourney I played in there were countless goblins.
Also something tells me that Dstompy is going to be played pretty heavily.

also if your right, I need to play against ichorid. Something tells me its going to be not a fun ride.

[rsaunder]

also if your right, I need to play against ichorid. Something tells me its going to be not a fun ride.

It's one of those matchups that might be better served by taking a loss and getting food. Having a deed/EE@0 prevents combo shennagins (wasting your own mishra's is pretty tech if you play waste), but ichorids themselvs are a bitch. Play relic, try to take out 1 or 2, STP them, basically remove the ichorids. It's not a fun matchup.

[rockout]

The way I see this GP is build a sideboard that fights every bad match-up you can think of. We'll obviously need Graveyard, Combo, LD, and Burn/Aggro.

Ajani and Plague = Burn/Aggro
Runed Halo and Meddling Mage = Combo
LD = You have to be running Crucible because Team America will show up in force.
Relic = Graveyard Hate that Cantrips

Do we need BEB effects or can we just pray to god we don't face burn more than once on day 1? Start brainstorming people. We should all be running enough basics and eternal dragons to get out from under DS moon effects.

[mossivo1986]

The way I see this GP is build a sideboard that fights every bad match-up you can think of. We'll obviously need Graveyard, Combo, LD, and Burn/Aggro.

Ajani and Plague = Burn/Aggro
Runed Halo and Meddling Mage = Combo
LD = You have to be running Crucible because Team America will show up in force.
Relic = Graveyard Hate that Cantrips

Do we need BEB effects or can we just pray to god we don't face burn more than once on day 1? Start brainstorming people. We should all be running enough basics and eternal dragons to get out from under DS moon effects.

keep in mind that we can go x-2 so lets do some testing guys. Im me mossivo1986 on aim

[rsaunder]

Okay, so are you guys thinking UW w/ wasteland+crucible, or perhaps something else? Green splash for Monestary+Grip+EE@3+LFtL? UWb sounds weak, for some reason.

I think burn's not gonna be huge, at least after round 3/4 since all of the scrubs will be dropping at that point. Besides, counterbalance wrecks them.

If I were running straight UW, I think I'd probably go 3xWaste+Crucible MB with a SB of:

4 BEB
2 Ajani
3 Meddling Mage
3 Runed Halo
3 Divert

That should be plenty nasty against red jank (zoo, gobbos, minimal burn), combo, and TA (divert is SVJ). The MB should be able to handle control variants.

[bigbear102]

Should Divert be Disrupt? It seems like Sinkhole would be the best target for Divert, and TA already can run on two lands, so it wouldn't be too huge to hit their land.

Disrupt seems like it would be useful in a lot more matchups also, countering more spells. It also gives you the cantrip effect even if they can pay for it which will put you farther ahead against aggro control like TA and stuff like burn.

[Hitman82]

I don't think Ichorid will be played in large numbers because Goblins should be out in force.

Landstill-esque decks will probably be floating around but the successful ones won't be regular builds because they're not versatile enough. Bardo's latest list looks like an excellent variant to bring to the GP because it doesn't have many terrible matchups. It looks like the best, versatile spells in Legacy thrown together in one deck. Control decks that don't savagely attack resources will be hard pressed to be relevant in a relatively wide open field. You would need to either be very generic and versatile across the board or just attack the mana so opponent's spells won't be able to be cast in the first place.

It should be safe to assume that Goblins, Threshold and various combo builds will form the majority of the GP metagame. Threshold is the most versatile and generally considered the best "control" deck in the format. Goblins is generally considered the best aggro deck. The new Elves lists could be strong and ANT will be played because of it's broken factor. While Landstill should beat these decks, the hard match-ups will be early on in the swiss where you face Burn, Goyf/Sligh and the like. If you're deck isn't versatile enough to get through the early matches, you could very well not even get to the good match-ups later on.

I think the real techy deck choices will be Magus of the Moon-based decks, like Painter and Dragon Stompy. They can just attack the mana and let you lose to your own deck construction. While they may not be objectively the strongest decks, they should fare well in a wide open field because they can largely ignore the idea of an unwinnable match-up due to the nature of their deck's primary goals. Mana superiority is better than card advantage and mana efficiency. If you can't cast your cards in the first place, who cares if you're playing great cards?

I would make my card choices based on these considerations. I think clunky, expensive cards will not be the best at the March GP. Ichorid should be blown out of the water in the early swiss and versatile, mana efficient decks with the above strategies in mind should come out on top at the end of the day.

As an aside, I don't expect Dreadstill to do well at the GP. I'm actually surprised it's done as well as it has. The deck is a two-for-one magnet. Dreadnought is trumped by E.E., Swords, Smother, Threads......fill in the blank and Factory is equally vulnerable to Pithing Needle, Wasteland, Back to Basics, Magus of the Moon, etc. I think Dreadstill is a niche deck that does well in a smaller, local setting, more akin to traditional Legacy tournaments. The GP shouldn't resemble that.

[mossivo1986]

Okay, so are you guys thinking UW w/ wasteland+crucible, or perhaps something else? Green splash for Monestary+Grip+EE@3+LFtL? UWb sounds weak, for some reason.

I think burn's not gonna be huge, at least after round 3/4 since all of the scrubs will be dropping at that point. Besides, counterbalance wrecks them.

If I were running straight UW, I think I'd probably go 3xWaste+Crucible MB with a SB of:

4 BEB
2 Ajani
3 Meddling Mage
3 Runed Halo
3 Divert


That should be plenty nasty against red jank (zoo, gobbos, minimal burn), combo, and TA (divert is SVJ). The MB should be able to handle control variants.

I'd probobly do it something like this:

// Lands
1 [JU] Nantuko Monastery
2 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [B] Tropical Island
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [MM] Dust Bowl
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
4 [B] Tundra
1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
2 [UNH] Plains
1 [UNH] Forest
4 [UNH] Island
1 [B] Savannah

// Creatures
1 [SC] Eternal Dragon
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant

// Spells
2[6E] Enlightened Tutor
2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
4 [OD] Standstill
1 [RAV] Life from the Loam
2 [B] Wrath of God
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
2 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [LRW] Ponder
4 [IA] Brainstorm
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
4 [B] Swords to Plowshares
1 [TE] Humility
1 [chk] Sensei's devining top

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [TSB] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 [PS] Meddling Mage
SB: 2 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 2 [LRW] Ajani Goldmane
SB: 1 [SHM] Runed Halo
SB: 2 [B] Blue Elemental Blast
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist

Should Divert be Disrupt? It seems like Sinkhole would be the best target for Divert, and TA already can run on two lands, so it wouldn't be too huge to hit their land.

Disrupt seems like it would be useful in a lot more matchups also, countering more spells. It also gives you the cantrip effect even if they can pay for it which will put you farther ahead against aggro control like TA and stuff like burn.

I dont know if disrupt is worth landstills time honestly. Spell snare fills disrupts slot pretty handily

[rockout]

Disrupt is counter unless they pay 1 mana. I'd rather run a blast effect or Divert over Disrupt. Divert changes a burn spell into a possible 2 for 1 for a singular blue mana. Divert also have the nice bluff effect similar to stifle where once your opponent sees it he'll have it in the back of his mind each turn when you leave one blue open.

All in all, I'd run Blue Elemental Blast. It's a counter and another targeted kill spell.

[Rood]

As an aside, I don't expect Dreadstill to do well at the GP. I'm actually surprised it's done as well as it has. The deck is a two-for-one magnet. Dreadnought is trumped by E.E., Swords, Smother, Threads......fill in the blank and Factory is equally vulnerable to Pithing Needle, Wasteland, Back to Basics, Magus of the Moon, etc. I think Dreadstill is a niche deck that does well in a smaller, local setting, more akin to traditional Legacy tournaments. The GP shouldn't resemble that.

Very surprising indeed. It's only won two of the biggest tournaments so far this year, but why should you expect it to do well at this right? If your oponent is playing Shatter Dreadstill can never win...2 for 1'd all day.

[mossivo1986]

hardy har har! I love the sarcasm.

Anyways uwb is the best choice for landstill both because of its resiliancy to stifle and wasteland and the ability to still mantain its control early enough in the game to stay in it.

The problem with the other versions 4 c 2 c ect, is their lack of window in the early game. you cant rely on having swords and force in every opening 7 so you need additional draw to get to these cards as well as your land drops ect. This is why Dif and others have preached ponder soo heavily. I wasn't a believer at first, but then again I didn't buy into dustbowl until the last tourney I played in where it basicly won me 3 matches "the mirror, dstompy, and ug tri." I urge you all to play ponder as it is amazing.

Also the wish board for pate and pulse make it win games more often then not. I'm sticking with uwb_wish_still and ill see you all in chicago :)

[ChiiMagic]

If people really start to pick up Team America in my area I think Teferi's Response would be the way to go. I live in a play in the Chicago metagame regularly, and have played Team America at least once in the last 3 tournaments that I've participated in, however I don't think it actually needs its own sideboard slot. I've been beating it pretty regularly with mediocre draws. It only has 8 threats in the deck, so the key is to nuke them as they come out, and their mana disruption will not get them there against a Landstill deck. Let them stifle your fetches and waste whatever the hell they want because we play extremely land heavy decks. STP the tombstalkers and let the Goyfs get mopped up by EE. The only time you should have to expend FOW or any permission should be to make sure your removal gets through. You NEED the STP on tombstalker to resolve, and the EE on goyf cannot be allowed to be stifled. i think if you guys try these approaches you'll have much more success against that deck.

[rockout]

I agree with you Chill. TA doesn't run enough threats and we run more than enough removal to deal. An obvious god draw of t1 thoughtseize, t2 sinkhole, t3 sinkhole/wasteland and drop tombstalker can make for tough times. But, most of the time it's not that bad to drop lands and answer the threats as they come.

[ChiiMagic]

Glad we're on the same page. For the GP I don't think I will really be changing my maindeck or SB at all, simply because I think I have found the correct amount of cards I want for any larger event. This is the same SB i ran when I top 8ed that legacy event at GP Indy, the one for like 40 duals or something if anyone remember that.

4 Meddling Mage
4 Red Elemental Blast
4 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nevinyrral's Disk

The Meddling Mages are by far my favorite card to bring in the SB. i bring them in against a variety of decks, namely loam decks, belcher, high tide, ANT, but also against team america or any deck I like to call BG poop. Naming pernicious deed or tombstalker is pretty good after they board out their removal.
The Red Elemental Blasts are RIDICULOUS. I know many of you are not playing Red, but if you are there is no better feeling than blasting a FOW with a one mana spell.
The Blue Elemental Blasts are also amazing against goblins, loam, belcher, and random sly decks.
The crypts are REALLY good in the mirror. They help to break crucible fights, kill loam decks, ichorid, stax.
I run Engineered Explosives in the main, but sometimes they need to be backed up by something that cannot be stifled, so the Nevi Disk does a good job of breaking through counterbalances and killing gofys and mongoose, but most of all the selling point on disk for me was the rise of Dragon Stompy. No better way to spend a billion red mana than to cast Disk. Also, I run Academy Ruins in my deck, so all the aforementioned artifacts are up for recycling.