Has anybody a list of a consistent monored gobos???
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
4 Lackey
4 Piley
3 Siege Gang
4 Fanatic
3 Gempalm
1 Stingscourger
4 Warchief
1 Tinkerer
4 Vial
16 Mountain
4 Wasteland
4 Port
The land count is high and I like that. I'm currently going back and forth between Siege Gang Commander #4, Gempalm#3 and #4, Tinkerer #1 and Stingscourger #2.
Hope it helps.
Shouldn't blood moon go in main deck??
Would you play any copy of mutavault??
I have considered Mutavault but Goblins is way too mana intensive, you are basically never using your mana and you don't want to risk losing the Mutavault when you activate it to a removal spell.Originally Posted by GoldenCid
Blood Moon seems good as a sideboard card I guess, but we don't have much trouble with the decks Blood Moon is particulary good against. Landstill, ITF, 4C Thresh etc.
fine, I give up, you sir are the master of getting jank over priced cards outside of ebay. at double the time, double the price, cool. Im glad you can speak for every foreign person in every foreign country and everyone in those places always has equal access to all playsets of all cards ever printed all the time.
so feel free to play suboptimal decks, against other suboptimal players playing their suboptimal decks in suboptimal tournaments and in the end consider yourself a winner for placing anywhere in the top 8. good luck with that.
Didn't want to get into the discussion, but I live in Italy, and never had any problem getting cards through Ebay or other means. I never played sub-optimal decks and found good gountlets in the tournaments I played. Actually, I'm buying cards at fair prices because of a low dollar value. The only card I had problems with buying was a Moat (which was too high priced to buy at the event) but I guess Italian Legend Moats are also cheaper than English Legends Moat. Access to cards is not a reason, at least not for legacy.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
Your only way to remove things is gempalm (aside from the anti-synergistic fanatic), so I would recomend running relics MB to shrink goyfs/stall Tombstalkers, or 4 mutavaults to increase your incinerator's power. Without the edicts, you will often find your goblin army starring down an early goyf and mucking up your aggro plan. (keep in mind incinerator will be in the bin when checking an incinerated goyf's P/T) I personally like:
4 vial
4 relic
4 lackey
4 Driver
1 Stingscourger
1 Tinkerer
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Incinerator
4 Ringleader
3 Siege-gang
4 waste
4 mutavault
15 mountain
SB:
4 king (only way in RR of 'dealing' with plague)
4 magus of the moon (not a goblin, but hot through vial when your opponent is tapped out)
4 chalice (pretend to have a shot against combo)
3 smash to smitherines (vs jitte, combo, stacks. Tinkerer doesnt usually solve active jitte, and 3 damage can be a win against an overzealous ANT who doesn't chant goblins... this could obv be 3 fanatics or 3 tinkerers if you expect more ichorid/dreadnaughts in your meta)
Fanatics come out for relics as your good opening plays other than vial and lackey... as fanatic basicly kills bobs, grims, and RFGs bridges nowadays.
True, but automatically mean you will lose that game. In fact, you don't care about whatever your opponent has on board as long as you can keep him on defense. In the long game you will drag it out with your Siege-Gang and Ringleaders anyway.Without the edicts, you will often find your goblin army starring down an early goyf and mucking up your aggro plan.
Rishadan Port and Wasteland are very synergystic as they can screw someone out of mana. But that is not the purpose, I am trying to gain tempo by playing Port and Waste and thus additional attack phases and additional counters on Vial. Mutavault + Incinerator is cute though, as a Mutavault can probably kill a Goyf on it's own with the help of Incinerator. But I won't drop the Ports, I love them too much. Their second ability has won me so many games, it's not even funny, although I'm not sure all those games can be attributed to Port. They did make winning a lot easier though.
Relic seems kind of hit or miss, I don't know. It's either complete garbage or it wins you the game. It lacks synergy with Warchief, Piledriver, Ringleader, Incinerator and Vial like Fanatic has. I personally think Fanatic is pretty good, but if you are expecting to play Threshold every round than by all means just play Relic but I see no point in playing Mono Red in that kind of metagame. I am very happy with the Relics in the sideboard, and they come in a lot of the time and usually I board Fanatics out for Relic so I can understand your decision. You shouldn't disrespect Fanatic as it does a lot more than just remove Bridges and kill Confidant, it screws up the combat step and sometimes even trades 2 for 1. Additionally, Fanatic is awesome against our arch enemy Jitte as you can chump and then sac it before dmg is on the stack, giving you more time to find an out. Other times they are just the last points of damage you lack.
I could see taking out one Fanatic for the second Stingscourger though. By the way, Fanatic and Incinerator do not have anti synergy, you cycle Incinerator then sac Fanatic, be enough to kill a Goyf that is 3/4 (instant, land, creature), probably the most common size in the first few turns.
I've been wanting to say this for a long time now, but I strongly feel that Goblins has a shot against combo. Particulary against TES, Waste and Port just screw up their mana especially if you get a Chalice down. I think you can expect to win 1 game every match by mana disruption and a great draw and you just hope they mulligan into oblivion or fizzle one of the other 2 games. Sure, I'm not pretending we have a favorable matchup but it's not unwinnable by any means. Another thing we got going is that combo players will underestimate Goblins and just go on auto pilot. I've seen tons of combo players screw up because they thought they had a bye anyway.
Goblin King is not necessary. It sucks balls actually. Nobody plays Plague and your creatures will still die to double Plague unless you have 2. You can beat one Plague on the back of Chief/Piley.
I can see Magus having some merits but by the time we reach three mana and can resolve a 3CC spell and our opponent is not ahead by a ton, Goblins can drag it to the long game and bury our opponent under card advantage anyway. Admittedly, Magus locks up the games you were ahead, but he doesn't help much when you are behind on board position. He is great against Landstill and ITF though, definately. He seems good against TA and UGW Thresh but I'm not sure he comes down early enough, if you even manage to resolve it at all, to matter. Perhaps you can expand on this choice?
I play Goons as plague solution. They work great and you also board them in the Thresh matchup.
Here's my sb:
3 Goon
4 Pyrokinesis
4 Relic
1 Tinkerer
3 Price of Progress
MonoRed has actually other solutions to plague which are better than King: Price of Progress, Patron of the Akki, Fledgling Dragon, Door of destinies.
Currently Playing: Nourishing Lich.Deck
Current Record: 1-83-2
I never intented to say to use Null Rod over CotV. I think they should be used in conjunction. CotV gives you enough time to set Null Rod up.ANT, for instance, can easily resolve Ad Nausea, bounce something, then win. But 2 bounce spells is dificult for them. I just don't know if that is our best anweser. But again: CotV is a must!
GreenOne: I have played Goon also, before I could afford changing to Rb version. I realize that the Rb version does not have an anweser to Plague either, so I just choose to ignore, and try to race them.
Red can also just use Rishadan Port as a solution to Engineered Plague. Or just ignore Plague as little as it's being run these days. Heck, Goblins builds were getting away with ignoring it back in the heyday of Plaguemania. Certainly just ignoring the card is a much more viable strategy now that a lot of decks with black aren't even packing Plagues, and are packing less than four when they do?
But like, seriously? Is anything in DTB running a full set of Plagues? Is anything but a few 4C Landstill builds running Plagues at all?
I think mad auntie is actually quite playable as a semi-solution to plague, and I run squads main which can remove any further plagues from the deck (and conveniently all three copies of Tendrils the now burning wish-less ANT decks run.)
@ relic being 'hit or miss':
See the merfolk thread for further discussion, but it is never 'miss' save for lowering the number of goblins in the deck for ringleader flips. (~2.3 -> ~2.1 goblins per 'leader) It cantrips if it is ever dead, and it harms the following decks:
+anything playing goyf, mono red goblins biggest problem
+anything playing tombstalker
+loam
+rock decks
+ichorid
+igg loop if you've done enough damage to ANT early game
+stacks decks
+survival deck
+(?reanimator?)
+other rogue decks or any decks reliant on the graveyard
Did I mention it cantrips and solves your biggest, most common problem?
EDIT: I am only advocating MD relics in mono red and RG builds. IMO, for builds with black, warren wierding is a superior choice to solve problem threats, (read- too large for incinerator to handle- goyf, TS, terravore, dreadnaught, ect) and can be tutored/ringleader'ed. (and wort'ed, if you play her) I am not saying NOT to run relics MB in black builds, just that it is necessary to have some way to deal with the aforementioned creatures in lists without black. I would probably run leylines and 0-2 relics SB in a black build, depending on the meta. (more relics if thresh/TA is more prevelant, more leylines if loam/ichorid is more prevalent.)
Last edited by Media314r8; 01-07-2009 at 11:39 AM.
I too play Mad Auntie (1 MD), but the deal is, 2 Plagues are lethal the same way. Maybe with black, Earwigs might be a very good option. I'm looking foward playing 2 Earwigs also, but only have one so, let's see...
As for relic, after reading Media314r8 arguments, has enyone ever tryed 2-3 Relics maindeck? It does seems like a good idea...
I've actually won in a tournament against a Ugb thresh deck packing a set of plagues in the board. (G1 and G3) Game three he hits turn three, turn four plagues, and I land a wort, who recurs my edicts to wipe his board. I then fear/prowl out a squad to take the last two plagues from his deck and chump his goyfs with squads/ edict myself when he doesn't attack to clear the tombstalkers (only flyers) out of his deck. Squad is the god-damns, I put three in my main when they were first printed, (dropped down to 1 'driver, I know, I know. The Rb goblins is a deck about inevitibility, not reckless aggression in the age of goyf) and I've never looked back. They really have been THAT GOOD. Turn one lackey -> warchief/forgtosser (I run a 3/2 split) and prowl squad is IMO better than lackey into SGC. Knowing the contents of your opponent's deck (and thus how to board as well as how they will likely board) plus taking about 1/4 of their win conditions/deeds/plagues/scary stuff is invaluable. Singlehandedly winning vs ANT with just one prowl is gravy, and squad has a body big enough to trade with goyf, and is approx the size of a mid-game driver when attacking. (while being smother and snuff out proof)
Goblin Piledriver is pretty awesome allowing to win out of nowhere. Pro blue is also a very good ability, I like them. They allow you to sometimes just win very quickly and pull wins out of nowhere.
That said, I was under the impression that most combo players run TES but a quick look on deckcheck revealed that most play Fetchland ANT instead. So that probably means I will be going back to RB or RBG actually. To clarify, TES plays Burning Wish so Earwig Squad is useless against them, ANT plays 2 or 3 copies of Tendrills so Earwig Squad spells GG.
However, I should give your list a whirl before dismissing it as you do make solid points for your decisions. It's very hard to judge without having played both decks, so if you could PM me your list I would be grateful.
-Mantis.
I like the idea of cutting just 1 and no more piledriver in favor of an earwing squad if we are playing a RB version. I think that the power of squad allows us deal better with the lack of green in our deck.
I really, really love the squad, it's a complete house most of the time. However, getting rid of so many piledrivers is just nuts, IMO.
Not alot to say besides that piledrivers often come down unexpectedly for just 1 red mana and swing for 9 or something the same turn, and if you can drop down an unexpected pair of them you're just a ninja.
Hello friend.
A Goblin Ninja, no less. Ah, MajorMUD, how I miss you so.
I've been running Squad in the sideboard. There's a lot of matchups where munching on your opponent's deck really just isn't all that relevant, but some where it completely is.
I run a singleton in the sideboard as well, and none main. A card which isn't relevant in alot of situations (being unable to prowl it, for instance) just doesn't deserve a maindeck spot.
It's still great though.
Hello friend.
I play rbg goblins and was wondering why don't people play chrome mox and mox diamond in the deck to make it faster?
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