[OLD] UGr Threshold

[Irish_Mafia]

Has any one tested with UGR threshold tempo againts Team America and Dreadstill ? thoughts ?

I lost to UGR thresh playing Dreadstill 0-2, But considering UGR thresh took the top 2 spots at winter wonderland I think it should be a decent match up.

[Whit3 Ghost]

I play the ponder, unless I'm assuming my opponent is very inexperienced. He will never use his first turn fetch while you have an untapped island anyways, and then you just skipped a turn for noting. The ponder will provide your second land drop (possibly a wasteland for his first land), free counters, or a mongoose to play turn 2, then still with a mana open.

Right, but now that you've tapped out, they will absolutely burn any fetches they have as soon as they can. Those fetches will also go for basics, which is doubly annoying.

[Waikiki]

I'd always stick with stifle mana open. If they crack it. I can have a smile on my face. If they don't, means I can get another turn without them doing anything.

[Serbitar]

Why do people play ye olde Blasts over Pyroblast and Hydroblast? The fact that Pyroblast and Hydroblast can target permanents that aren't a specific color should make them strictly better since you can get an advantage when facing random decks with cards that dies when they get targeted. What is the advantage of running the old blasts? I just don't get it.

The old blasts can't be misdirected (the blue ones against the blue target changers, the red ones against the red targed changers) against random decks. Both scenarios never happen though - and I see the misdirection scenario as more likely than the Makeshift Mannequin one.

[Henrik]

Two players shared the top 2 in this tournament
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...&postcount=117
...both playing UGr tempo thresh. YAY =)

Their sideboards are however rather different from mine, playing 4 submerge. That it is useful against for example team america is not that hard to figure out, but in what other matchups is it useful? There must be good reasons to develop such a SB, and by doing so, in my opinion neglecting other important matchups.

I would love to hear the opinions from the players that was in the top 2, if they are present here in this thread.

[Adan]

Their sideboards are however rather different from mine, playing 4 submerge. That it is useful against for example team america is not that hard to figure out, but in what other matchups is it useful?

AggroLoamAggroLoamAggroLoamAggroLoamAggroLoamAggroLoamAggroLoam.

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BROKEN.

And the Mirrormatch.

There must be good reasons to develop such a SB, and by doing so, in my opinion neglecting other important matchups.

Maybe they included 4 Submerge because it's good against AggroLoam, Team America and the Mirrormatch. I was complaining at goobafish several times about how pissed I am for everyone playing Aggroloam here at out monthly Hassloch tournaments (and even brain-amputated people stealing Top2s with it). And well, this is now my motivation to give that deck another try after having failed with it hard.

[Henrik]

DAH!
Obviously =)
Thanks for the heads up. It's a neat trick.

[spirit of the wretch]

how pissed I am for everyone playing Aggroloam here at out monthly Hassloch tournaments (and even brain-amputated people stealing Top2s with it)

A little off topic but from the bottom of my heart: QFMFT!

A little more on topic: PoP should also be good, but Submerge is way more flexible.

[Shugyosha]

but in what other matchups is it useful?

Every deck that plays green and creatures basically, duh. Except maybe Goblins with G splash. As you will notice most good decks with creatures (that are not lands) in it play green for Tarmogoyf.
We are playing Submerge since mid-december in the board and it is really amazing. Although the fetch trick won't happen too often the tempo advantage is often sufficient.

Seeing today that Phan and Caplan also play it was really cool. But Disrupt is a strange choice I think. With Creaturebounce and only one Krosan Grip I would rather play Counterspell than Disrupt, especially as the removal in Legacy is too cheap to get countered by Disrupt that often. Ok Stifle/Waste helps but I doubt that Disrupt is a better SB card that Hydroblasts or more Grips/Grudge.

[aTn]

With Creaturebounce and only one Krosan Grip I would rather play Counterspell than Disrupt, especially as the removal in Legacy is too cheap to get countered by Disrupt that often. Ok Stifle/Waste helps but I doubt that Disrupt is a better SB card that Hydroblasts or more Grips/Grudge.

I think Disrupt was there to win counterwars (vs control in particular) and mostly to help against combo. Then again, I might be dead wrong.... Anyhow, it generates CA when successfull and is nice with Daze... it actually looks good against TA. I'm not saying the card is a bomb, but it's not that bad.

[Enigma]

In a metagame with a lot of Sinkholes, Swords, Duress, Thoughtseizes, Orim's chant... I would prefer Divert as a side option.

[aTn]

In a metagame with a lot of Sinkholes, Swords, Duress, Thoughtseizes, Orim's chant... I would prefer Divert as a side option.

Totally. Divert was frequently played in Threshold sideboards when Deadguy ale was the brand new thing. My personal favorite was Diverting Hymn to Tourach. Anyhow, Divert is actually better in counterwars - making FoW, CSpell, etc. target Divert instead of a key spell you're trying to push through. I guess it might be time to give it a try again. It's also harder to play around for you opponent than Daze or Disrupt.

[Adan]

The key thing is that Disrupt cantrips, Divert doesn't.

Disrupt is such a house against Team America as it actually slows your opponent's disruption down, making it possible to you to disrupt him back with Wasteland-Stifle, maintaining the "brokeness" of Disrupt and Daze as he will then have problems with his manaresources as well.

Another point about Disrupt is the Ichorid matchup. It's the same like REB, I is not obvious first, but the thing is that you must be able to counter every 1st Turn discard outlet they play in order to win that.
Disrupt now takes care of Breakthrough and Careful Study, others like Putrid Imp and LED have to be FoW'ed or Daze'd.
Again, the difference between Disrupt and REB here is : Disrupt draws a card.

But against TA, I also think Divert is cool, but the only spells you can divert are Thoughtseize and Sinkhole.

Swords to Plowshares are a reason, yes. Duress? Not! Orim's Chant? Absolutely, but this card will most likely see play in combodecks which you will rape anyway as you are most likely hacking on their resources anyway, making Disrupt strong again.
A lot of opponents also miscalculate a lot when they suddenly see multiple Daze-effects (Disrupt & Daze).

[smoky squirrel]

Divert does not do anything against Duress, since that says 'Target opponent'. In a tempo/mana denial deck like Canadian Thrash I think Disrupt works better. During a counterwar or against an all-in combo deck, it is an anoying trump. Besides, it always draws a card, so you can target your own spell and use it as a cantrip.

EDIT: Adan says the same, but better

[Xeen]

Ok, i´m going to attend a ~100 competitor strong event this weekend.
In an unknown meta, but expecting lots of TA, Aggro Loam, and Aggro decks in general to what version of UGr Thresh (Canadian, Balanced) would you stick?

Or would you, this meta given, prefer to play UGw or something totally different?


Xeen

[Citrus-God]

Ok, i´m going to attend a ~100 competitor strong event this weekend.
In an unknown meta, but expecting lots of TA, Aggro Loam, and Aggro decks in general to what version of UGr Thresh (Canadian, Balanced) would you stick?

Or would you, this meta given, prefer to play UGw or something totally different?


Xeen

UGw works. UGr sucks in the mirror because of Lightning Bolts and such. Post-board your game probably looks better; REBs are amazing. Personally I'd say play DIF's list or 5c Threshold.

[Adan]

5c Threshold.

->

In an unknown meta, but expecting lots of TA, Aggro Loam, and Aggro decks in general

NOT!

City = pain, Thoughtseize = more pain.

Manabase = the suck against TA and AggroLoam.

[Citrus-God]

->



NOT!

City = pain, Thoughtseize = more pain.

Manabase = the suck against TA and AggroLoam.

How does the mana base suck against TA now? Oh yeah, it runs City of Brass, how could I forget? It's not like having 14 ways to access Green, 14 ways to access White, 18 ways to access Blue, 13 ways to access Black and 13 ways to access Red is going to screw you over against TA! Especially with 8 cantrips!

Pain isn't a concern if you spent time practicing 5c Thresh. Thoughtseize should delay most threats anyway. The reason for running 5c Thresh isn't because of the Sideboard, sadly, it's because of maindeck Thoughtseize in combination with Swords to Plowshares and Mystic Enforcers.

[spirit of the wretch]

Ok, i´m going to attend a ~100 competitor strong event this weekend.
In an unknown meta, but expecting lots of TA, Aggro Loam, and Aggro decks in general to what version of UGr Thresh (Canadian, Balanced) would you stick?

Or would you, this meta given, prefer to play UGw or something totally different?


Xeen

Against TA and Aggro Loam Thresh/w is way better than Thresh/r simply because of the Swords. Against Aggro the red variant is better because of the SB Pyroclasms.
Didn't help all that much, did it =)
I would never play the 5C list, if you expect a lot of TA and Aggro Loam, they'll just stomp your manabase (Wasteland recursion, Stifle, Sinkhole...) the hard way!
In an unknown metagame the SPOD list of Thresh/w (the one Adan and Der imaginäre Freund are playing) is probably the best.

[Citrus-God]

I would never play the 5C list, if you expect a lot of TA and Aggro Loam, they'll just stomp your manabase (Wasteland recursion, Stifle, Sinkhole...) the hard way!

Those decks stomp your face in anyway. The fact that those are bad match ups makes the claim that 5c Thresh sucks is none unique; it applies to UGw as well.